What do you guy thin about the new ID card Bill

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- Because some will have the cards anyway.
(and if they go with full biometrics that is going to be very difficult to forge so the likelyhood is most will be genuine.)

My bet is that within a fairly short time people will be using these in large numbers.
Especially if there are various incentives and it acts as a combined UK Passport and Driving Licence for about the same cast as those 2 separate things (which seems to be likely).
It'll be just as with a driving licence now - except driving licences aren't hooked into a 24/7 on-line national database.

Some people will get them to use as cover to appear innocent and innocuous. There will be all sorts of ways these will come into general usage in time.

I suspect that many businesses will start expecting their usage and people will just start using them more and more.
I imagine the requirement is not going to be one due to an instruction or demand from the law but the people around us in commercial life as much as anything.

(Imagine if car or truck hire companies started refusing to hire their vehicles out unless people show ID cards, they already demand a copy of your driving licence. That kind of thing)

Just the nice law abideing non-paranoid plebs of the U.K.

- Like any other European country that has them you'll find people will get along with them whatever.

Hope they don't go with full biometrics.

It's possible to survive without alot if these things. I heard you need them to claim benifits im not sure if you do but even if you did its possible to live without them.

ID cards..It wasn't just about missile defence.
First it was identity cards - one of the measures being considered by the government as part of the wider attempt to tighten up security in the wake of the US attacks. He pulled out his ID cards from 60 years ago and pointed out that the ANC in Apartheid-era South Africa had burned their cards which they saw as a "tool of repression". There was historical context in the speech. He reminded the audience how Hugh Gaitskell had stood up against armed intervention during the Suez crisis, how Clement Attlee had flown to the US to prevent them carrying out a threat to drop an atomic bomb on Korea.

ID cards are rolling on...
news.bbc.co.uk... ferences_2001/labour/1574135.stm

Compulsory biometric ID cards and a central database of all U.K. citizens could be created by 2010 under controversial legislation unveiled by the government in the Queen's speech
The ID card will contain a piece of biometric information, most likely an iris or fingerprint scan, and will be combined with passports and driving licences, which will have a biometric element by 2008, according to the draft Bill. The compulsory nature of the card, which will cost �35, will be decided in two phases. The government will have the power to mandate that an ID card is produced to use certain public services -- an element retained from Blunkett's original "entitlement" card plans. More worrying for privacy campaigners is that the government will have the power after five years to make the carrying or production of ID cards compulsory.
As outlined previously by the Home Office it is estimated the basic system will cost �180m to set-up, finally rising to some �3bn. David Blunkett said in a statement that ID cards will help "tackle the challenges of the 21st century" including terrorism, organised crime and illegal immigration.
"The draft Identity Cards Bill is about taking the difficult decisions now needed to prepare Britain for the future. It will set out our plans for an incremental approach to the introduction of a compulsory national identity cards scheme," he said.
www.zdnet.com.au...
........

[edit on 24-12-2004 by Horus_Re]

mmm. rings a bell.

Behind the worldly spirit of today's "freedom," the lack of respect for the Church of Christ, older people, parents and teachers who have fear of God, is hidden spiritual slavery, anxiety and anarchy which lead the world to an impasse, the destruction of man's body and soul.

Therefore, behind the perfect system of the computerised "convenience cards", is hidden the universal dictatorship, the slavery of the Antichrist. Also "he causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: his number is 666" (Rev 13:16-18).

Its nice to see that some members cannot see the problems with ID cards. These card store nearly everything about you, the card isnt be made to "fight terrorism", its to monitor what we do.

Originally posted by infinite
Its nice to see that some members cannot see the problems with ID cards.

How so?

Oh my god! Could it be? That wollie Blair the anti-christ? I always thought he was too stupid for such a privaliged role in history!

[edit on 24-12-2004 by shorty]

Originally posted by shorty
How so?

Oh my god! Could it be? That wollie Blair the anti-christ? I always thought he was too stupid for such a privaliged role in history!

[edit on 24-12-2004 by shorty]

lol Blair is just some wannabe communists dictator who wants to throw this country into a police state.

I will never have an ID, throw me in prison, but i refuse to be "tagged".

Originally posted by infinite


I will never have an ID, throw me in prison, but i refuse to be "tagged".

Would you really go that far? Why not join one of the sevral rogue groups that will plague our future plice state.

Surely going to prison is somewhat contradiory you want to avoid a police state and yet you'd go to prison.

Originally posted by shorty
Surely going to prison is somewhat contradiory you want to avoid a police state and yet you'd go to prison.

True.....
Maybe ill be abit extreme and move to France *shudders* no, screw that. But can anyone really say ID cards would be any benefit to this country??

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by shorty
Surely going to prison is somewhat contradiory you want to avoid a police state and yet you'd go to prison.

True.....
Maybe ill be abit extreme and move to France

*shudders* no, screw that. But can anyone really say ID cards would be any benefit to this country??

Dam right, going to France is a step too far

No offense.

Im sure that nobody can say they would be a benifit.

Originally posted by shorty
Im sure that nobody can say they would be a benifit.

They only people who can say it will benifit us, is the ones who are pushing this bill into our faces.

But surely they cant do this if most of Britain and im pretty sure that most of the intelligent population don't want this ID card bill to be passed.

Isn't this country meant to be a democracy? But how often are these things publicly voted on? Was this voted on? Not as far as i know but i have been known to wrong before. Mostly these things are just voted on in the house of lords i think and be honest most of the lords probably just do things to make it easy on themselves rather than whats best for us.

Originally posted by shorty
Isn't this country meant to be a democracy? But how often are these things publicly voted on? Was this voted on? Not as far as i know but i have been known to wrong before. Mostly these things are just voted on in the house of lords i think and be honest most of the lords probably just do things to make it easy on themselves rather than whats best for us.

It will only get voted in the house, not a public vote
If it went public, the chances our labour would loose.

Originally posted by infinite
It will only get voted in the house, not a public vote

If it went public, the chances our labour would loose.

They probably would but why isn't it a public vote?

Anyone know?

Originally posted by shorty

They probably would but why isn't it a public vote?

Anyone know?

Well, i dont know to be honest, other members might. If the pressure keeps building then i think it will go public.

Originally posted by infinite
If the pressure keeps building then i think it will go public.

Thets hope

Originally posted by shorty

Originally posted by infinite
If the pressure keeps building then i think it will go public.

Thets hope

lets hope indeed
we will be screwed if this gets passed

Originally posted by infinite

we will be screwed if this gets passed

Rephrase that you'll be screwed under 18s or 16 dont have them or so i hear

We will indeed but what to do? Is there is anything to do?

[edit on 24-12-2004 by shorty]

Originally posted by shorty
Rephrase that you'll be screwed under 18s or 16 dont have them or so i hear

We will indeed but what to do? Is there is anything to do?

[edit on 24-12-2004 by shorty]

Protest, public debates
and the creation of new pressure groups to gain support

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by shorty
Rephrase that you'll be screwed under 18s or 16 dont have them or so i hear

We will indeed but what to do? Is there is anything to do?

[edit on 24-12-2004 by shorty]

Protest, public debates
and the creation of new pressure groups to gain support

Lots of people protest and most of the time people ignore them.

And once people have them they will get used to them the key is to make sure people dont get a chance to try them out. IMHO

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Why not?
They have ID cards and it didn't stop the Madrid bombing yet they still keep the cards. Why?
I think that is a fair question to ask in this debate seeing as the failure of the cards to stop the attacks has been mentioned.

Because they are not us. If they want ID cards, fair play, let them have them. If ID cards are going to be of benefit to THIS country, we'll have them too.

Are you drunk again?
Spain is a member of the EU, a co-signatory to the ECHR (European Convention on Human Rights), a modern western democracy and a reasonable comparison in this matter to the UK.

What the hell are you on about with Iran, Cuba and North Korea? In what way are they at all comparable to the UK?

No, i'm not drunk. I wasn't drunk when i posted this or when you tried this lame attempt at humour/argument last time. Spain may be whatever you say but it is still not the UK. There are also many modern western democracies which do not have ID cards, maybe we should take them as an example instead, eh matey?

The Iran/Cuba thing was to show that what works for one country may not work for another.

Because they may be asked for (or just become the accepted norm) to use for certain activities, for instance car or truck hire companies and travel tickets already ask for a driving licence or passport ID, this may become something where ID cards are required too.

LMAO. So these guys who can apparently get fake passports and drivers licenses will be using legit ID cards. pfft.

The cops would have logged that they stopped and asked for the ID (taking basic info down at the time).....just like with instructing driving documents to be produced. It may all add to the information and help solve the crime.

Yeah, because if i'd just commited a crime and was asked to produce my documents on the way, i'd definitely turn up to the police station later on. /sarcasm

Sorry to derail the thread but I had to answer these queries, won't happen again, sorry, Chris out.