The fourth seal was closed with the Inquisition

a reply to: olaru12

Can't you see? He's going for the Peter Jackson effect! Oh how I hate that man, making me wait a whole year to watch the next part!

originally posted by: borntowatch

Death and hell? Death yeah, to just a poor unfortunate few, hell, No.

Well death came to many more before the inquisition, look at the amount killed by the Romans, supposedly 100 thousand (seems very high),
www.unrv.com...
in fact only about 3 to 5 thousand people died over some 300 odd years in the inquisition,,

What you fail to see or address, is that the pervaded reforms that paved the way for the inquisition, also paved the way for the crusades. Sarasenes, Jews, Canaanites, Barbarians, even internal crusades, look at Spain for heaven's sake, they were all deemed heretics and were murdered in the thousands, because of the doctrines and the school of thought of the inquisition. I will address this further in my next thread about the "well of souls".

In fact the inquisition was used to teach Protestants that the Catholics were criminals and brought freedom to the West. Hardly the release of the Pale Horse with Death

Oh dear. Touché, man. That just earned you the grand prix. Amazing!

a reply to: f0xbat

Peter Jackson? I'm flattered. Thanks a lot for this lovely contribution to the renown quality of ATS. It's people like you that make this place such an oasis of free thought and inspiring dialogue.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

What you fail to see or address, is that the pervaded reforms that paved the way for the inquisition, also paved the way for the crusades. Sarasenes, Jews, Canaanites, Barbarians, even internal crusades, look at Spain for heaven's sake, they were all deemed heretics and were murdered in the thousands, because of the doctrines and the school of thought of the inquisition. I will address this further in my next thread about the "well of souls".

In fact the inquisition was used to teach Protestants that the Catholics were criminals and brought freedom to the West. Hardly the release of the Pale Horse with Death

Oh dear. Touché, man. That just earned you the grand prix. Amazing!

Are you suggesting the inquisitions of the 1200s
1231: Gregory IX begins Medieval Inquisition

1478: Sixtus IV authorizes the Spanish Inquisition
www.lordsandladies.org...

justified the crusades that started in

First Crusade 1096 - 1099 The People's Crusade - Freeing the Holy Lands. 1st Crusade led by Count Raymond IV of Toulouse and proclaimed by many wandering preachers, notably Peter the Hermit
www.lordsandladies.org...

The maths is just simply wrong, the inquisition started before the crusade, not, no, its not history.


Now look at what a fourth part of the earths population was back in the inquisition times,about 420 odd million people.

www.scottmanning.com...

The seal states 1 fourth of the peoples will die. Contrarily the following year and then years afterwards the population has increased, to a point the earth now holds billions

When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come.” I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
— Revelation 6:7-8˄ NASB

So far outside of the Mongol Khans, the Spaniards in South America, I cant see the death toll (I cant see it there either, really).
Unless of course you are talking it being a rolling number over centuries, many centuries.
But that leads me to my question, why did it start at the inquisition, not before or after, during some other evil religious persecution?
Why do you think it started there and not when the Romans conquered the temple in Jerusalem, as an example.

Now understand before you get all ancy. I am not saying you are wrong, I can sort of see your reasoning, I just cant see anything that supports your reasoning.
Is this your interpretation, if it is then its interesting to say the least.
I dont think its right based on what I have a pre conceived belief about.
Though I am not persuaded, I am interested in how you reasoned this.

I guess I need more explanation, with out the attitude

originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

What you fail to see or address, is that the pervaded reforms that paved the way for the inquisition, also paved the way for the crusades. Sarasenes, Jews, Canaanites, Barbarians, even internal crusades, look at Spain for heaven's sake, they were all deemed heretics and were murdered in the thousands, because of the doctrines and the school of thought of the inquisition. I will address this further in my next thread about the "well of souls".

In fact the inquisition was used to teach Protestants that the Catholics were criminals and brought freedom to the West. Hardly the release of the Pale Horse with Death

Oh dear. Touché, man. That just earned you the grand prix. Amazing!

Are you suggesting the inquisitions of the 1200s
1231: Gregory IX begins Medieval Inquisition

1478: Sixtus IV authorizes the Spanish Inquisition
www.lordsandladies.org...

justified the crusades that started in

First Crusade 1096 - 1099 The People's Crusade - Freeing the Holy Lands. 1st Crusade led by Count Raymond IV of Toulouse and proclaimed by many wandering preachers, notably Peter the Hermit
www.lordsandladies.org...

The maths is just simply wrong, the inquisition started before the crusade, not, no, its not history.

I will simply just quote from the OP to show exactly what I mean:

From the OP ==> "After having been harsh in her judgement and executing heretics since 380 AD, it wasn't until the 11th century the RC Church started sending heretics to Hades en masse by the truckload (source), criminalising whole religions and religious movements and societies, alongside the crusades. These crusades and inquisitions lasted for quite a few centuries and left minions of dead saints dead in the gutters. "

You have to see the crusades and the inquisition as the results of the Catholic heresy reforms of the 10th and 11th centuries.

Now look at what a fourth part of the earths population was back in the inquisition times,about 420 odd million people.

www.scottmanning.com...

The seal states 1 fourth of the peoples will die. Contrarily the following year and then years afterwards the population has increased, to a point the earth now holds billions

When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come.” I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
— Revelation 6:7-8˄ NASB

Controlling or having authority of 1/4th of the earth is not the same as killing 1/4th of the world populace. The inquisition and the crusades turned all of Europe and the Middle East into a bleeding nightmare. Some might say that the Eastern and Western Roman empires, the Middle East and North Africa and the oceans they controlled-- some might say it's at least a good chunk of the Earth, as for population? We don't exactly have any accurate figures to consider.

So far outside of the Mongol Khans, the Spaniards in South America, I cant see the death toll (I cant see it there either, really).
Unless of course you are talking it being a rolling number over centuries, many centuries.
But that leads me to my question, why did it start at the inquisition, not before or after, during some other evil religious persecution?
Why do you think it started there and not when the Romans conquered the temple in Jerusalem, as an example.

Now understand before you get all ancy. I am not saying you are wrong, I can sort of see your reasoning, I just cant see anything that supports your reasoning.
Is this your interpretation, if it is then its interesting to say the least.
I dont think its right based on what I have a pre conceived belief about.
Though I am not persuaded, I am interested in how you reasoned this.

I guess I need more explanation, with out the attitude

According to www.fordham.edu... there lived about 40 million people in Europe around 1000 AD. Now, here is the famous Idrisi Map of the "known world" from around 1000 years ago:
Here is a link to a bigger picture ==> www.theplanisphere.com...

Can you make out Europe, and is it about 1/4th of the Earth? PS: It's drawn upside down compared to modern maps.

Its an interesting concept, just not sold on it.

I think when God wakes people up, causes the problems we are told of, true Christians will welcome.
The whole earth, the plants and animals will be aware God is bringing down His judgement.

Its almost like the way you describe it, God is undertaking His plan sneakily.

The fact is NONE of the book of Revelation is predictions or prophecies about past, present or future historical events. A “prophecy” is not just about “predictions” or about future events.None of the prophecies in the scripture are “literal” in nature even the ones “foisted” on Yahoshua for being the “Jewish” messiah.(The Israelites did not believe in a “coming messiah).Yahoshua did not fulfill the requirements therefore it was one of the few things the ancient Jews got right(by being wrong) he was not the Jewish messiah.The fact is Yahoshua is “THE MASHIACH”(Hamashiach).

Mashiach in Hebrew is anointing. It means to rub or smear oil on.It is was they did to a king or prophet to denote the “power of the creator God” was imbued to them.It was symbolic of the “acts” the King or prophet did.The difference with Yahoshua is he IS the anointing itself. It was not symbolic nor was it”imbued”.He was NOT the Jewish mashiach because the Jews had ZERO idea what the prophets meant.

The fact is ALL interpretations of the scripture from any type of study or method is false because that is not the purpose of the scriptures .It is a testimony (witness) that testifies to the Truth.It isn’t necessary that it is “believed” because that belief will be false anyway because belief is NOT knowing.Yahoshua never said he “believed” anything he ONLY knew.He only said everyone else would “first” have to “believe” because he KNEW mans nature of religious belief.

Yahoshua clearly demonstrated how “knowing” works.He asked his disciple who the “people” said he was.They said …..the prophets so and so( and named OT prophets).Then Yahoshua asked them who THEY thought he was and Simon Peter (the dullard) answered….the Son of the creator God THE christ(which means anointing not a specific person).Yahoshua answered him “flesh and blood has not REVEALED this to you but my father who is in ouranos (your heavens).

He didn’t say the scriptures have revealed this to you or your “faith”.He clearly delineated between the processes.The people believe what the Jewish leaders “studied” and taught them…..but they were ALWAYS wrong…(even when they were right).Yahoshua clearly sated to the Jewish leaders:

“You study(search) the scriptures THINKING that IN Them you have LIFE ..yet you FAIL to come to me (Yahoshua) who they (the scriptures) “testify” of that I would deliver (save) you”……

That is the vanity of “studying the scriptures…it doesn’t do anything but make a person more religiously blind.(and not know it).Yahoshua NEVER taught from the scriptures.When he quoted them he “cherry picked the truth” because he knew they had been corrupted and no one would understand what he meant when he spoke the Truth.He never has a “bible study” with the disciple on Daniel or Ezekiel or any book he is WAY to busy DOING and BEING things like “helping people...(and part of that help was denying the complete ignorance of the Jewish leaders and their religion) and proclaiming the most stupendous statements…the Good News…..Yahoshua..the creator God IS deliverance from Hades….the grave ,the realm of death.

What could possibly be more GOOD than that..yet BILLIONS only want to “believe” a false religion about NOTHING….religious rituals and teachings and DOOM PORN about the end of the world they can do absolutely NOTHING about (if it were true)…..It’s just foolishness.Mankind is so hopped up on their “Belief System religion” ad the “drama” of Lions and Tiggers and BEARS OH MY!! with there chicken little tin foil hats they have ZERO interest in the TRUTH! ..reason????? what the hell is that….I got my pocketful of “theology” thank you.

Anyone who reads my posts knows I very seldom get sarcastic when I write however I think it is high time all this foolishness is DENIED with foolishness!I understand why people “want” to believe this stuff.It’s entertaining(to some people definitely not me) and somehow makes someone feel in “control” like they know what is happening however that is just more foolishness.

It does not take sagistic wisdom to know that ALL of this religious garbage has to be dumped and burned before the Truth can be known.The book of Revelation is the most profound book of all scriptures because it is the testimony that testifies the most of Yahoshua.There is a specific reason why it says NOTHING is to be added or diminished from it or it will be added and diminished for those that do.

In one sense this is a very,very dangerous book in the wrong hands.It is a loaded atomic bomb.It completely transforms the mind that twists its words into their own meaning by making the believer blind and deaf.In other words …Those that think they know what the words in it mean DO NOT know what it means at all.Those perversion will color every aspect of your life.To believe there is a THE Antichrist and a coming great cataclysmic ruination of the earth by the hand of an angry and vengeful, mercilessness monster God is the greatest of all folly.My STAUNCH suggestion(which will go unheeded) is to put the book down and walk away and don’t look back.Do not attempt to teach or preach it or believe your “theories” they will all be in vain and be to yours (and the “hearers) extreme detriment.

originally posted by: Rex282

The fact is NONE of the book of Revelation is predictions or prophecies about past, present or future historical events.

Revelation 22:10 And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book […]"

You are right that a prophecy isn't the same as a prediction, and you are right that Jesus (or Jesua) was not or is not the Meshiach, but the Book of Revelation is an apocalyptic prophecy (like Daniel and a few apocryphal writings), packed with plenty of future world events, or step stones if you like, one being the consequence of the other, events that have been fulfilled, and events that has yet to be fulfilled. And it is also 'a Way' for establishing kingdoms and crown Christian kings.

The main argument about the Apocalypse, is whether these clearly prophetic, now mostly historical events are mere predictions or whether they display a Divine Plan, with Orders for the kings of this world to sort out.

a reply to: olaru12

I think the purpose is to explain Revelations. As there are many different seals, horsemen, and more it cannot fit in one thread. I think the O.p. just likes focusing on one issue with each thread.

When you say the fourth seal was sealed, is this something that happens outside of revelations? Are they also opened in separate events?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

God's kings are the enlightened ones. Enlightenment is not the sole possession for any group.

Enlightenment was offered to anyone who would seek God, through any of the religious texts. Since they all teach that enlightenment comes from the Holy Spirit within.

The elect will come from all races, countries, and religions. In this way all will believe and none have to walk away from thier prophet.

God's devine plan is laid out in the many religious texts from all over the world. The compete plan can be found in the bible, but it cannot be understood without the rest of the piece that lie elsewhere.

OT, NT, Koran, Zoroaster, The Vedas, Buddah, Plato, Native American, Siekh and maybe more, are all words from prophets who all believed in the devine Holy Spirit within all men.

And to have the Holy Spirit revealed in you is enlightenment, Nirvana, Heaven, Sonship to a devine creator.

a reply to: darkbake

The scroll itself is probably one of the original copies of Revelation penned by John the Scribe himself, probably written in Hebrew or Aramaic. When Constantine arrived, the Church probably saw him as the promised Messiah written about throughout the Apocalypse, so they rolled up the scroll, sealed it and hid it for the Lamb of God to open it. For every fulfilment it was sealed again, until the flying machines would rule the sky and throw bombs on the Earth, which is the cue for the next level. The trumpets.

originally posted by: olaru12
I know what the seventh seal is...

Yes, that's when tinfoil became freely available and tinfoil-hats caught on