The Temple of the Condor, INCA Masterpiece or SOMETHING ELSE?

This toweringly spectacular structure sits near to the megalithic site of Ollantaytambo, Peru, For me this is a tour de force of megalithic sites. But once again when it comes to megalithic sites I’m puzzled by who made it. Was it indeed the Inca who crafted this out of the face of a mountain?

The Temple of the Condor Ollantaytambo Peru -

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Not a chisel, saw, hammer or stone pounder mark in sight. So how was this done?

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Look at these marks. What tool could leave marks like these in such hard material? -

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What we are looking at here?

Some of the stones blocks look like the H blocks at Puma Punku.



We either lost some spectacular technology or had help, in the form of laser beams or some other technology we can't understand.

Nothing in the world can convince me people were doing this type of stone work with stone or copper chisels and chicken bones.

The older it is, the better it is built.
a reply to: JamesTB

After 40 years in construction, I will say, the cuts look like saw marks to me. But even today the cuts around the windows would not be posable even with a modern track saw. They look more molded into place. Like formed concrete. As far a I know that's just not posable with stone.

originally posted by: Nickn3
After 40 years in construction, I will say, the cuts look like saw marks to me. But even today the cuts around the windows would not be posable even with a modern track saw. They look more molded into place. Like formed concrete. As far a I know that's just not posable with stone.

I think it is like concrete too, a lot of the ancient stone work we are seeing. It is just too damn perfect, looks like things were molded in a form, or melted and poured.

originally posted by: Nickn3
After 40 years in construction, I will say, the cuts look like saw marks to me. But even today the cuts around the windows would not be posable even with a modern track saw. They look more molded into place. Like formed concrete. As far a I know that's just not posable with stone.

I was going to say the same. The stone looks like it was plasticized and then hardened.

Great pics OP!

What's so unique about that. I could use my walk behind cement saw or my chainsaw style cement saw to cut both of those with a diamond blade. I also have air chissels and also a drill for drilling cement.

So someone like me just went back in time with their tools. Might need ten thousand gallons of gas though.

originally posted by: Hidinout
Some of the stones blocks look like the H blocks at Puma Punku.



We either lost some spectacular technology or had help, in the form of laser beams or some other technology we can't understand.

Nothing in the world can convince me people were doing this type of stone work with stone or copper chisels and chicken bones.

Who would believe they only had stone or copper chisels or chicken bones?

Mainstream history is lieing to us and has ALWAYS been, where do you think the MILLIONS OF POUNDS OF GOLD recovered from archealogical sites went to? TPTB.

START from a point of equal tech to us being used during the builds , and accept that of course the people in power today hide our current tech which could replicate this work.

Now you are faced with the true dilemma, which is that maybe these things arent as old as we think,maybe we need to ask ourselves what things begin to look like if we say these are only 4 or 5 thousand years old?

Obvioulsy we are "recovering" tech,we are "remembering concepts",we have been making technology LEAPS which cannot be cronologiclly reverse-engineered to their natural beginnings research and development -wise.

I love these pictures and these questions.

You can see cut marks,saw mark looking things in the criss-cross pattern,but other pictures look like the holes were left by moulds,not cut out,like there were perfectly built square pieces set into liquid which then set.

We assume because we have no records these structures are very very old,maybe our information was stolen and suppressed and these structures are the key to revealing by whom and when this theft happened,who decided to corner the market on Humanitys history and hide the truths,WHO burned Libraries FIRST during wars,who layed waste to knowledge and history when they should have only been taking life but keeping everything else?Who has been behind the scenes cusing this knowledge vacume forced over us?


If we go back and study the hammer and chisel and then follow the tchnologies as they devolop and evolve from that point to today we WILL find the spots where we see unusual technology jumps which DO NOT fit the natural evolutionary template of the path of least resistance.Just like we can easily see when,by whom and how,Tesla was suppressed while Edison was promoted,where we took the path of most resistance following Edison because he was backed and controlled by Industrialists who disenfranchised and suppressed Tesla.We can see this dynamic templte clearly today.

Lets ASSUME this technology equal to our Black or Hidden tech the government hides from us today WAS used to build these constructs, then there must be areas inthe evolution to todays Stone Work where technologys natural progress between the hammer/chisel ,mechanical saws, and the unknown tech was SPECIFICLLY AND INTENTIONALLY DELAYED AND WAYLAYED, this HAD to have happened , so if we simply research the tools we ALL started with no matter what culture or age we lived in we should be able to see where technology was held back for identifiable periods of time and then suddenly relesed to support specific fiscal interests to specific people.Lets assume we began with the hammer/chisel and now have the unknown technology used on these constructs, now lets follow the evolution of Stoneworking tools until we see the artificial technology bottle-necks developing,then lets chart them and look for patterns,where MONEY forces delayed tech through a bottle-neck,then lets look for patterns of fiscal rewards going to paralell places or having paralell impacts peripherally over long terms for a collusionl Group.

If we really want to learn how these things were built we need to follow what data we have and illuminate the historys of the technologies used to do this type of work,we need to find out WHY we arent seeing this tech used all over today with the ASSUMPTION that we SHOULD be seeing it.

Maybe the stone and copper chisels will hold the Golden Key to uncovering these mysteries after all by giving us their own histories as the tools they are to work with to solve the puzzles.

I loved looking at those pics. Is there a room behind the windows?

Also I wanted to tell you if you look at old threads most links are dead. If you want someone in two years to know what you're showing, I think you need to get a mod to help you display the pics and also label them in a way that can be googled.

Looks like a typical example of Incan architecture to me.

They look like saw marks because they are saw marks.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte
They look like saw marks because they are saw marks.

Harte

Saw marks in Andesite interesting. I have a couple of questions regarding this -

What were the saws made out of?

How did they manage to saw into the horizontal plane right up to the edge of vertical plane as seen below?

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originally posted by: JamesTB

originally posted by: Harte
They look like saw marks because they are saw marks.

Harte

Saw marks in Andesite interesting. I have a couple of questions regarding this -

What were the saws made out of?

How did they manage to saw into the horizontal plane right up to the edge of vertical plane as seen below?

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According to everything I've read, all the temples in the Machu piccu area - including the condor temple and the wall of the five monoliths (the pic everyone shows from Ollantaytambo) are made of rhyolite, which is the same stuff as granite only formed at surface pressure (extrusive) rather than underground like granite is (intrusive.)

Saws would be a type of copper alloy, similar to what's been found in the area dating to before the Inca arose (the Inca built all the above sites I mentioned.) The Inca made all sorts of tools from it, axes, chisels, knives, etc.

The same technique used for a knife can be used for a saw. Saws would not have been the actual cutting agent though. That would be sand. We know that this is how the Ancient Egyptians cut granite - with bronze slabbing saws and bronze tube drill saws (hole saws,) using sand as an abrasive cutter.

Regarding the closeness to the edge, that simply reflects that the saws were shorter than the stone that was removed.

Harte

Hiya James, you say "no tool marks", only one of those pictures offers e decent view of the worked surface, so can you really be so sure of that statement?.

I know you probably think a copper chisel a poor tool to carve the harder rocks, but the mistake many people make when thinking of "Copper Tools" is that they are ineffective. As Hart has has pointed out, some like saws and drills work by abrasion, using grits/sand/rock dust and chips caught in the copper blades and teeth to do the work. For chisels, many cultures had Copper Alloys that allow for harder tools, such as Arsenical Coppers and Bronzes that can be produced both by accident and design.

Here is an article on Copper Alloys in Ancient Peru.

The smooth surfaces on the stones are achieved by abrasion - obviously you can polish rocks. You can get them to a reflective finish with effort and the simplest of equipment. Like i've mentioned another time, sand, rock dust or charcoal can be used as an abrasive, either in a leather rag or rubbed on to the surface with a flat rock, and water or fat can be added to the mix too. This enables the polishers to go "through the grits" just as you would when sanding wood, so you get the scratches out and remove tool marks etc.

A remarkable amount of effort went into these sites, but then they were of course extremely important.

James if you are looking for a lost civilization look for its habitation sites. Constantly trying to say that the work of another culture really belongs to a much earlier one just doesn't work.

Here is a question to ponder; how did this ancient lost civilization just happen to hit upon the exact same building styles as the Inca were using - and were seen by the Spanish to be doing so?

The fringe answer: The Inca were copying the examples they saw

The follow on question, then why is their no sign of this civilization - why are its only monuments associated with the Incan Empire and that stone work with a particular tribe that was conquered by the Inca and used by them to do their best work?

originally posted by: skalla
Hiya James, you say "no tool marks", only one of those pictures offers e decent view of the worked surface, so can you really be so sure of that statement?.

I know you probably think a copper chisel a poor tool to carve the harder rocks, but the mistake many people make when thinking of "Copper Tools" is that they are ineffective. As Hart has has pointed out, some like saws and drills work by abrasion, using grits/sand/rock dust and chips caught in the copper blades and teeth to do the work. For chisels, many cultures had Copper Alloys that allow for harder tools, such as Arsenical Coppers and Bronzes that can be produced both by accident and design.

Here is an article on Copper Alloys in Ancient Peru.

The smooth surfaces on the stones are achieved by abrasion - obviously you can polish rocks. You can get them to a reflective finish with effort and the simplest of equipment. Like i've mentioned another time, sand, rock dust or charcoal can be used as an abrasive, either in a leather rag or rubbed on to the surface with a flat rock, and water or fat can be added to the mix too. This enables the polishers to go "through the grits" just as you would when sanding wood, so you get the scratches out and remove tool marks etc.

A remarkable amount of effort went into these sites, but then they were of course extremely important.

So where are these mythical tools? Show us these saws they used to cut the massive blocks and I listen to you.

Look at the ledge with the criss cross marks on it are you seriously saying that was done with a copper saw?

Of course it wasn't.

So come on show us these saws please.

originally posted by: Hanslune
James if you are looking for a lost civilization look for its habitation sites. Constantly trying to say that the work of another culture really belongs to a much earlier one just doesn't work.

Here is a question to ponder; how did this ancient lost civilization just happen to hit upon the exact same building styles as the Inca were using - and were seen by the Spanish to be doing so?

The fringe answer: The Inca were copying the examples they saw

The follow on question, then why is their no sign of this civilization - why are its only monuments associated with the Incan Empire and that stone work with a particular tribe that was conquered by the Inca and used by them to do their best work?

Look show us the tools! Otherwise you just have a theory that doesn't stand up to practical scrutiny.

originally posted by: JamesTB

originally posted by: Hanslune
James if you are looking for a lost civilization look for its habitation sites. Constantly trying to say that the work of another culture really belongs to a much earlier one just doesn't work.

Here is a question to ponder; how did this ancient lost civilization just happen to hit upon the exact same building styles as the Inca were using - and were seen by the Spanish to be doing so?

The fringe answer: The Inca were copying the examples they saw

The follow on question, then why is their no sign of this civilization - why are its only monuments associated with the Incan Empire and that stone work with a particular tribe that was conquered by the Inca and used by them to do their best work?

Look show us the tools! Otherwise you just have a theory that doesn't stand up to practical scrutiny.

Nope so you can deny it? Not going to work instead why don't you show us the tools the lost civilization used to make the stones. Trying to change the burden of proof ain't gonna work James....lol

Now go back and answer the question put to you please.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: JamesTB

originally posted by: Hanslune
James if you are looking for a lost civilization look for its habitation sites. Constantly trying to say that the work of another culture really belongs to a much earlier one just doesn't work.

Here is a question to ponder; how did this ancient lost civilization just happen to hit upon the exact same building styles as the Inca were using - and were seen by the Spanish to be doing so?

The fringe answer: The Inca were copying the examples they saw

The follow on question, then why is their no sign of this civilization - why are its only monuments associated with the Incan Empire and that stone work with a particular tribe that was conquered by the Inca and used by them to do their best work?

Look show us the tools! Otherwise you just have a theory that doesn't stand up to practical scrutiny.

Nope so you can deny it? Not going to work instead why don't you show us the tools the lost civilization used to make the stones. Trying to change the burden of proof ain't gonna work James....lol

Now go back and answer the question put to you please.

Ha! The tools to do that job don't exist and you know it.

originally posted by: JamesTB

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: JamesTB

originally posted by: Hanslune
James if you are looking for a lost civilization look for its habitation sites. Constantly trying to say that the work of another culture really belongs to a much earlier one just doesn't work.

Here is a question to ponder; how did this ancient lost civilization just happen to hit upon the exact same building styles as the Inca were using - and were seen by the Spanish to be doing so?

The fringe answer: The Inca were copying the examples they saw

The follow on question, then why is their no sign of this civilization - why are its only monuments associated with the Incan Empire and that stone work with a particular tribe that was conquered by the Inca and used by them to do their best work?

Look show us the tools! Otherwise you just have a theory that doesn't stand up to practical scrutiny.

Nope so you can deny it? Not going to work instead why don't you show us the tools the lost civilization used to make the stones. Trying to change the burden of proof ain't gonna work James....lol

Now go back and answer the question put to you please.

Ha! The tools to do that job don't exist and you know it.

Trying to shift the burden of proof isn't going to work James, lol

Why do you want us to show you the tools, you've already deny they exist or work so you would have already extensively studied them and THEN shown how they don't work.

Please show us that work please.

Or show us the tools you said the advance civilization used......also go back and answer the question I asked earlier - I'm not going to forget it.