When killing is "right"

Murder is murder. If you kill someone in war you commit a murder. If you kill someone who stole your sweat socks you commit a murder. Do you think GOD will show sympathy for a man who kills in war, or will GOD treat all murders and such acts similar?

it would help to know who or what God is...
Clap your hands.... that is God, in a form ..
To me murder is only okay when the person your murdering is irrational and plans the death of many innocent people in their mind.... A good example to me would be the nazi's or the kkk, You can't reason with a nazi or a member of the kkk they believe killing those people does good, (they justify their God, their clapping of the hands if you follow me) they justify it by their faith and belief it is a reality and must be. Those types of people should be "murdered" because they are unfruitful individuals, only one who will save a life is a justified clap.

it sounds really like a irrational circle, but thats one circle that would quickly become a straight line, no one would dare think of killing for fear of being killed.. lol eventually that is...

[edit on 6/12/04 by dnero6911]

Which than brings us to today.... If I can't kill, and live, I'll kill all and then it shall end.... i.e. WMD... Their is no justification for death of that mulititude,... Those thoughts themselves should be shunned... Look around you, at one time or another those were "concepts" .. now they're realities... understand who you are and where you are, you've been sleeping... The TV didn't exist except in someones mind... heck electricity -as we know it- NEVER existed until someone thought of it. Those evil thoughts become realities as well, just as this planet became a reality.

[edit on 6/12/04 by dnero6911]

LoL ... again .. when time stands still ..
I don't know about you, but I've never left the present. Now thats a REALITY

[edit on 6/12/04 by dnero6911]

100,000 thousands iraqi's have died in this "liberation." Is it murder or just their luck to be an Iraqi who sits on the second largest oil reserve left?

There is a lot of blood on a lot of hands. People will the death of people on this board and in print daily. I don't see a difference between the two.

Originally posted by Justanotherperson
100,000 thousands iraqi's have died in this "liberation." Is it murder or just their luck to be an Iraqi who sits on the second largest oil reserve left?

There is a lot of blood on a lot of hands. People will the death of people on this board and in print daily. I don't see a difference between the two.

better yet, is there a difference between the past and the future?
no because they are the same thing, a concept.
Just like both of those are murder.
in reality we see reality, when you stop in the present and observe the present all are harmonious...
Time is the one thing which we know nothing about, because it has existed Forever, you can't measure or give a name to something that was before you, ... Unless you come to know it.... in our lack of understanding we made lies to explain the unknown, its such a hard thing to explain .. I wish it was easy for everyone to grasp .. Even I am new to this "Present"

There are many situations that one can be faced with that can lead to tough calls.

For instance, is it ok to put an old man in pain, dying of cancer to death if that is what he wants?

At what stage do you class murder murder? Is having an abortion murder?

I believe that if you take away a life then it is murder. Blowing up people in a bomb, shooting them etc. If it is intentional, then it is murder. If I accidentally run over a person in a car and kill them, it is an accident. If I am drunk when I ran them down, I would call that murder, as I was not in control of what I was doing.

A tough situation would be a person carrying a contagious disease that could cause an epidemic (like on the show 24). Is it better to kill them and stop millions of people from getting the disease or let him life and have hundreds of people exposed?

Not an easy question or decision to make.

Basically, if the killing involves someone other than myself, then I pretty much try to stay out of it.

If it involves me, then it is an intolerable outrage demanding the most extreme measures.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

If someone is in terrible pain and/or gravely wounded/sick i'd say death can be justified there. Lots of ppl even want to legalize suicide so that its them who are doing it to themselves which in my eyes is aiight.

Originally posted by Majic
Basically, if the killing involves someone other than myself, then I pretty much try to stay out of it.

If it involves me, then it is an intolerable outrage demanding the most extreme measures.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

but is that not sick?

Originally posted by dnero6911
but is that not sick?

Nope, it's actually a lot healthier than any of the alternatives.

Don't believe me? Put any alternative to the test, and see how it works out.

I'll try to keep at least one of these babies on the showroom floor for you when you come back to buy it.


[edit on 12/6/2004 by Majic]

humm Personly I wish person in the world would pile all the guns tanks and everother wepone used to kill into a big pile to be mealted down into plows so as we can feed our children and wifes instead of killing them.
But because I know this will never happen if anyone from anyware be it the US or the UK or russia or anyware threatens my family I would kill them .
But this is only because they gave me no other choice I would take no pleasure in this . Is killing wrong yes it is . Is killing the one who is trying to kill you wrong ? No in this case your using your servivel instinks to stay ALIVE . Sometimes its not a question of wrong but a question of who dies you or the other guy and the only two choices you have are stand there and let the person kill you or fight and kill them so they cant kill you.
Personly I Strongly belive you have the right to protect your self to what ever extreme is nessery.
I live in the US and have worked jobs and listened to these guys saying all day ill kill you man to each other .To me this constutes a Threat and at that point you should be able to protect your self with deadly force.
After all if they dont want to kill you why are they saying it?
Ps ill one other thing if everone use this meathed Murder would become a RARE thing .As people would think twice befor trying it because they now know it mite be there death .
Lets say they revamped the laws to reflect this . Law you have the right to protect your self to what ever extreme nessery.
ok now how long do you think these teens would keep robing gas stations? Because with this law even pointing a gun constutes a death threat giving you the right to kill to protect your self. inside two years tops the murder rate would drop to close to zero and all of you who belive killing is black and white would no longer have to debate it.

Well.. If we just look at the way the Universe works we can tell when God thinks it�s ok to murder (kill) someone.

� If someone is threatening you, your family, your home or your community.


� If you and someone else both need the same critical resource to survive and a more peaceful solution cannot be achieved. Think I�m wrong about this one? Take this example: Your daughter is near death from dehydration and your neighbor has 2 gallons of water. You ask to purchase the water but he refuses. You cannot get the water anywhere else. You have a gun. You WILL take the water, trust me.

That�s about it. Throughout our history we have seen this pattern rewarded and other patterns fail: Self-destructive, violent, communities become unstable and are eventually conquered by more organized and rational communities. Communities that are too passive are almost always wiped out by more violent neighbors. Communities that are strong and pursue technological advances always have major advantages over communities that do not. (i.e.: If you can kill more easily that someone else then you usually win).

The universe is NOT set up to reward passive behavior. This is not a human failing. ALL sentient entities in our ecosystem play by these rules.

If I accidentally run over a person in a car and kill them, it is an accident. If I am drunk when I ran them down, I would call that murder, as I was not in control of what I was doing.

I don't see the difference. Neither is intentional.

Alcohol may impair driving ability, but if someone runs over someone without alcohol, then perhaps they have NATURALLY impaired driving ability. (Or geneticaly impaired)

Don't be so quick to demonize alcohol without also demonizing cellphones, makeup mirrors, changing CD's, eating, drinking, talking, being overly tired, or just not paying attention.


To answer the thread question -

Murder isn't good or bad. It's just an action, one of millions, which people are capable of, when interacting. Perhaps it's judged evil by God, and perhaps not. Maybe sometimes it's justified, and somtimes maybe not.

If you follow the Ten Commandments, then no. There is no asterick denoting exceptions. It is never okay to kill another.
Ever.

Under any circumstances.

Ever.

Each person who kills is only judged by God. Only God
knows their soul, their mind, their reasons, and the true
circumstances. I don't think we can definitely say whether or
not God will punish them.
They are judged by man's law also. And many times man's
law is different from God's law.

Well, I agree generally that murder is murder and should be regarded as such. This can be applied to the death penalty. If someone is executed, they have been murdered. Just under control in controlled conditions. Why shouldn't the government be punished for murder? What about the war in Iraq? Murder.

I do, however, think there are some withstanding cases which overcome this rule. Such as the case of direct-defense. If a man walks into your houses and puts a gun to your child's head, you have every right to kill that person to save your own. True, this is murder, but justified murder. There are exceptions to every rule.

One that creates more questions than answers.

Representing only myself here.

Main Entry: 1kill
Pronunciation: 'kil
Function: verb
1 a : to deprive of life

Wow, such a simple definition yet we as people have a hard time conceptually. Were humans created to kill? No, rather to create new life. What reason do we have then to select who lives and who dies? How do we decided who lives and who dies? What happens when YOU are in the catagory determined by mankind to die?

I have no right to take someone's life. I do not expect my neighbor to feel they have a right to either. Nor my county, state, country, planet.

Someone will post if I do not address so here goes: "Okay Saint, what's your plan then for dealing with terrorists, criminals and the like?" We need to find a better way. I'm a big fan of special forces - the grab 'em, bag 'em, and get 'em out of there tactic. Now I didn't say it was easy, but the more practiced the better.

I don't think we need to clarify the definition of killing/murder as much as we need to with what is meant by Right.

When is it right? I suppose it all depends on one's sense of morality. My first thought was not when it is Right, but rather when is it Natural. This also brings up many problems because it is natural for some male animals to kill the babies of a mother that are not his own in order to bring the female in heat faster. This, of course, would not be seen as very acceptible in humans.

So often though...especially with war....someone's death does not only fall on the soldier, but also on that soldiers direct influences....Someone gave that soldier orders to kill...someone taught that soldier how to kill....someone also taught that soldier how to provide basic first-aid (since they are the enemy we will provide first-aid to our own soldiers first)

Who recieves the primary burden of this blame? Or do they all share it equally? I work every day and a portion of my money goes to taxes, which then goes to support this war...thus I'm supporting to help Joe kill John....Am I to blame too?

I don't think this is a black and white an issue as it has been made out to be....And the question of "Will God accept me or not?"....Like others have mentioned....What is God? What religion? AQ kills in the name of God...we think they are "evil" but they see themselves as martyrs...Who's right and who's wrong?

It's all about perspective....and no one knows which spin is the right one until all is said and done

When I joined the Army I took the oath all new soldiers take. Paraphrased and shortened, it goes like this, "I will kill everyone my leaders tell me to in the name of God." Okay, not in so few of words, but that's the basic gist of it. I recently tried to apply for conscientious objector status, where I had to basically say I thought killing was NEVER justified. I think killing in a war is wrong, because you're killing in the name of war, which wrong. (No, I don't believe you're killing in the name of "peace", like some people do.) I had to rethink all this when I realized I don't really know what I would do in a situation where I might have to defend my life or the lives of my family friends in a direct way, as in they were being attacked and I could defend them physically. I would hate to have to kill somebody in self-defense or in defense of family/friends, but I really don't know what I would do in a situation like that. No one does unless they've been in that situation. As far as God is concerned, I don't even know if I believe in Him. But if there is a God, I'm sure he bases all of his judgements on your heart, whether you were killing for a very good, legitimate reason or not. Perhaps in the eyes of God there is NO legitimate reason, I dunno. I think there are certain situations where it might be justified, war is probably not one of them though.

Religion aside, I think killing to save my life is completely fine to me. We are animals dispite all our efforts to pretend to be something else, and animals routinely defend themselves with full force when threatened. If someone is goin g to kill my friends, family, loved ones, or myself I'm doing to do my damn best to put a bullet between their eyes before they can deal out harm, and to hell with any system or person who tells me I should have let a friend die without stepping in.

Which is worse?
To kill one to save the lives of millions.
Or to stand by and do nothing as that one kills millions.

The question in the title is loaded. It's not a simple yes or no answer.