Can a Citizens Band Network Be Practical?

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: MarlinGrace

My dad used the same radio to talk skip all over the US in the days when radios were built not bought, and receiving was done with a VFO not a crystal.

Wow thats way back freq.

I'll settle for "whats your 20" as a measure of strength.

Does anyone know if the new digital wave bands used by police conflict with this CB dream after the fall?

The police stuff is FM and now encrypted with trunking for security somewhere in the 400 mhz area. Not at all a problem with CB. Hey for for all you old timers who remember the days of our dads on 23 channels, don't forget linears for some serious getting out. Remember the term walking on someone? With a 1K watt linear you could do some serious walking and talking. wow the memories.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

originally posted by: VoidHawk

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

Anyway, the two biggest drawbacks to CB that I can think of are limited range and the inability to leave a message. Unless you are both at your radios, you can't communicate.

Not a CB'r but know a little about radio and digital stuff. Assuming a reasonable signal to noise was available, would it not be possible using a laptop, to rig something up with an old modem? Send on one channel and recieve on another? That way you COULD leave messages.

Great idea! Track down some acoustic modems, a little Visual Basic programming, and you're in business!

Compressed text could be sent in the bat of an eye lid. Just think, a new FREE internet could be born

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
Your best bet is transparency and open sourcing, but we can't beat the masters of the secrecy, double agent, mole , and misdirection games. If the object is communication for aide, assistance, locationing, sharing, and distribution of information, you may go untargeted and unmolested, for a while. The moment they think you "may" become a threat or if your information or operation is no longer useful to them, well, I am sure the would find a way to terminate your signals.

Yeah, but when that time comes, they can pry my CB mic out of my cold, dead hands.

ETA: The open source concept was what I was aiming for by creating the MCBRN website. That will only last as long as the internet does, but maybe I can get something going locally before a communications blackout occurs.

originally posted by: VoidHawk

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

originally posted by: VoidHawk

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

Anyway, the two biggest drawbacks to CB that I can think of are limited range and the inability to leave a message. Unless you are both at your radios, you can't communicate.

Not a CB'r but know a little about radio and digital stuff. Assuming a reasonable signal to noise was available, would it not be possible using a laptop, to rig something up with an old modem? Send on one channel and recieve on another? That way you COULD leave messages.

Great idea! Track down some acoustic modems, a little Visual Basic programming, and you're in business!

Compressed text could be sent in the bat of an eye lid. Just think, a new FREE internet could be born

All that could be done fairly easily, but guys, come on, that wouldn't be legal. None of us would want to break any laws, would we?

This is the F.C.C. rule

95.412 (a) You may transmit two-way plain language communications without codes or coded messages.

and here is a bunch more

§95.413 (a) You must not use a CB station-
(1) In connection with activity that is against the law;
(2) To transmit obscene, indecent words or language;
(3) To interfere with other communications;
(4) To transmit one-way, except for emergencies, traveler assistance, brief tests, or voice paging;
(5) To advertise the sale of any goods or services;
(6) To transmit music, whistling, sound effects, etc.;
(7) To transmit any sound effect to attract attention;
(8) To transmit the word “MAYDAY” or other international distress signal, except when threatened by imminent danger and requesting immediate assistance;
(9) To communicate with anyone over 155.3 miles away;
(10) To advertise a political candidate or campaign;
(11) To communicate with stations in other countries.
(12) To transmit a false or deceptive communication.
(b) You must not transmit live or delayed rebroadcasts.
95.418 (a) You must at all times and on all channels, give
priority to emergency communications.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I didn't know its illegal! I'm in the uk

95.412 (a) You may transmit two-way plain language communications without codes or coded messages.

I'm thinking about VictorVonDoom's wish to be able to leave messages.

What about a beep with a precise frequency and duration at the start of each transmission? Its not coded, its just a beep!
If its not illegal it could be used to trigger a laptop.

ETA: Scrap that idea Modern computers can be voice operated, anyone wanting to leave a message could simply shout RECORD ME into the mic, speak their message then shout RECORD OFF.

There's always a way

a reply to: VoidHawk

Ah, from across the pond eh? I found a lot online about CB's in the UK, but I never checked your laws out.

Here is some more of our FCC rules about that.

§95.412 (CB Rule 12) What communications may be transmitted?

(a) You may use your CB station to transmit two-way plain language communications. Two-way plain language communications are communications without codes or coded messages. Operating signals such as “ten codes” are not considered codes or coded messages.

(b) You may use your CB station to transmit a tone signal only when the signal is used to make contact or to continue communications. (Examples of circuits using these signals are tone operated squelch and selective calling circuits.) If the signal is an audible tone, it must last no longer than 15 seconds at one time. If the signal is a subaudible tone, it may be transmitted continuously only as long as you are talking.


(c) You may use your CB station to transmit one-way communications (messages which are not intended to establish communications between two or more particular CB stations) only for emergency communications, traveler assistance, brief tests (radio checks) or voice paging.

That section (b) could hold some promise on skirting the encrypted signal "problem".

Tone Squelch - Is a generic name for many "Sub-audible tone systems". The principle is that a receiver will not allow any audio to be routed to the speaker (or repeater transmitter) unless it is accompanied by the appropriate sub-audible tone. (Also see: CTCSS, ETS and PL)

I may try using a 15 second Morse code message for the purpose of a selective signaling system, one at the front and one at the back of a verbal message, to identify the sending and receiving stations. Audible selective tone signals let the receiver station know if it is a message for them, rather than another receiver in the network, so using Morse code tones, or even acoustic modem noises, could potentially work if it is used in a selective signal system. I like Morse code because it is a tradition in 2-way communications and transparent, as anyone could decode it like a 10-code, and it can easily be converted to ascii codes and text.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Side Band is the word! One can trans/receive on SB/CB with a simple antron antenna and could talk the word over. In your car with whip and in the house running with antron and off 12volt. Plus SB is real good for local private channels relatively speaking private. Oh and a mod mod kit and Texas Star are good ideas. Both very easy to get and use.

About the 15 second Morse code signal to text idea.

I used a computer generated 1khz audio tone to transmit a 15 second Morse code message with complete accuracy using setting of 40 WPM, 3X Word Spacing, Weight = 3/1. The speed goes up to 50 words per minute, but it can get garbled at that speed with the free ware I'm using. I was able to get close to 40 characters, including spaces, in 15 seconds transmitting from a walkie talkie by my computer to the base station in the next room. It was just a test under the best conditions, but was flawless.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Side Band is the word! One can trans/receive on SB/CB with a simple antron antenna and could talk the word over. In your car with whip and in the house running with antron and off 12volt. Plus SB is real good for local private channels relatively speaking private. Oh and a mod mod kit and Texas Star are good ideas. Both very easy to get and use.

Yeah, frequency modulation at 12 watts radiated power beats 4 watts AM. My base is a old SSB, only 23 channels, but ch 16 is the traditional side band channel. The mobile is just AM unfortunately, I got another SSB that could be fixed though.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

My Mom (Rubbernecker) and I had a ball listening back in the 70's. I had a Cobra™ with a pole antenna and "pegged the needles" I could broadcast/receive for miles and miles and We would listen to the highway traffic of the truckers.

If the crap hits the fan then I'm "stuck, stuck" I've got My invalid MIL, a 15 year old Weimaraner who is unsteady on Her feet and another who has medical issues so slipping out w/3 hands of "Yin" staring Me in the face while in a State of Yin? Yeah, "No thanks"...

I'll go down with the ship, "no worries" returning from whence I came...

Thanks for the trip down 'Memory Lane' to feel as though I contributed as per the 'quid pro quo' of a "Message Board" I'd opine that the C.B. would be a FANTASTIC tool and if You've got like-minded friends in the area, I'd use the C.B. rather than a cell phone and if You branch it out correctly on a map You could create a 'network' that You can rely on.. The folks that plan for these emergencies, in My opinion rely on their cell phone and if Y'all think a "lineman for the county" will be out there during a crapstorm instead of 'beating feet' well, You might as well take My approach and "Welcome "it"...

Sorry I couldn't add more.

"Dirty Duck" KAD4505 (still remember My "handle" and "call letters"..)

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck

I may try using a 15 second Morse code message for the purpose of a selective signaling system, one at the front and one at the back of a verbal message, to identify the sending and receiving stations.

Those receiving could use that signal to trigger recording equipment. A laptop with a simple piece of software could do that easily.
Victor may get his wish

a reply to: JimNasium

Sorry that you feel stuck when a crisis may hit your area. I actually have a copy of my dad's licenses (he had two for some reason), they're in my archives but I think his last one was KAMH 6520 or 8520, the first number wasn't printed clearly on the license.

originally posted by: VoidHawk

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck

I may try using a 15 second Morse code message for the purpose of a selective signaling system, one at the front and one at the back of a verbal message, to identify the sending and receiving stations.

Those receiving could use that signal to trigger recording equipment. A laptop with a simple piece of software could do that easily.
Victor may get his wish

I had the same thought, something simpler than Morse code could be used, like a series of pure tones. Then your computer, using audio line in, would start recording your messages. But if you do use Morse code, a far amount of information can be carried in 80 characters, 40 at the front and another 40 at the back. It could be 80 characters of mostly 10-codes and Q-codes along with call signs.

Of course, a low power transmission of any kind of signal of a few minutes duration at a time, will probably go unnoticed on a little used CB channel late at night.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

PLEASE don't feel sorry for Me. I moved 3,000 miles away from family and friends in 2004 because in Oct. 2003 One of My Doctors gave Me 9-12 months to "Live" due to a cancer atop My lungs. I used to work "Special Investigations" which included Narcotics and "the fun one" Vice, and was exposed to over 75 meth. labs, usually a 'Beavis & Butthead' in some crap motel room, without, what is now required breathing apparatuses. So ALL of this is "gravy"...

Funny thing is, I looked into "Death" so I could have My 'ducks in a row' and found a whole beautiful side to what is called "death" If I hadn't sought an answer for what was diagnosed, I'd probably have a "Flee Kit" with $1,000s of Foreign Currencies, at least $25k in Gold and silver, 3 different U.S. Passports and My "mood ring", but seeing that I'm supposed to have been 'dead' than I can have ALL the "Faith" in the world, easy for Me to play Cary Grant or Your favorite chivalrous actor..

Another funny thing, You know if that didn't leave You in stitches, is that since My "Epiphany" I've also noticed I have more 'Faith" than those who self-describe as "Faithful" hmmm. The only Church™ I attend is Me. I don't get to hear/listen to any sermons, which would actually be that person's interpretation of yet another.. When I AM in My Church™ ALL I have to do is "Be"...

I do appreciate Your 'empathy' but in My case it is unwarranted, and I hope that even though You are PREPARED, that a time/instant NEVER arise that tests You(rs) preparedness..

Thanks again.

namaste

a reply to: JimNasium

Spiritual preparedness is a good subject but I don't need a foxhole conversion just yet. If it gets that bad, the CB isn't going to help, but in the mean time, if a natural disaster like floods, fires, earthquakes, solar EMP, what have you, it could help at a community and family level.

Glad that you have chimed in. Lung cancer is a terrible thing, I lost my mother just 6 years ago from it. Good luck when that final curtain comes down. God bless.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

et tu Brute- A lil Billy Shakespeare in case there are 'chicks' present..

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

There is a few already in Michigan and nationwide. A FEMA Team member of mine is one. These operators take over communications in disasters when comm is down.

Training is free and info can be found online. You can join them. They already exist.

Here are 3 existing in Michigan you can join for Michigan. They have many members already.

Skywarn

Amatuer Radio Public Service Corp-NUGE

CERT Community Emergency Response Team/Ham Radio Operators

You can get licensed thru CERT as a disaster operator.

All can be found for your area in Michigan and elsewhere with a simple online search.

I have not even turned on my CB in over a year.

I am one of those old three letter operators from the early 1970s. Desert Rat KEQ 9064

I still have my old modified 23 channel rig.
It has a slider that allowed my to go 1 channel above ch 1.

I also still have my 1K foot warmer.

For my mobile i had a folding 3 element beam antenna and would set up on remote desert hill tops and talk to japan and Australia.

I had the FCC try to track me a couple times.

But they did not have good maps of the desert dirt road systems.

One time they had to call in the local search and rescue team to come out and get them when they got lost and stuck.

Being on the search and rescue team i responded.

They never did understand that the person they were tracking was one of those that rescued them.

There was talk some time ago here in Aus that they were going to introduce the ability to turn each person's cell phone in to a repeater. So it would be like having hundreds of low power towers in the area. I think a cell phone can get up to 20 miles. Supposedly this would be for the outback areas and for disasters. It was supposed to get the go ahead but I dont know what happened in the end, my guess is that it was canned.

originally posted by: ANNED
I had the FCC try to track me a couple times.

But they did not have good maps of the desert dirt road systems.

One time they had to call in the local search and rescue team to come out and get them when they got lost and stuck.

Being on the search and rescue team i responded.

They never did understand that the person they were tracking was one of those that rescued them.

sounds like where I live, I say to my wife that when they come to get us we will have lots of warning because they will be driving around the state looking for our town.