Craig Murray UK ambassador to Uzbekistan Blows Whistle

First.. i have no idea if this is embedded correctly

Next this i a video of a former abassador for the UK talking about the exact reasons we all went to war in afghanistan,
He also talks about being fully aware of the lack of WMD's when we all went into Iraq


This is a big step a fair few of the people who frequent this site knew these things, now we have another senoir figure admitting to them -


This is from a pro independance speach for Scotland but pleasewatch the video.

a reply to: GonzoSinister

So...

First of all, I completely agree with his analysis of the way that the War on Terror came about, the way it was prosecuted, and the reasons for it. Here on ATS, the membership have discussed these very issues at length, and many members here would agree that there is something deeply wrong with the official line on many topics connected to it.

BUT...

That is not a reason to leave the United Kingdom of great Britain. It is a reason to speak out, to make such noise as to shake the foundations of Westminster, and dislodge the rotten elements at its heart, which allowed this horrific conspiracy to bear such corrupted fruit. This man is right about an awful lot of things, but if he was ever proud to be driven in a car flying the flag of this nation, then he ought to have been proud enough to fight for its soul, rather than abandon it to the flailing tentacles of the nightmare system which prevails over its inner workings.

His solution to this is cowardice, to run away and try again somewhere else...such a puling, pathetic attitude to dealing with this issue, tail between legs, not turned at bay and ready to fight. I find this mans use of the truth to lever the peoples of our nation apart, utterly reprehensible. The correct thing to do with this sort of information, is to spread it, force it to the front and centre of attention across the British Isles, to the point where others, who have better, deeper, more actionable information about the key players, speak out as well, culminating in the great mass of the people rising up and taking the capital from the evildoers who have been running it.

Appeasement by fracturing the nation, is not an answer to anything.

a reply to: GonzoSinister

he wont live much longer if he keeps talking like that .

Wow! He spells the war on terror out in no uncertain terms. Now can we at least put the Bushes and Cheney behind bars and charge them with one count of murder for each of the people who died because of their disgusting greed? I volunteer to be keeper of the keys.

I wish wisdom in Scotland when the vote comes.

a reply to: TrueBrit

So you know TrueBrit...

i am not a yes support, i will say i have found the no campaign to be woeful at best... but thats for another thread...

im with about face on this,could this not be used in court as long as he can produce evidence?

and yes aightism i expect a dead politician shortly....

really interesting the part about trying to hire the taliban to protect the pipeline and when they said no afghanistan was invaded.I think it`s a safe bet to assume that a deal was eventually worked out and that is why the foreign armies have been withdrawn from afghanistan.
I think the deal that was finally worked out is that the taliban are going to be paid to leave the pipeline alone and not attack it.

a reply to: GonzoSinister

If he can produce evidence, then he bloody well should have by now! There are plenty of people he could have leaked it to over the last decade and a bit, Wikileaks representatives being just one target that I can call to mind.

There have been inquests, closed door proceedings and HUGE media attention on the War on Terror over the years. I am sure everyone in Britain remembers the storm in the press and news media, surrounding the "Dodgy Dossier", the false information which lead to the invasion of Iraq. The time for this announcement, was then!

This leads me to suspect that either:

a) His conclusions are genuine, that he believes what he says, and is a bloody coward and a bastard for leaving it this long to rock the boat, purely to further a political agenda which puts the people of Scotland, England, Wales, and the British Irish at risk.

b) His conclusions are lies or some sort of psyop like concept, invented to play into the widely held belief in all quarters that something deeply fishy happened, and is happening, during the War on Terror, with the same result as above, except with malice rather than cowardice.

c) His conclusions were honest, but that he has been sitting on this with the specific intent of furthering some agenda later on using them as a lever.

I find the timing of his revalations to be deeply suspicious, but I would agree that if he has ANY actionable data which the public lacks, then every single last kilobyte should be handed to the people for them to look at, and investigate the import of, and should not be used as a political football, or indeed as a carrot on a stick. I think this man should be forced to give up whatever data he has, to legal representatives of the action groups who have an interest in this situation, like Stop The War and the like.

a reply to: GonzoSinister

a reply to: GonzoSinister

Sorry for the blank post – I’ve been having problems posting today.

In any case, a worthy topic – video worth watching. Confirms what many ATS-ers have believed for years

a reply to: TrueBrit

Hi Truebro,

Can I just offer another perspective on this?

The people and politicians of Scotland have spoken out against, and fought against the will of successive westminster governments over several decades now.

We have consistently voiced our opposition to illegal wars, invasions, nuclear weapons etc
Our politicians have voted against these things many times when given the opportunity.

But, our voices are not being heard.
Our politicians are outnumbered 10:1 by the lapdogs of westminster.

We, the people of Scotland, keep getting successive governments that we haven't voted for - worse still, we keep getting governments that we have deliberately voted AGAINST.

The current "democracy" is failing us. The London-centric policies of successive UK governments keep taking decisions that go against the will and interests of the Scottish people, and we can do nothing to change that from within.

But now we have an opportunity to become free of that.
An opportunity to stand apart from it, and to lead by shining example.
Get rid of nuclear WMD's. Denounce illegal invasions, occupations and wars. Have our voice heard.

Our problem is NOT with our friends or family, the people in the rest of the UK.
It lies SOLELY with the UK Westminster government and it's despicable policies which WE never endorsed or voted for.

My hope is that Scotland gains Independence, and freedom from westminster.
We have already set a date for a Scottish general election, which will take place shortly after the declaration of Independence. We would then get the government that the people of Scotland actually vote for, for the first time in decades. Our governmental policies would be determined by politicians living and working in Scotland, not London.
And we could end forever any association with the aforementioned illegal wars, occupations etc.

We would still be British. We form a very large part of the British Isles after all.

But we would be free. Free of the wrongdoing of others, and when we mess up, as we probably sometimes will... We will have to stand tall and accept it, then look to fixing it by ourselves, without any reason or excuse to lay the blame elsewhere. For me, that's what it's all about. Taking on responsibility for our OWN ACTIONS AND DECISIONS.

We can't do that without change, and on Sept 18th, we have the opportunity to do just that.

kindest regards,
Gordi

a reply to: Gordi The Drummer

Gbro...

I understand the initiating factors behind a desire for independence all too well. My issue is that the factors which drive Scotland to wish independence from Westminster, are not any different to the factors which make me as a proud Brit, ashamed of my government, angry at having no voice and no power to change the rot for the better of my own accord, and that is a feeling shared by eighty percent or more of the people I associate with, and indeed the folks I meet during a normal working day!

These factors are not solely affecting the Scottish, or Scotland. They affect all citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, and with that in mind, it seems perverse that the solution being considered in Scotland, is to walk away from it. Without unity, no change can come in Westminster. While I respect and understand the desire to be freed from the cancerous muck that rules the roost, Scotland simply excising itself from the equation will leave the rest of the UK no better than it was before, but with even fewer voter numbers to support lasting, and positive change in parliament.

Gbro, you know I love you, and I am sure you can appreciate that as a person whose blood is sourced from the four corners of the Kingdoms, I love Scotland. We share lineage, we share ethos, we share commitment and attitudes, we, THE PEOPLE of Britain should be united and able to act as one for the betterment of all, and with Scotland seeming to retreat from what will almost certainly end up being a knock down drag out fight for the very soul of this nation, I despair at our chances of ever conquering the foul blackness in parliament.

The Better Together Campaign has failed to state the case with any energy, because those involved, including Brown, Darling... these men were both instrumental parts of the machinery of oblivion which has taken hold, and so could not outright state the case correctly without making hypocrites of themselves. The reason we are better together, is nothing to do with the risk posed to the economies of both Scotland and the UK by division. It is nothing to do with oil reserves, natural gas, or a fair distribution of taxes and resources. No.

The reason we are better together as a people, is that together as a single entity, we can, if our backs get up against a wall, strike back with great vengeance and power against the heart of darkness, sitting spider like in the center of the M25. Divided we have not even the chance to valiantly ruin ourselves against that shadowy bastion with even a snowflakes chance in hell of success. All we will have is suicide by rebellion (which is very different to rebellion by suicide, just in case anyone misunderstood that phrase). With every otherwise stout heart that abandons the Kingdom, those who remain will be even less able to escape the bleakness of a future rampant with corruption, with blood that they did not ask to be shed coating their hands, with dust in their mouths. We will be left facing this horror alone and without the numbers to even scratch the beast.

I do not want to beg, because it is not something which comes naturally to me. None the less, I beg of you, of all of Scotland, do not abandon us now, of all times! Please, stand with us! Divided, there is no hope for a future less bleak than the one which stretches before us currently.

*oddly, I am weeping as I type, which is also jolly unusual.*

Thats my two pence on this.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Gordi The Drummer


Gbro, you know I love you, and I am sure you can appreciate that as a person whose blood is sourced from the four corners of the Kingdoms, I love Scotland. We share lineage, we share ethos, we share commitment and attitudes, we, THE PEOPLE of Britain should be united and able to act as one for the betterment of all, and with Scotland seeming to retreat from what will almost certainly end up being a knock down drag out fight for the very soul of this nation, I despair at our chances of ever conquering the foul blackness in parliament.

I don't know Truebrit, maybe too close to the issue to see it clearly? I feel we in the states share lineage, ethos, commitments and attitudes with our brothers across the pond in the UK but I wouldn't wish for us to absorb you or the other way around.

Because the UK had assimilated Scottland long before our birth doesn't make it right. It reminds me of Hawaii in a way. If they genuinely had a choice they would be independent themselves. They are not even particularly nice to fellow citizens from other states (with exceptions of course). But after all this time they still hold a level of disdain to wit "we" (fellow citizens) are called Haolies, Hawaiian for foreigner.

If any people wants to be free from another groups ideology, I say go for it. The two nations can still be friends, probably more so when the UK no longer speaks for them.

a reply to: TrueBrit

This is one of the incredibly rare cases where the person leaked the info at their own expense, lost their job and has been the focus of government smear campaigns for the last 10 years.

He exposed all this in 2002 when he was still ambassador to Turkmenistan, which led to him being fired from his role as Ambassador to Uzbekistan.

He wrote a book all about it called 'Murder in Samarkland' about 10 years ago exposing all this. After the government tried to censor the book from publication and started a smear campaign against him (calling him an alcoholic etc... to destroy his character) he released the free electronic copy. www.craigmurray.org.uk...

I'm not into conspiracies, but this guy is the real deal with the evidence to prove it. All the documents/original emails etc.. are on his website here - www.craigmurray.org.uk... thought the government have asked for a few to be removed due to 'crown copyright' (in the process admitting they're real and the government originally wrote them).

I think the originals are still available somewhere on the internet as it took a few months for the government to force him to take the info down.


Here's a video of him giving evidence to parliament inquiry about UK sponsored torture a few years back - www.youtube.com... it's hard to get any more official and public blowing the whistle than that.

Hmmmm..

Craig Murray, the disgraced former Ambassador with an axe to grind? The former Ambassador dismissed for being undiplomatic, hiring prostitutes and exchanging UK visas for sex? The same bloke who left his wife and mother of two children for an Uzbek lapdancer who he brought back to the UK?

While he may well be telling the truth, it is equally likely he is simply hitting out at his former employers who chucked him aside for being a corrupt little arsehole - not to mention he's now a "blogger" who could probably do with the extra traffic. He has a lapdancers son to take care of now...

a reply to: stumason

Those were the smears used against him to fire him, prior to him announcing UK/US complicity in drug smuggling and torture he was hailed as a saint - I think the only one that's true is the lapdancer one.

It's always a good idea never to take anyone's tale at face value but I've been following his work since the extraordinary rendition leaks and overnight he went from 'golden boy' to 'alcoholic, sex offender' in government press releases.

Using Craig Murray's argument that the reason you should be voting yes in the referendum is due to the fact that those terrible people who were in charge of politics in the UK were only out to make vast amounts of money at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives within the troubled regions he talks about, I have to think surely he means vote a massive no. The people who were the decision making elite where Scottish ! Blair is Scottish Brown is Scottish in fact 72 MPs were in the English parliament while Blair and Brown where running the show

a reply to: astra001uk

There's no English parliament/House of Commons, it's all UK - which means 72 out of 650 seats meant Scotland was underrepresented. /sorry to be a massive pedant.

a reply to: GonzoSinister

What an honourable and brave bloke.

Good for him...now, what rocks are that bloody pair Blair and Bush lying under...they are proven to not only be liars, but liars to the house and the electorate, which is more than worthy of hard time in clink.

I won't hold my breath waiting for an arrest warrant though.

a reply to: bastion
You are aware there are only 5.295 million people living in Scotland ? ( about the same number of people who live in Yorkshire)
The Scottish were not underrepresented at all I used the English parliament to distinguish from the Scottish or welsh parliament