Ukraine to seek NATO membership - BBC

this all started when the democratically elected government turned NATO down in the first place
hence the billions of constant nato interference in internal Ukrainian affairs, and the hilariously unfounded Putin demonification
nice to see the Nazi supporters out for a turn...sad but not unexpected I must say

heil harper!

PS
endgame:
this is all about an attempt to balkanize Russia so the usual suspects can rape her for her resources and natoize ( enslave)the peeps
just read Bryzynski...its been his plan since before the Taliban were invented by the US...

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

You got this all wrong man. I am not a pro-Russian. I am a Yugoslavian citizen. You forget that Yugoslavia never got along with Soviet Union, in fact, our two communist countries hated each other. Just a little bit of history for you.

I just can't stand the people who push lies as facts, which obviously makes you think that im pro-Russian.

You're changing the subject. You said in Soviet Union, the secret police spied on their own citizens. But you fail to say that spying happens in every other country, so I just gave you a little reminder of what has happened in the US just a year ago.

But back on the subject. I have been saying this since the beginning of the conflict. NATO/US attention was to overthrow the pro-Russian president Yanuckovich, create a mess in Ukraine, and all that just so they could set up a base in the Eastern Ukraine, right in front of Russia.

EDIT: I am just wondering which condition did previous post violated, when all i asked for was the proofs for the claims the OP made, and i just posted two videos in which we can see Ukrainian army shelling civilians.

Should all non-western members wear yellow avatars?

Yes, but in the USA they don't send you to a Gulag for political activity such as daring to suggest that voting should be free. You see my point.

Unfortunately, this is just a pipe dream until the situation is resolved - NATO won't admit a new member with "unresolved border issues". In fact, it was a sticking point last time Ukraine courted NATO membership..

That said, if Russia continues to behave in the manner it does, they may well ignore that and admit them anyway. News is that NATO will announce a new RRF of Division size to be able to be deployed "within days of a crisis"

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

And the difference is what exactly? Could you be any more hypocrite?

When it's the US who's spying on it's own citizens and other countries citizens, then it's okay, it's democratic, but if Russia's doing it, then it's against human laws?

Same as, when US/NATO breaks another country sovereignty, when they bomb that country, completely tear it apart, it's okay, but if Russia takes a region with zero casualties and while assisting their own people, then it's not okay.

A logic of a western citizen. Never stops surprising me. So hypocrite. Double standards as usual ( not every of course, there are exceptions, but they are in minority )

Plus, we're still waiting for you to explain the videos i posted.

Most of us Americans don't think what you stated above is OK. It will take some time for these things to change. Obama is trying his best to resist the calls for him to continue being the world Police.

Fortunately there is a growing wing of the Republican party who is also against American aggression. I hope that in the future we continue to resist the nut cases like Karl Rove, John McCain etc... and that we continue to move toward letting the world deal with their own problems. Some like McCain would throw Young American bodies at every fare up in the world. Most of us are not supporting these types.

It will take time for elections to happen to remove these tyrants.

Just because America has done some pretty stupid stuff in the past and maybe even now if Obama falls for it does not make it OK for Russia to invade a sovereign state.

Either side doing what you stated above is "Bad". Two wrongs don't make a right. I for one think we should let them sort it out and stay out of it completely. If for instance we supported Putin's efforts that might go a long way toward improving relations between two countries that can end the world. Ukraine is not worth risking escalation to Nuclear war between Russia and the US. In fact I bet many Ukrainians would not mind being "Russians" again.

Ukraine might be better off under Moscow. Even though I have my own thoughts on what is "best", ultimately, I think it is best to let them sort it out with as little intervention from external Nations as possible.

originally posted by: Danbones
this all started when the democratically elected government turned NATO down in the first place
hence the billions of constant nato interference in internal Ukrainian affairs, and the hilariously unfounded Putin demonification
nice to see the Nazi supporters out for a turn...sad but not unexpected I must say

heil harper!

PS
endgame:
this is all about an attempt to balkanize Russia so the usual suspects can rape her for her resources and natoize ( enslave)the peeps
just read Bryzynski...its been his plan since before the Taliban were invented by the US...

'Balkanise Russia' how exactly? I thought that this was more a case of Putin trying to grab bits of other states that used to be misruled by the USSR?

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Yes, I do see what you saying and you are correct. Those were the times of the communism. It happened in my country also. Everyone who were talking against Tito, would be taken to a prison. It still happens in China/North Korea. My point is, it's just not something that happened in Soviet Union alone.

But the thing is, no one can seriously believe that Putin's trying to re-establish the Soviet Union, because it would've never work, because there's just too much hatred between the ex-republics. Plus, I'm guessing he's smart enough to understand that the west wouldn't allow that to happen. It's mission impossible, and i am certain that Putin's aware of it.

a reply to: Nikola014

Whether you "believe" it or not, it's been his stated aim to restore Russia to her "glory days" since his nomination as PM back in 1999 and his Presidential nomination speech in 2000 (I think..maybe 2001?) goes into great detail about what he would like. In fact, reading it now the warning signs were there for the West as to exactly what he had in mind.

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Yes, I do see what you saying and you are correct. Those were the times of the communism. It happened in my country also. Everyone who were talking against Tito, would be taken to a prison. It still happens in China/North Korea. My point is, it's just not something that happened in Soviet Union alone.

But the thing is, no one can seriously believe that Putin's trying to re-establish the Soviet Union, because it would've never work, because there's just too much hatred between the ex-republics. Plus, I'm guessing he's smart enough to understand that the west wouldn't allow that to happen. It's mission impossible, and i am certain that Putin's aware of it.

I don't think that he's trying to re-establish the USSR. Even Putin - unless he's being seriously misinformed - has to realise that Russia's neighbours would fight that as hard as possible. But I do think that he's trying to re-establish Russia's position as a major power in Europe. And he's being heavy-handed about it.

a reply to: stumason

Yes i remember you giving me the links of those speeches. But, as I have told you that time, it has happened almost 15 years ago, many things can change during that time, in politics specific. I will say it, they are a proof of a sort, but it just happened to damn ago, so i don't know if they can be taken as a proof now.

a reply to: Nikola014

While the world has changed much, Russia has not. In fact, they've needed the time to be able to actually generate enough cash to be able to overhaul their aged military. It's no coincidence that after 2008 - Georgia invasion - there was radical reform of the Russian Army etc and now it is a half-decent fighting force again, hence the muscle flexing.

I agree, planning that far in advance is risky, but it is more of a roadmap than a cast iron scheme and so far, he's hit every waypoint.

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

You got this all wrong man. I am not a pro-Russian. I am a Yugoslavian citizen. You forget that Yugoslavia never got along with Soviet Union... Just a little bit of history for you

You forget that Yugoslavia does not exist as a nation state anymore. Perhaps you meant "Serbian"? I'd expect that if you were a resident of Belgrade, you might have noticed the violent civil war which divided your own country. Just a little bit of history for you, tovarisch.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: Nikola014

Whether you "believe" it or not, it's been his stated aim to restore Russia to her "glory days" since his nomination as PM back in 1999 and his Presidential nomination speech in 2000 (I think..maybe 2001?) goes into great detail about what he would like. In fact, reading it now the warning signs were there for the West as to exactly what he had in mind.

Even if it is his intent it would be better to work behind the scene politically to move Russia back toward democracy rather than harm our relations further which would make the above harder to do. Putin wont be around forever. If we hurt our relations with the Russian people we will only prolong the change that will come when Putin is dead. He wont live forever.

Best to work toward friendship to keep door open for political posturing among Russia's people. Ultimately Russia's future is up to it's people not Putin.

a reply to: Xeven

This may come out as a shock for you, but actually, a lot of Russians support Putin simply because he's opposing the west. It may take quite a few generations to pass for the US and Russia to be friends( assuming humans didn't previously destroyed themselves ).

a reply to: stumason

Whether you "believe" it or not, it's been his stated aim to restore Russia to her "glory days" since his nomination as PM back in 1999

And in all that time he still has only "captured" Crimea?

Meanwhile, in the Western "fold"-- several countries have become victims of actual "humanitarian" bombing campaigns, invasion and subjugation for resources and territory.

Its not about what we believe…

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: Xeven

This may come out as a shock for you, but actually, a lot of Russians support Putin simply because he's opposing the west. It may take quite a few generations to pass for the US and Russia to be friends( assuming humans didn't previously destroyed themselves ).

What is the Russian people beef with the "West"? Just curious. I grew up in the cold war and never disliked the Russian "People" though I feared and even hated Soviet Government. I think most Americans wish the best for the Russian people. Not all of us like Putin though he seems like a bully but of course we only see what they put on TV.

a reply to: stumason

That said, if Russia continues to behave in the manner it does, they may well ignore that and admit them anyway.

Nice try behaving as though the EU is "vacillating" about admitting Ukraine to the EU. Everything up to now with that beleaguered country has been precisely about subjugating them into the West.

a reply to: Xeven

Well, I think it has to do with all the propaganda that was going on for 30 or so years, plus all this that is happening in the Ukraine right now, will make younger generations of Russians hate west also. That's why I don't think much will change in the future, but who knows. Putin's probably presenting it like it's Russia against the west. The seed of hatred is planted, and it will escalated, I can guarantee you that...

What Georgian invasion,stu?

The Georgian government were shelling the more Russian leaning civilians with tank shells and grad rockets!

The BBC looked Into the conflict afterwards and pointed the finger of blame at Georgia

Yeah they went in and stopped the Georgian military machines from further bloodshed,and it's exactly what our country would do if civilians were being targeted

If our dear PM said he wanted our country to get back it's lost glory should all countries be wary that the old red coats are returning? Course not!



Over the last 14 years who has killed more civilians,the west or Russia in wars?

This Russia and Putin is evil rubbish on this site is absurd considering our countries very recent history

Even the site owner says Putin is a megalomaniac mass murderer:-/

Well I spose he has eliminated a lot of journalists:-/

originally posted by: Whereismypassword
What Georgian invasion,stu?



Over the last 14 years who has killed more civilians,the west or Russia in wars?

This Russia and Putin is evil rubbish on this site is absurd considering our countries very recent history.

I tend to agree with you. Ukraine matters are certainly in the National Interest of Russia. Putin is doing the same thing the US does when US National Interests are threatened. We the US should really just stay out of this. Crimea is of HUGE National interest to Russia and I understand exactly why Putin did what he did there.

I don't however agree with how Putin is dealing with it no more than I think the US should be policing everything in the world. It's as if EVERYTHING is now a threat to US National Interest to some of our leaders. They want to fight wars about everything.

We the US, need to be more choosey what battles we decide to get in to. Seems like we just make it worse. As far as I am concerned we have no dog in this fight and should just stay out of it.

The trouble is respect for both our countries has dropped over the recent years in many countries,we should inspire but the opposite is more near the truth

Rather than shout a war of words with other countries pushing them further away,we should unite on things that matter too us both

Ukraine should be told by the west to use the ballot box and cease actions,and Russia should then reply in effect to tell these people to do the same

Our common enemy should be ISIS before they are allowed to corrupt more minds and boost their already high numbers,surely an international task force could be quickly rubber stamped and used to great effect

Not bombing from above but snatch and grab squads to make them serve justice rather than become martyrs like they want

If we take our eye off the ball someone in ISIS is going to infect himself with a deadly virus and do a lot of air flights:-/

Old feuds need to end,and new friendships made