40 Problems with Christianity

I found these points to be both thought provoking and good for debate. It's a worthwhile read, whether you are a Christian or not.

While I believe in God, I do not personally believe in Christianity and I think this article really puts into words, why I feel that way. I was a both a Baptist and a Methodist in the past, and have a lot of experience in/with the Church. I put this in the conspiracies in Religions forum because there are several conspiracies that this article touches on. Most noteworthy among them is the conspiracy to paint the Romans in a Good light and the paint the Jewish people in a bad light and how Paul hi-jacked Christianity. I never liked that SOB!

I think it would be well worth taking some of these specific points and arguing them here, rather than tackle the article as a whole.

Source:

www.patheos.com...

This is just the usual pile of complaints that one can find on loads of anti-Christian web sites and blogs.

If you don't want to believe, just don't and be done with it. Proselytizing atheists are every bit as annoying as proselytizing Christians are.

I did see one bit of obvious dishonesty there, though:

On the other hand, Bill Gates, an atheist who has lived a virtuous life and has donated more than $27,000,000,000 to global health, development, and education will be sent to Hell. This irrational and senseless result is entirely consistent with the dogma of conventional Christianity.

Bill Gates attends a Catholic church, is not an atheist and it is generally held that the creation of the Gates Foundation was the work of his Catholic wife Melinda.

Bill Gates, the richest man in the world, revealed in a recent interview that his family goes to a Catholic church and that religious morality inspires a lot of his charity work. He also shared his personal thoughts on God and the biggest issues facing the world today.

"The moral systems of religion, I think, are super important. We've raised our kids in a religious way; they've gone to the Catholic church that Melinda goes to and I participate in. I've been very lucky, and therefore I owe it to try and reduce the inequity in the world. And that's kind of a religious belief. I mean, it's at least a moral belief," Gates says in an interview with Rolling Stone in the March 27 issue of the magazine.

When asked if he believed in God, he responded, "I think it makes sense to believe in God, but exactly what decision in your life you make differently because of it, I don't know."

At the same time, he said he agrees with "people like Richard Dawkins that mankind felt the need for creation myths."

"Before we really began to understand disease and the weather and things like that, we sought false explanations for them. Now science has filled in some of the realm – not all – that religion used to fill," he said. "But the mystery and the beauty of the world is overwhelmingly amazing, and there's no scientific explanation of how it came about. To say that it was generated by random numbers, that does seem, you know, sort of an uncharitable view [laughs]." (Source)

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Sorry, atheists, find another philanthropic hero.

a reply to: adjensen

After seeing your snipet about bill gates being gods gift to man, I won't bother to read that drivel. Anyone who supports killing and depopulation is not "virtuous".

danieltowsey.wordpress.com...

You're right, adjensen, just another whiny atheist with views no more muddled then any religion.

a reply to: adjensen

If you don't want to believe, just don't and be done with it.

You mean agree or shut up?

That sounds close minded to me. How are we supposed to learn anything without questioning everything? Especially nowadays with the free flow of more information than ever.

I bask in the light of more truth, not less.

a reply to: intrptr

You mean agree or shut up?

No, I mean "40 Problems with Christianity" won't change the mind of anyone. It is a waste of time, an exercise in the justification of a mind already made up.

a reply to: lonweld

Anyone who supports killing and depopulation is not "virtuous".

Another person who cannot comprehend what Bill Gates actually said...
Find a quote from Mr.Gates that endorses killing a single human being...


He said, paraphrasing... That Earth is at 6billion, expected to grow to 8billion...
So with healthcare and prenatal services we can reduce that extra 2billion by 10-15%...
So it only reaches 7.5billion roughly...


He has never said "let's kill 15% of the living population"!

a reply to: adjensen

I did see one bit of obvious dishonesty there, though:

This is where I stopped reading this atheist blog... If they can't get it right within no.4 of 40 why waste our time!!!

a reply to: adjensen

It is a waste of time, an exercise in the justification of a mind already made up.

That is our ongoing problem, 'minds made up'. One way or the other the progression of human history is always playing catch up to the truth. Even today.

What I hold as waste of time is those with minds already made saying this is a waste of time. If you choose not to question your belief thats fine…

So many sooo tired of that close mindedness.

a reply to: amazing

What a perfectly round number! There used to be a site that went through the bible verse by verse and tore it apart. Unfortunately, Atheists, like most modern Christians, take all of that stuff literally when most of the bible is not talking about what it appears to be on the surface.

The main problem about Christianity is that it is a religion instead of a faith.

I usually don't do the "I Stopped Reading At" but I agree with others here...

Bill Gates?

He won't just go to hell...
I'll bet he will buy all of it and eventually remove the start menu!

originally posted by: adjensen
a reply to: intrptr

You mean agree or shut up?

No, I mean "40 Problems with Christianity" won't change the mind of anyone. It is a waste of time, an exercise in the justification of a mind already made up.

i agree with this, if only because theres already dozens of threads just like it.

a reply to: amazing

I think one funny thing about complaint from atheists when specifically criticizing Christianity is the literal view they take. When a Christian takes the bible 100% literally, they are scoffed at (perhaps rightfully so) but then an atheist will pick apart the Character of the Christian god using their scripture literally.

I've done the same thing many times but I never realized it was sort of ironic until now.

You guys are missing several points here.

a. I'm not an atheist.
b. I have real questions about Christianity and he makes some good points that I think or have myself.
c. Taking the Bill Gates statement and then throwing the others out is the height of ignorance. For me, this was a point by point, discussion. I agree with some and not with others.

I myself have some issues with Christianity, namely, the point on taking the bible literally. Many Christians do, but to take it a step further, what should I take literally. What is the point of the bible? If not to be taken literally then what? Stories of Morality? If so, then why not take out the bad parts and the killings and so on.

The point of this thread was not to Christian Bash and I only saw this article today. Discuss?

a reply to: amazing

Taking the Bill Gates statement and then throwing the others out is the height of ignorance. For me, this was a point by point, discussion. I agree with some and not with others.

No offence pal, but if they can't et it right in one of the first aspects, why would I want to spend more valuable time reading an atheists point of view on Christianity...

We can read that daily here, no doubt this thread will end up littered with the same arguments...
Hopefully so for the sake of your thread, but I'd like to see something different at least...

I'll give the rest a go out of respect to your request, but if any more nonsense pops up I'm not promising I'll finish the article!

a reply to: amazing

The point of this thread was not to Christian Bash and I only saw this article today. Discuss?

What's to discuss? As I said, there is nothing here that hasn't been discussed over and over and over and over, so there are reasonable answers to all of these, just spend a little time googling and you will find them. There are dozens of threads on ATS alone talking about all of this stuff.

If you want to discuss something on that list specifically, post it, but no one (sane) is going to respond to your minimal OP with a forty point refutation of the article that you linked to. Life's too short to waste time arguing the same stuff over and over and over and over with people whose minds are already made up, which is all that article is intended to do.

I have to agree that these are all arguments that the average angry atheist picks up and slings out and we Christians have seen and heard many, many times. In the case of age of accountability and when a person is a person, the second is only a conundrum if you have a problem with the idea of the first for example.

And of the ones I read, they also reflect a fairly shallow understanding of the idea of faith and Christianity in general as though the person in question hadn't put much thought into them.

Take the first one for example, why whine about only getting a relative lifespan on maybe 100 years (that's extremely generous for most of us) to decide to either choose God or reject him? Yes, in God's eyes that is the blink of an eye to decide between destruction or eternal life, but then, how many times do you get no more time than that to make decisions in your day-to-day life that will impact the rest of your life? Are you whining about how unfair that is? If not, then why is this one going to matter to you?

Think about it this way - Your entire life here is the consideration you are giving to the question God is asking: Are you choosing Me or rejecting Me? It seems like a lot while you are here, but when you pass on, it will seem as the blink of an eye. Choose wisely.

originally posted by: amazing
I found these points to be both thought provoking and good for debate. It's a worthwhile read, whether you are a Christian or not.

While I believe in God, I do not personally believe in Christianity and I think this article really puts into words, why I feel that way. I was a both a Baptist and a Methodist in the past, and have a lot of experience in/with the Church. I put this in the conspiracies in Religions forum because there are several conspiracies that this article touches on. Most noteworthy among them is the conspiracy to paint the Romans in a Good light and the paint the Jewish people in a bad light and how Paul hi-jacked Christianity. I never liked that SOB!

I think it would be well worth taking some of these specific points and arguing them here, rather than tackle the article as a whole.

Source:

www.patheos.com...

Well, someone's opinion on a blog really counts for something, right?

Let's go through these...
1: The concept of salvation is not new to Christianity, found in other religions. In Egyptian afterlife, your soul is weighed with a feather. In Greek afterlife, you have to pay the boatman on the River Styx. So even if you do believe, in Christianity you will still be judged for your works.

2: Christianity didn't invent the afterlife or the requirements for reaching one place or the other.

3: Eternal hell was not the creation of the imagination by Christians, in fact it was a part of every religion, including Hinduism.

4: Christianity does no accept that one can live a sinful life and then claim freedom of salvation. That is not a core tenet of salvation, it might be according to Calvinism, but that's a whole other ball game in itself. Nope, Hitler could not ever go to heaven, he broke the commandment "thou shalt not kill" and by continuing in it, no...not gonna' make it.

5: Blah, blah, blah.."God is evil, God kills people, God does this, God does that..." If there is no God or one believes in the natural only, then according to natural laws, God cannot be charged with anything. Survival of the fittest, right? No morality means that God did not break any moral laws, only want you want to call moral in your worldview. A law is just a law, but according to Clarence Darrow, he claims that the only way one breaks a law is because it is a law in the first place, remove the law, then no crime was committed.

6: That refers to the curse, not the punishment, we still will have to face God for our works. Jesus redeemed, that means bought us back from the curse of death. Jesus never said you won't find punishment, He did say that He is the "resurrection and the life". In Him there is life. He that believes on Jesus will have everlasting life. It's not about punishment, but from the curse of death that reigned from the fall of Adam. You are dead now where you sit, you are a dying creature, that is fact. There is nothing in yourself or that you can do that will extend your life beyond what you will live out. But the direct actions of this life have an impact on your spirit, not the other way around.

7: Umm, please read my above answers. What you do belies or upholds what you believe. "There is a way that seems right unto man, but the end of his ways are death". That means that whatever way you believe and seem right to you, apart from God, it is your ways that are death. What you do has to reflect what you believe.

8: All religions believe that.

9: Again, found in all religions.

10: Miracles still happen, but people don't want to see that they do. Endless stories out there of miracles.

11: Jesus will come again, the Bible just says "watch and pray" so that you are ready. But with the many people dying daily, have they made themselves ready for that moment of death?

12: Just because those were written after 33 AD, does not mean they were not accurate as those people lived during that time. We simply don't have all the documents written, there could have been hundreds written by those authors. The author here is assuming those were the only letters written.

13: Wrong.

14: Based on the wrong of #13, so null and void.

15: There was no Xerox or fax machine in those days, and it proves they were eyewitnesses. Please, #15 is absurd. If you have a trial today, even the eyewitnesses won't say everything the same as the others. They only include things they remember.

16: Absurd like #15.

17: Face palming, that's the same absurdity like #15 and #16.

18: "What most likely happened" is an assumption, the author is putting in his own opinion. Moving along.

19: Judas did what was prophesied that he would do. The OT has many references to this.

20: Wrong assumption, Jesus WAS NOT born in Nazareth, He was born in Bethlehem. The fact this author makes the wrong claim now nullifies this statement.

21: It may not have been a Roman custom, but the Romans were well-known to allow their vassal states to enjoy their customs, and it is clear that it was a Jewish custom of that time, not a Roman. Therefore, another false claim by the author.

22: Please share with us exactly who was at the Nicea Council. Another baseless Constantine conspiracy theory.

23: Blah, blah. Those others were accepted at various times by some of the Jews at the time, not all Jews. (Geesh, why is it that people think they know how the whole entire population of Jews thought?)

23: Yes, there arose different sects of Judaism and Christianity...so?

24: Huh? That makes no sense, the author is proposing an argument that isn't made by most Christians. Logical fallacy.

25: Uh, no. That is a false claim, the Bible doesn't say that and most people didn't believe it at the time. Logical fallacy again.

26: Geesh, some anti-Jewish pandering going on here? Pro-Palestinian arguments here.

27: The author really needs to study Jewish jurisprudence before making absurd claims.

28: Prophetic.

29: The Jewish Revolt, the Jews were not strong enough.

30: I don't know about yours, but I have prayers answered.

31: Yeah, and all cultures had slaves in the time it was written.

32: Alternative lifestyle means....alternative, to what? Even pedophilia is an alternative lifestyle as well as swingers, those into BDSM and other really weird things.

33: The two verses quoted in Corinthians was a customary city law of Corinth practiced among the Greeks. Paul does say several times that some things were his own opinion. You don't have to listen to Paul's opinion. Geesh, the author really needs to research history.

34: Facepalm again. There are not two different accounts, it is the same account, the second giving more detail. And this same story is found all over the ancient world.

35: So the author is defining what he thinks should be the rules? The author is ignorant of church history.

36: Opinion of the author.

37: Whatever. The author is just stretching here.

38: The rest of the laws are covered in the other 630 laws of Moses.

39: Again, Zeitgeist and its false claims.

40: Is the author for real?

I can't believe I made it through that stupid list. The author is just making his opinion on false claims, contrived misfacts, unfactual information, no knowledge of history and a revamping of Zeitgeist.

a reply to: adjensen

If you want to discuss something on that list specifically, post it, but no one (sane) is going to respond to your minimal OP with a forty point refutation of the article that you linked to.

Well, since I consider "WarminIndy" to be perfectly sane (along with very smart,) I guess I've been proven wrong, lol.

originally posted by: adjensen
a reply to: adjensen

If you want to discuss something on that list specifically, post it, but no one (sane) is going to respond to your minimal OP with a forty point refutation of the article that you linked to.

Well, since I consider "WarminIndy" to be perfectly sane (along with very smart,) I guess I've been proven wrong, lol.

Thank you Adjensen.

I believe you are very highly intelligent and intellectual as well.

I feel like I lost a few IQ points by that blog, now I will have to go to do some brain games to get back what I lost...lol. That was a 40 point summation of Zeitgeist.