Ukraine crisis: 'Russia has launched a great war'...

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Doing fine without help? How do you figure since Russian equipment and Russian soldiers are the only thing keeping the Rebellion going.

The Russian soldiers are not operating under the Russian Army... Big difference. They have volunteered to fight alongside the rebels and the rebels have welcomed them with open arms.

That does not matter when the Russian government allows its soldiers to go on vacation to a war zone in Ukraine with their Russian issued equipment. Members of a foreign military don't go on vacation into a sovereign nation while bringing along their equipment unless its with the approval of their commanders. Since we are dealing with a separate sovereign nation that would need to be approved at the top.

Putin is not going to give the impression he has no control over his military. Secondly I doubt Russian soldiers would be let off the hook if they took this action without permission.

Maybe we should ask the dead Russian soldiers buried in secret what they think is going on.

www.inquisitr.com...

Russia is threatening to use nuclear weapons if Ukrainian forces continue to fight pro-Russia separatists, the Ukrainian Defense Minister is claiming.


On Monday, Defense Minister Valeriy Heltey wrote on his Facebook page that Russia is making threats of a nuclear attack against the country if the war continues.

“The Russian side has threatened on several occasions across unofficial channels that, in the case of continued resistance they are ready to use a tactical nuclear weapon against us,” Heletey wrote.

Thanks for the replies; it is interesting to read the different attitudes on what is supposedly going on. Propaganda is no doubt alive and well on both sides. I tend to think Putin will use covert assistance to get what he wants which is a divided Ukraine... If that doesn't work it is the next step that I would consider with some consternation.. I do agree if he wanted to roll in guns blazing he could and even he said Kiev would be his in two weeks if he did so.. But the response to that is something he no doubt has considered "not worth it" at this stage.

The conflict between Russia and Ukraine has escalated rapidly after more than 1,000 Russian troops poured across the border last week. Fighting has picked up between both sides, and there are reports that Russian troops massacred hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers who were trying to retreat.
Read more at www.inquisitr.com...

Either way things do not seem to be getting better..

originally posted by: AllSourceIntel

You might want to ask how it would look to Russia if our boys were there volunteering.

Well it's funny you mention that because

CIA Coupe D'etat

There is clear cut discrimination against Russians in Ukraine with public demands in Kiev that Russians be killed. According to Professor Boyle what happened in Kiev was a playbook coup d’état by the CIA. Victoria Nuland, the Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs, working with the US Ambassador, were instrumental in carrying out the coup d’état, as it has been proven they were working with “the brown shirts”: Svoboda, the right sector, the Bandera Nazis and skinheads.

It likely already happened.

a reply to: AllSourceIntel

Europe and the US have jihadis fighting Assad... and many of them are in IS as well (ok no army/veterans) but it's hard to stop it really.
If some people really want, it's pretty hard to stop it.

a reply to: 727Sky

I truly think the only reason Putin keeps mentioning nukes is he would lose a conventional war. Contrary to what some claim, the Russian military is still in a desperate state. Putin has announced several programs to bring its armed forces into the 21st century, with that projected completion date of around 2020.

Their ground forces are lacking, with only a few divisions (or whatever the Russian terms are for their unit structures) have been improved / upgraded and form what I am seeing those are the units that have been in the Ukraine border areas since this mess started.

Even then those units took casualties when they went on holiday to a war zone in Ukraine. Ironically the Russians / Pro Russians seem to think that civilian aircraft flying over the area is stupid because a war is on yet think nothing of foreigners taking their holiday in the same area.

Kiev has announced mandatory conscription again.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Doing fine without help? How do you figure since Russian equipment and Russian soldiers are the only thing keeping the Rebellion going.

The Russian soldiers are not operating under the Russian Army... Big difference. They have volunteered to fight alongside the rebels and the rebels have welcomed them with open arms. They are welcomed by Ukrainians, it's not an invasion.

False. Russian soldiers are being set there by the Russian Army. Mothers of these soldiers have asked about their sons, and Russia labeled the mothers "Foreign Agents".

a reply to: DarknStormy

I cant find it on you tube any more but I saw with my own eyes the video of the US State department official with the Ukranians selecting their ministers,and they thought Putin would sit back and do nothing?

a reply to: Xcathdra

It doesn't matter, are they operating under the Russian Army? If they were, we would of seen a Russian invasion by now and Kiev would of been taken 5-6 months ago. There would be no need to align with the rebels.

originally posted by: DarknStormy

originally posted by: AllSourceIntel

You might want to ask how it would look to Russia if our boys were there volunteering.

Well it's funny you mention that because

CIA Coupe D'etat

There is clear cut discrimination against Russians in Ukraine with public demands in Kiev that Russians be killed. According to Professor Boyle what happened in Kiev was a playbook coup d’état by the CIA. Victoria Nuland, the Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs, working with the US Ambassador, were instrumental in carrying out the coup d’état, as it has been proven they were working with “the brown shirts”: Svoboda, the right sector, the Bandera Nazis and skinheads.

It likely already happened.

I do not doubt we had covert operations in Ukraine early on in this entire situation. Ukraine has been on our radar to turn it against Russia and into a western country since the fall of the Soviet Union. I don't know if you have seen any of my posts on other threads, nor do I expect you to go searching for them, but I am of the school of thought that we or anyone else have no affair in Ukraine and their internal strife. That aside, I have debated points and case to each side of the issue, Occams can attest to this I believe and I think, hope, he would back me up that I ask questions and make points on each side to show neither is above the other and that both have dirty tricks and hands.

That aside, troops, whether under an official capacity or not, active duty volunteers on leave, is an entirely different matter. Russia would flip and be making the same claims we are if Ukrainian forces stated American active duty soldiers have come to our aid, to fight along side us and our cause while on vacation instead of going to party.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: Xcathdra

It doesn't matter, are they operating under the Russian Army? If they were, we would of seen a Russian invasion by now and Kiev would of been taken 5-6 months ago. There would be no need to align with the rebels.

We have seen a Russian invasion...

originally posted by: Plugin
a reply to: AllSourceIntel

Europe and the US have jihadis fighting Assad... and many of them are in IS as well (ok no army/veterans) but it's hard to stop it really.
If some people really want, it's pretty hard to stop it.

I am glad you edited and added before I replied as I was going to make that distinction. Still, we "don't have" we are lending support, those jihadis would be fighting whether we supported them or not. They may have taken a little longer to move from Libya to Syria and may have not lasted nearly as long...but they would have without us.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
False. Russian soldiers are being set there by the Russian Army. Mothers of these soldiers have asked about their sons, and Russia labeled the mothers "Foreign Agents".

Yeah the rebels don't deny Russian Blood Brothers are fighting alongside them.

"They [Russian volunteers] are among us, people of Donbass [Region, eastern Ukraine] because we are blood brothers,” said the Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Aleksandr Zakharchenko, in an interview to Russian media.

“There is no secret that among the volunteers from Russia there are many military men. They are fighting together with us because they understand that it’s their duty,” he added.

Brothers in Arms........

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: Xcathdra

It doesn't matter, are they operating under the Russian Army? If they were, we would of seen a Russian invasion by now and Kiev would of been taken 5-6 months ago. There would be no need to align with the rebels.

We have seen a Russian invasion...

We have seen a CIA Coupe D'Etat also.. What's your point? If the CIA didn't meddle in the first place we wouldn't be witnessing the crap going on in the Ukraine. It's none of their business and made it their own.

originally posted by: DarknStormy

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
False. Russian soldiers are being set there by the Russian Army. Mothers of these soldiers have asked about their sons, and Russia labeled the mothers "Foreign Agents".

Yeah the rebels don't deny Russian Blood Brothers are fighting alongside them.

"They [Russian volunteers] are among us, people of Donbass [Region, eastern Ukraine] because we are blood brothers,” said the Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Aleksandr Zakharchenko, in an interview to Russian media.

“There is no secret that among the volunteers from Russia there are many military men. They are fighting together with us because they understand that it’s their duty,” he added.

Brothers in Arms........

Except captured Russian soldiers say they did not come here as volunteers. The military sent them there. Mothers of these soldiers want to know where their sons are and the military has told them to shut up and if they talk about it there will be problems. Mothers who did not shut up were labeled "foreign agents". Mothers who want to know where their sons are being sent to die .. labeled foreign agents.

a reply to: 727Sky

Russia will not be bullied and Russia will not allow NATO and US rope to slowly strangle them at some point.

Red line is Ukraine. The Kiev Junta financed by western bankers can scream all they want.

a reply to: AllSourceIntel

Russia had 40000 troops on that border in April and did exersizes involving 160,000 the Nato Ready Reaction Force is 5000 men its no longer the cold war they have had billions of dollars of oil revenues to spend.

originally posted by: DarknStormy

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: Xcathdra

It doesn't matter, are they operating under the Russian Army? If they were, we would of seen a Russian invasion by now and Kiev would of been taken 5-6 months ago. There would be no need to align with the rebels.

We have seen a Russian invasion...

We have seen a CIA Coupe D'Etat also.. What's your point? If the CIA didn't meddle in the first place we wouldn't be witnessing the crap going on in the Ukraine. It's none of their business and made it their own.

Funny, I thought it was the Leader having troops kill civilians, and then fleeing the country after pilfering the coffers.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

The US got all the gold but I dont know how good they are at the protection racket game these days.

a reply to: AllSourceIntel

If the situation was reversed (Russia invaded and then the US came to the aid of Ukraine) I would be 100% with all the people against Russia.. But this is not the case and I cannot back something that started with operations from a foreign entity. So Russia to me have every right to protect their interests and if it means launching a counter towards the Western sponsored fascists in Kiev, so be it. I do not think you are wrong and neither do I feel anyone else is wrong.. We are all entitled to our point of view and mine leans towards Russia, it doesn't mean I am right though.

originally posted by: khnum
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

The US got all the gold but I dont know how good they are at the protection racket game these days.

Yeah ... and dentists make billions, like the former leader's Dentist Billionaire Son.