Arizona-9 Year old girl kills gun instructer

originally posted by: Jakal26
Watch as the anti-gun crowd exploits this little girl.
Oh...that's not what you're doing? ummhumm.....anything to bash the right to bear arms, aye?

Tragic accident/dumb (understatement) instructor.....
But for those asking why a child would be taught to shoot or claiming that children don't need to learn to handle firearms...

Reason 1

Reason 2

And reasons 3-1000.....well, don't be lazy, go take a look at the plethora of reasons.

Now please, stop using this accident as a justification for not being able to understand why we teach children to shoot. It's exploitation, of course, I doubt too many of the anti-gun crowd even care about all that.

....carry on with the gun rights bashing. (Won't change a thing....whine and scream all you want, the rest of us will STILL keep our weapons)

I think the little girls parents have done a fine job of exploiting this little girl on on their own!! Bad parenting is an understatement!

While an Uzi is only 9 mm and not a "High powered rifle" [ where do they get their information? ] they "walk" on full auto and for a 9 year old to control that is asking a lot. I'm seeing post after post, almost all non American, pointing fingers and shouting "See!! See!! We were RIGHT" "Crazy Americans and their guns".

Proud of yourself for using a little girls' trauma for your agenda?
I feel sorry for the girl. The instructor should have known his students weaknesses and never given her the weapon.

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
I have a 10 yr old and a 13 yr old and the closest they get to guns is COD.

I didn't even let them play hockey because I know my kids would use that as a weapon.

So, I have no idea what besides the allowing a child to touch something they shouldn't is the process ... why wasn't an adult behind he helping with the recoil?

I can only imagine what this little one is going through. None of it is her fault.

what is wrong with you ??? at least introduce your kids to a decent FPS ...battlefeild 4 has been out for a while now....shakes head in disgust....even though it has gone downhill since the original...(bring back DC)....

back on topic....how can anyone in their right mind hand an oozy to a 9 year old........this is far too surreal to comprehend....oh i forgot "guns dont kill people,people kill people"

originally posted by: DAVID64
While an Uzi is only 9 mm and not a "High powered rifle" [ where do they get their information? ] they "walk" on full auto and for a 9 year old to control that is asking a lot. I'm seeing post after post, almost all non American, pointing fingers and shouting "See!! See!! We were RIGHT" "Crazy Americans and their guns".

Proud of yourself for using a little girls' trauma for your agenda?
I feel sorry for the girl. The instructor should have known his students weaknesses and never given her the weapon.

If an "Agenda" is pointing out the idiocy and pointless deaths occurring from stupidity, then I will continue to do so.

Because even if only one person thinks twice, it could save a whole lot of heartache.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Not quite....don't whitewash what is being said.

I, for one, am not claiming that it wasn't irresponsible to give this child an uzi. Anyone that says otherwise is just being ridiculous.

.....the poor decision of this "instructor" and the parents that allowed this doesn't equate all parents who teach their children how to handle and shoot weapons being irresponsible.

When you are the anti-gun crowd....this is just one more reason to cheer on the stripping of the rights of others...clearly.

a reply to: noonebutme

It's not as rare as you claim.

You're also taking a child of 9 years old and making them responsible for adult actions - and placing expectations of an adult onto them. Which is unfair and also, in my opinion, unhealthy.

No, the situation (the ones I posted) dictated they make "adult decisions".
"Unfair"......when is it that the world woke up and decided that everything was "fair"....life isn't fair buddy.
I thinking it'd be far more "unhealthy" to allow an intruder free roam...but whatever you say.

But hey - you love your guns and want to surround yourselves with them - all the more to you. When you wonder how and why young teens commit atrocities like school shootings - it is not because they were not taught how to use a gun responsibly. It's because they simply do not have a true value on the impact firing a gun at another human being has.

So one "rare occurrence" is a moot point to you, yet you use school shootings as an example to make your point? I won't even bother pointing out why I am mentioning that you did this.

Sure, in your examples of rare occurrences when a child miraculously stops an intruder - great. Do they fully understand what they did? What it means? I doubt it. But they're your kids, so - go for it.

Really? "Do they fully understand what they did"?
Tell that to the ones that didn't have guns. Tell that to those that were raped, beaten, etc etc etc.

a reply to: Lady_Tuatha

Not my point.
So because the parents and the instructor are idiots, that allows for the little girl's further exploitation?

a reply to: Jakal26

Ah ok so children need to be taught to use guns in case they are being raped.

Wow. Your sir, need a lie down. Quickly.

originally posted by: Jakal26
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Not quite....don't whitewash what is being said.

I, for one, am not claiming that it wasn't irresponsible to give this child an uzi. Anyone that says otherwise is just being ridiculous.

.....the poor decision of this "instructor" and the parents that allowed this doesn't equate all parents who teach their children how to handle and shoot weapons being irresponsible.

When you are the anti-gun crowd....this is just one more reason to cheer on the stripping of the rights of others...clearly.

Yes it is irresponsible, they are children! same reason you wouldn't let a child drive a car, or be a knife thrower, or join the army. People who hand children guns are highly irresponsible! no matter how 'safe' they think they are being, just look at the instructor in the video I bet he thought he had everything under control and it was a safe environment, children are unpredictable!!

a reply to: Briles1207

In case they are attacked....yeah. Pretty simple concept, though for those that are anti-any guns, it just doesn't seem to register.

Firearm safety and proper handling should be taught early.
That being said, giving an uzi (known for the recoil) to a small 9 year old girl was just dumb. Training with a single shot .22 can be just as effective.

......

I have nothing else to say.
I will now bow out of this thread. I came into it knowing that the flames would come my way. More and more I see the anti-gun crowd permeating ATS. Calls for the disarming of all Americans, calls for restrictive laws...etc etc. It gets tiresome.

Of course, I just got out of bed....coffee and a bit of being flamed for my views, GREAT way to start the day!

a reply to: Jakal26

LIfe isnt fair - i never said otherwise. However, as adults , we can help to make a child's life more fair than unfair. And teaching them to use guns at an early age isn't fair - it's idiotic. If you feel otherwise, then I think you're opinion is idiotic.

You want to prepare children for the world by teaching them how to use guns? I would think that would only teach them to approach such situations WITH guns or with a "gunhead" mentality - something your country needs less of.

Honestly, I cannot see how one could rationally argue to teach a child how to use firearms - for the rare (yes, still rare) occasions you provide when a child has used a firearm in self defence, I do not for one second believe it was a healthy act. They are too young to understand what it means to kill someone and too young to have that sort of emotional trauma inflicted on them, when it's completely avoidable.

This isn't Syria, or Iraq - this isn't ISIS. This is America. Your children should be able to grow up without having to know how to fire an automatic weapon at 9 years old - what sort of life is that??. Jesus Christ, what is wrong with you??

I'm a gun enthusiast. And a cc holder. I've spent a lot of time shooting and taught many people how to shoot including younger kids.

I have no idea why the hell this guy was having this child shoot an Uzi. I don't like to speak I'll of the dead but this is pure idiocy.

There is no education that requires this. She's way too young to be trying to operate that. It's like putting a brand new driver behind wheel of a Ferrari

Something bad is going to happen

Stupid stupid

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
What kind of moron thinks that a 9-year-old can handle an Uzi???? Why would a 9-year-old need to be able to handle one in the first place??? What was she supposed to be fighting off, a pack of ebola-infected ISIS agents at her school?

She wasn't "being trained to handle a uzi." He was letting her shoot one for the novelty of it. He was stupid because, even though a UZI is not high powered (it only shoots 9mm handgun rounds) any FA weapon is going to climb and not very controllable as a kid. He paid the price for being an idiot, but honestly, this is no more horrific than if he was a driving instructor who put her behind the wheel of a race car for the novelty of it "just to drive a couple of feet" and it got away from her and killed him.

His demise is totally on him and his foolish action, not guns and gun owners.

a reply to: Briles1207


Why would a 9 year old child want to be instructed in how to use a gun in the first place.

Are children as young as that allowed to carry firearms in The U.S.

There is stupid and bloody stupid.

a reply to: Lady_Tuatha

Funny, because as an "unpredictable" child who was a bit of a "hell-raiser", I didn't seem to shoot anyone. Neither did my brothers. Guess what, when I was 12 years old (brothers; 10 and 11) we roamed the woods shooting targets, small game (when necessary) and carrying our guns (at the time a .22, a 12 gauge wingmaster, and a cheap .410)....none of us even came close to getting shot. Why? We KNEW how to handle weapons by that time....we knew NEVER to point a gun at something you don't fully intend to shoot. We KNEW that goofing off with weapons was NOT something we were to do.

I guess all that early life training was all for nil. (I'm actually writing this from the grave)

LOL at "same reason you wouldn't let a child drive a car, or be a knife thrower"

Umm....when I was 10 or younger I was driving the backroads with the aide of my parents and my grandfather. I would steer, they would be the gas and brake. By the time I was 13 I was driving, ALONE, on the backroads (I live in a very isolated place in the middle of nowhere land USA).......I was throwing knives when I was far younger than 9.....I was carrying hunting knives, into the woods, ALONE.....by that age.

Oh, the good ole days. I swear, had I not lived them I would think that it never existed. Meh, oh well.

For the record, just adding this.....we were doing gun safety course in our middle school (age 12) when I was in school. (I am only 30 years old)....it wasn't that long ago.

originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: Jakal26

LIfe isnt fair - i never said otherwise. However, as adults , we can help to make a child's life more fair than unfair. And teaching them to use guns at an early age isn't fair - it's idiotic. If you feel otherwise, then I think you're opinion is idiotic.

You want to prepare children for the world by teaching them how to use guns? I would think that would only teach them to approach such situations WITH guns or with a "gunhead" mentality - something your country needs less of.

Honestly, I cannot see how one could rationally argue to teach a child how to use firearms - for the rare (yes, still rare) occasions you provide when a child has used a firearm in self defence, I do not for one second believe it was a healthy act. They are too young to understand what it means to kill someone and too young to have that sort of emotional trauma inflicted on them, when it's completely avoidable.

This isn't Syria, or Iraq - this isn't ISIS. This is America. Your children should be able to grow up without having to know how to fire an automatic weapon at 9 years old - what sort of life is that??. Jesus Christ, what is wrong with you??

I disagree. Teaching a child the safe and responsible use and handling of firearms is a good thing that will make them safer. Children who die and kill in accidents are almost always those who were not taught proper and safe handling.

Ok, I tried to hold back here, but, with sooooooooooooo many generalizations being flung about here, I couldn't just sit here. There are plenty of mistakes to go around in this particular case.

IMO, who knows a child's development level and ability to make good judgements? The parents. That being said, if the parent felt unqualified to teach the child proper gun safety, then that is strike one. If the instructor did not drill into the child the importance of handling this weapon, or assess the strength and ability of the child to handle this weapon, then strike two. If the range does not have any age limit and/or strength requirement/test prior to handling this weapon, then that is strike 3.

IMO, the parent making that first mistake is the one truly responsible for this entire fiasco. Whether you like it or not, the parents are the legal guardians for their children and are ultimately responsible for their well being.

I am all for our 2nd Amendment rights, and will stand tall in defense of it as well. However, as one great man once said, "You can't fix stupid". Had the parents not allowed their child to even get into this situation, and even PAID for it I'm sure, then they have no case or reason to sue the range itself. The only thing I can think of that the range could be taken to court over is if the weapon itself malfunctioned due to negligence on their behalf or if the instructor was not certified as an instructor on this particular model.

Let's get a grip here folks. Yes, a man is dead, and a child has been changed emotionally (and likely psychologically) for life. But this is an accident that could have been prevented at many different points along the way. Respect for firearms must be taught, and ingrained into everyone prior to handling them, let alone using them. But, going on a banning spree is not the answer....for anything. And making generalizations about everyone's rights due to the exceptions is also a recipe for disaster.

But then, YMMV, as this is just my opinion as a licensed and trained gun owner.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Not powerfull because of round size are you having a laugh what about rounds per min or the fact its a 9 year old.

Easist way to have gun contol over the pond give would be owners an IQ test 99% would probably fail if they had to reach 100.

If common sense were made of gun powder a lot would struggle to fill a round !

a reply to: noonebutme

Ummm....who said it wasn't stupid to have her firing an uzi? Did I not explicitly state otherwise?

Funny, every single time one stands up against those that find any and every excuse to bash gun rights and responsible gun owners it comes down to this......this "you're an idiot, your thoughts/opinions are idiotic". It's always taken to the extreme. "You are a gunhead"...."fanatic"....yata ya.

I am neither. My weapons stay in their rightful place, locked away (besides the one I keep near the bed for personal protection)....I have no small children in the house. I don't walk around packing everyday. I don't go to the range and guzzle beer and shout "roooha 'murica" and throw rounds downrange (can't afford the ammo these days).....

.....but the anti-gun crowd will claim to know me. Claim to know that I am taking it to the extreme, as they do. Claim I am saying "YEAH, give that girl an uzi"......."train them killers young"...

Truly, you people are ridiculous.
Quit pretending you know something about me.........you don't.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Ok, I tried to hold back here, but, with sooooooooooooo many generalizations being flung about here, I couldn't just sit here. There are plenty of mistakes to go around in this particular case. IMO, who knows a child's development level and ability to make good judgements? The parents. That being said, if the parent felt unqualified to teach the child proper gun safety, then that is strike one. If the instructor did not drill into the child the importance of handling this weapon, or assess the strength and ability of the child to handle this weapon, then strike two. If the range does not have any age limit and/or strength requirement/test prior to handling this weapon, then that is strike 3. IMO, the parent making that first mistake is the one truly responsible for this entire fiasco. Whether you like it or not, the parents are the legal guardians for their children and are ultimately responsible for their well being. I am all for our 2nd Amendment rights, and will stand tall in defense of it as well. However, as one great man once said, "You can't fix stupid". Had the parents not allowed their child to even get into this situation, and even PAID for it I'm sure, then they have no case or reason to sue the range itself. The only thing I can think of that the range could be taken to court over is if the weapon itself malfunctioned due to negligence on their behalf or if the instructor was not certified as an instructor on this particular model. Let's get a grip here folks. Yes, a man is dead, and a child has been changed emotionally (and likely psychologically) for life. But this is an accident that could have been prevented at many different points along the way. Respect for firearms must be taught, and ingrained into everyone prior to handling them, let alone using them. But, going on a banning spree is not the answer....for anything. And making generalizations about everyone's rights due to the exceptions is also a recipe for disaster. But then, YMMV, as this is just my opinion as a licensed and trained gun owner.

^^^This