The second seal was closed by Augustine

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: DISRAELI

The seven vials towards the end of the book shows the judgement of the church and the beasts (kings of the world), before unveiling the true Messiah as a true descendant of Jesus to whom all the kings of this world must adhere to, who will fulfil everything in a lifetime and destroy what the Church and her dragonbred beasts used millennia to achieve

What do you mean by true descendant of Jesus? I don't want to make an assumption before I comment.

a reply to: sacgamer25

He is the one who is born by the woman in the wilderness:
"She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne" Revelation 12:5

Of whom Jesus says:
"The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son." Revelation 21:7

He is the conquering Word of God:
"Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God." Revelation 19:11ff

(Quotes from ESV)

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

My take on Rev12:5 I have never really thought of Revelation in those terms. I have always been under the impression that Jesus was the one born and taken up to the throne, until the revelation of Christ, invokes a spiritual second coming.

My take on Rev 21:7. You may be right, but I personally wouldn't call him the Christ of Jesus. Only Jesus is the Christ. Jesus's son would be one who has overcome the world and understood his message.

a reply to: sacgamer25

The thing is, Jesus didn't want to be the Messiah, he even fled when people wanted to make him the Messiah (see John 6:15) and Pilate mocked him by calling him King of the Jews, the soldiers put a cape on him and they gave him a crown of thorns.

Jesus isn't king, he is high priest (Hebrews 6 onwards) "in the order of Melchizedek", and he proclaims and crowns kings (Revelation 2+3). Then again Melchizedek was (and is, according to Hebrews) a king AND a priest. King of (Jeru-) Salem and Priest of "The Most High" or "El Aljon" probably another name for "El Shaddai" (see Genesis 14:18), then again, the Canaanite god El had 72 sons. This one here is the highest. Probably Dutch

originally posted by: sacgamer25
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

My take on Rev12:5 I have never really thought of Revelation in those terms. I have always been under the impression that Jesus was the one born and taken up to the throne, until the revelation of Christ, invokes a spiritual second coming.

My take on Rev 21:7. You may be right, but I personally wouldn't call him the Christ of Jesus. Only Jesus is the Christ. Jesus's son would be one who has overcome the world and understood his message.

The messiah born in Rev 12 is prophesied of in Rev 2 and 3 at the end of each letter to the churches ("he who conquers…" ESV or "he who overcometh" in KJV), is taken up to God as a newborn baby and brought up together with the gods. You meet him here and there elsewhere in the Apocalypse, but he returns as the full fledged Victorious Messiah in Rev. 19 sporting a Pegasus, leading a pack of mean angels who have overcome under his command. What a sight to see...

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I'm not sure where you are going with this? Do you believe that we are still waiting for the Christ, and Jesus was only a prophet? Or that thier is a second Christ, who is not Jesus? Or am I not understanding you?

originally posted by: sacgamer25
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I'm not sure where you are going with this? Do you believe that we are still waiting for the Christ, and Jesus was only a prophet? Or that thier is a second Christ, who is not Jesus? Or am I not understanding you?

Jesus was a rabbi. He refused to be called messiah, and when people tried to make him the messiah he ran away. You have to go to Paul to find arguments for Jesus=Messiah, have you ever wondered why? Perhaps the same reason behind abolishing circumcision and food hygiene? Marginalising the early Church setting them apart from Judaism, making sure they would lock themselves out of the synagogues, and make them an enemy of and a threat to Rome?

ETA: As far as I'm concerned the Messiah is the sitting president of Israel, Reuven Rivlin.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

This is where I have to disagree with you. Jesus most certainly is messiah, and Paul's letters don't teach anything close to today's Christianity.

Paul's, letters teach us that he saw Jesus Christ as the light, the Holy Spirit. Just like Jesus said, when he claimed to be the light of this world.

a reply to: sacgamer25

It's a free world, but worshipping Jesus as the Messiah is pointless, he never were king, but all the kings of Europe have been crowned in his name. He is the high priest of Heaven, supposedly ordaining popes and crowning kings.