E-cigarettes: no indoor smoking ban planned in England despite WHO call

Ministers will not ban e-cigarettes indoors in England, despite the World Health Organisation urging governments to do so to combat the threat posed by the growing popularity of vaping.

The Department of Health (DH) made clear that it does not plan to outlaw the use of the increasingly popular gadgets in enclosed public spaces in England, although Wales's Labour government is considering doing so

E-cigarettes: no indoor smoking ban planned in England despite WHO call

The big cigarette company's must be lobbying against e cigarettes as the uptake of this alternative to there products is surly having an effect on profit margins.
It would be interesting to know what the harmful effects really are as this seams to be missing from all commentators on the subject.
I would appreciate any comments on the harm they may cause to the users and the passive harm they are said to omit.

a reply to: crostkev

They're so new, long-term effects aren't really known.

So far, it is believed they cause inflammation. That's about as far as they have gotten.

At first blush, they still seem to be a vast improvement over real cigarettes. I also think big tobacco has gotten on board, as nearly all of them are now offering an e-product.

The biggest risk I see to users are the flavoring additives in the e-liquid cartridges. Gawd knows what the Chinese (or others) put into those things.

a reply to: loam
I have had a sneaking suspicion that the nicotine delivery system of witch they most definitely are, would make a person more addicted to said nicotine. So I would agree on reflection that the big tobacco company's must be involved.
I really don't get the WHO statement, surly they are a far less lethal form of nicotine delivery that any cigaret available on the market to date.
Do you think e cigarets should be painted with the same brush as there original form of delivery ?
Thank you for you comments

a reply to: crostkev

I can personally tell you that the "Jones's" is worse with cigarettes than the vapor.

You are more sddicted to the additives in cigs than the vapor.

Don't get me wrong I still jones for it, but I can go longer without vaping than I could smoking sticks.

Just my opinion based on personal experience.

After 18 months of switching to them:

1) Short term there is vast improvement in lung capacity; improved consistent lower blood pressure; a reduction in blood pressure medication; my doctor approves.

2) Long Term - well with tobacco there was the nicotine, the tar, the carbon monoxide, the ammonia, the carbonized smoke particulates; with vapor, there is the nicotine, the propelyne glycol, the flavoring, and no particulates, no tar, no carbon monoxide. Its not a question of if it is better long-term, but a measurement of HOW MUCH better it is.

3) Addiction - personally I will say its less, as I do go longer when busy and can't get outside (yes some places like factories do that to the vapors too) i don't get the jitters and all bitchy and stuff, and sometimes forget about it.

As far as the liquid, buy from a vendor not connected with big tobacco and get it stateside, and don't worry about big bad tobacco, or the chinese anymore.

a reply to: crostkev

Hilarious.

The reality is, that most pubs, clubs, restaurants, cafes, coffee shops, cinemas, and the like, already have a no-smoking, of any kind, policy. One may not vape at the bar, any more than one may light up a Superking, or a hand rolled cigarette.

So, to be clear on the subject, all the places where one might go during a day, at work or about ones regular business, are already treating vaping as being no different from straight up smoking, and have been since the craze first took off. Agree with it or not, the fact that there has been a decision not to ban the smoking of E-cigarettes in public enclosed spaces, is pretty much irrelevant now, since the majority of privately owned establishments have pre-existing policies covering the topic, which have been in place for a significant period.

Since it is within a companies right to decide how to form, and enact policy (within the law) on their own behalf, the ruling out of an official ban means absolutely nothing. Its just more taxpayer money being wasted by the government, who have spent time on yet another non-issue. A small amount of research would have shown that the number of private entities already placing bans on such things from their premises, means that legislation would have been wasteful and excessive, and further thought on it, organising a press statement on the subject, and all the malarkey which lead to the conclusion, has been a terrible waste of time.

I wish our government would spend time, EXCLUSIVELY dealing with serious, immediate, and important topics and problems, rather than hand wringing over something which has already been dealt with in the main by individual businesses and their policies.

a reply to: liejunkie01 There is a huge uptake of this product in my local area, now whether this is due to being able to get your nicotine fix indoors in public ect or because of perceived health benefits I'm not to sure but there is now huge demand for this.

a reply to: crostkev

Good - some common sense from the Government. We don't get that very often.

As for the "harm" from passive smoking, I never really bought into that. When I was a lad, in the 1980's, my Mum smoked in the house, in the car, wherever. We also frequented the Sgt's Mess often and that was so smoky I used to play with the sun rays through the window and how they'd light the smoke.

Despite all that constant exposure, I was physically very fit - at 15 I did a bleep test that would have seen me easily pass any fitness test for the Royal Marines. I could run all day and often would play football for an entire weekend, dawn till dusk without any issue.

All that said, my fitness took a tumble when I actually started smoking - not till I was 16 and then out of curiosity rather than peer pressure - so I'm not claiming smoking isn't bad for you.

I do have an e-cig now, primarily for use in the car or at home while saving the roll-ups for work. I have to admit, when I do use it I feel "cleaner". It's hard to describe, but if I spend a whole day smoking tobacco, I feel dirty by the end of it. I also have noticed I can breath easier and feel more energetic.

So far, I have not noticed any kind of problem directly, so any passive impact has to be minuscule if even non-existent.

The knee-jerk "ban it, we don't know enough" response from the WHO has rankled me a bit. It seems that the standard response to anything is "ban it" when, wherever you look, prohibition never works.

I can, sadly, see a time when tobacco will be totally banned. Personally, I do not understand why Governments feel the need to tell everyone what they can and cannot ingest. Some like to bring up health costs to those "non smokers", but we already pay far more in tax than smoking related diseases take out of the economy and if it's really an issue, they should amend our tax codes so that "smokers" (or anyone else in a high risk group) pays an extra 0.5% on top of their National Insurance to cover any "extra costs". That would be the simpler way and would then leave people to make their own choices.

Even if these devices are not totally safe are they not still much safer than regular cigarettes?
Don't use that seat belt yet, we don't know if its safe... Better than not wearing one right?

If they're dangerous, ban them completely along with cigarettes.

Not going to ban them? Then quit your whining and stop dictating to us under the guise of morality.

The government makes a fortune off tobacco, they don't want to see it being replaced now do they?

a reply to: lakesidepark
Thanks for your comment I found it very informative
.
I am worried that if we treat this product as an evil then the benefits to health will be lost and in the end the impact on health services will not be realized.

a reply to: TrueBrit

One could say all that about the smoking ban itself - already banned in most workplaces for years (and even where allowed, in "smoking rooms" not in the office) and even with some pubs/clubs not allowing it either (although they were nearly always empty).

The only reason that Smoking ban came in was an EU directive - as many of the asinine laws are - when in reality, allowing people to decide for themselves is actually a much better way of dealing with things.

There seam to be a unwillingness to admit that there are always going to be smokers and if these products can help to limit the negative affects on smokers, then that can only be a good thing.

a reply to: stumason

I could not agree more stumason.

The EU laws which have been applied to this subject previously, were superfluous in the extreme. And you are right when you say that personal choice is more effective than legislation in matters such as these. People respect things done out of individual free will, far more than they do the things which are done to conform to a legislative edict, and so they bloody well should!

I still find it aggravating that our politicians and policy makers have been tied up with this crap, probably for months, rather than addressing more serious matters though.

I think ecigs can be a great tool for those using it to quit smoking. I find the trend to wear the ecigs arounds ones neck to be too much like a pacifier though.

So while I have great fun teasing my friends, I'm glad they are making the effort to stop.

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
Even if these devices are not totally safe are they not still much safer than regular cigarettes?

Don't use that seat belt yet, we don't know if its safe... Better than not wearing one right?

Now that's just ignorance. Ignore the differences or better yet, ignore the devices completely so you can be ASSURED you know absolutely NOTHING, then become the one that warns people they ain't safe?

The major differences are visible, and smellable, and many are also measurable and can be tracked in a medical record, and there is already a good database of information on the hazards of the constituents of both, why do people ignore ALL THAT to make statements like THAT?

On the side of this liquid product it states the following :-
TREAT THIS PRODUCT WITH CARE
-Harmful if swallowed ( i guess just in case you are used to eating them instead of smoking them)
-If swallowed, take this leaflet with you and seek immediate medical advice.
-Exposure to skin or eyes is harmful, flush with plenty of water when contaminated.
-ect...
-wash hands, fore arms thoroughly after each use ( whats that all about?)

So far on this thread only one person has had anything to say about the side effects of using this product but i have sneaking suspicion there is more to this than meets the eye ( remember to rises thoroughly)

Quit smoking cigarettes 5 weeks ago (after 30+ years of heavy smoking) due to vaping.

Overnight I was a vape lover.

Since then I have smoked maybe 5 cigarettes and its been weeks since I have had one.

1st week I could breath for the first time in decades.

2nd week I could smell things and sleep better.

3rd week I was looking better, feeling better, jogging and with more energy in all activities.

4th week my lungs emptied enough gross crap from my lungs that it almost made me puke. And now my lungs feel like 4 times bigger.

Never once did I NEED a cigarette like the slave I was all these years. Smoking ciggs tastes so disgusting to me now and its so weird that I don't want them anymore. Vaping is just more pleasurable. WAY way WAAAAY more.


Now I am feeling amazing. Lungs are stronger and I'm running daily after work instead of collapsing in a pile of smoke stench and physical misery.

They can make whatever laws they want...it won't last. Vaping is here and its going to replace ciggs soon enough . Its already a billion and a half dollar market now.


If you smoke ciggs, please research vaping (e-ciggs) and get on it. But please don't do an "e-cigg", get a vape mod.
Vape life!

MM

originally posted by: crostkev
On the side of this liquid product it states the following :-
TREAT THIS PRODUCT WITH CARE
-Harmful if swallowed ( i guess just in case you are used to eating them instead of smoking them)
-If swallowed, take this leaflet with you and seek immediate medical advice.
-Exposure to skin or eyes is harmful, flush with plenty of water when contaminated.
-ect...
-wash hands, fore arms thoroughly after each use ( whats that all about?)

So far on this thread only one person has had anything to say about the side effects of using this product but i have sneaking suspicion there is more to this than meets the eye ( remember to rises thoroughly)

The "wash skin after use" is for the nicotine. Nicotine is highly poisonous in pure form. Too much (very little) can make you very ill or dead. In the bottle, nicotine is very deadly. The risk of poisoning comes only from dealing with the unmixed nicotine.

Most doctors have all said that vaping is 1000s of times safer than smoking tabaco.

MM

originally posted by: crostkev
On the side of this liquid product it states the following :-
TREAT THIS PRODUCT WITH CARE
-Harmful if swallowed ( i guess just in case you are used to eating them instead of smoking them)
-If swallowed, take this leaflet with you and seek immediate medical advice.
-Exposure to skin or eyes is harmful, flush with plenty of water when contaminated.
-ect...
-wash hands, fore arms thoroughly after each use ( whats that all about?)

So far on this thread only one person has had anything to say about the side effects of using this product but i have sneaking suspicion there is more to this than meets the eye ( remember to rises thoroughly)

That is because the liquid is concentrated nicotine, which is very toxic in large enough quantities. Hence why they advise not to eat it, or come into contact with it. It's not some hidden agenda, it's stating the obvious for morons in case they decided it would be a good idea to drink it.