California Drought Before/After: Is this for real?

originally posted by: Biigs
I have a very good friend in California who i stayed with for several weeks last year, they do not use anything like 300 gallons of water.

They are healthy people with a green grass lawn, theres simply no way they use anything like that, they do try to keep the water usage down, like no over watering of the garden, but 300 gallons every day? not even remotely true.

The majority of the water usage in that statistic comes from the amount of water it takes to produce your food.

originally posted by: Fylgje
Doesn't Kevin Costner and others have a machine that converts salt water into fresh drinkable water? Someone needs to step up and save Cali. They are beside a vast ocean of water.

Desalination is pretty basic technology, it's not all that difficult to build. The problem is that it requires a ton of electricity and disposing of all the excess salt is difficult (though not impossible, it just needs a lot of coastline). To put it simply, we don't have the electricity generating ability in the US to run desalination plants. Coal power plants do more harm than good due to the electricity required vs pollution, solar ends up taking up even more space in what is already a very space intensive endeavor (you need huge pipelines to redistribute the salt to the ocean over vast distances so it's not too concentrated in an area), and wind is a joke. The only viable option we currently have to use desalination on a mass scale is nuclear and good luck getting one of those built.

a reply to: Aazadan

We have a plant in Carlsbad that was built for about $4b. There is still a working nuclear plant at Diablo Canyon. The problem is politics and environmentalists. our governor thinks a trillion dollar rail project is more important and salamanders and birds control coastal development. To your point desalination is terribly innefficient but it is working in other parts of the world.

a reply to: FlySolo>>> I super imposed the current drought map over a map with the increases in population. The areas with the worst drought were the same ones with the biggest increases in population. The southwest.
I think over population in areas that can't handle it are a big reason you see low reservoirs even in drought years. Farmers need water, people need water. I don't think its unreasonable to put a population cap in cities and regions.

originally posted by: ChaosComplex

originally posted by: FyreByrd

And for all the 'we have plenty of water' crowd that doesn't understand that Saltwater won't help:

Three-quarters of the Earth's surface is covered with water, yet 98 percent is salt water and not fit for consumption.
Less than one percent of all the water on Earth is freshwater available for human consumption.

So something like this:

Would be completely useless in your opinion?

Not useless, but impractical and perhaps even dangerous:

From Food and Water Watch:

www.foodandwaterwatch.org...

1. Alternatives abound.
2. It's expensive.
3. It could exacerbate global warming.
4. It creates the potential for corporate control and abuse.
5. Fisheries and marine environments will be threatened.
6. It could pose a risk to human health.
7. It prootes environmental and social injustice.

Details on each point can be found at the source.

They don't mention.

This is not a solution just another Public Expense for Private Profit swindle of big business.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: ChaosComplex

originally posted by: FyreByrd

And for all the 'we have plenty of water' crowd that doesn't understand that Saltwater won't help:

Three-quarters of the Earth's surface is covered with water, yet 98 percent is salt water and not fit for consumption.
Less than one percent of all the water on Earth is freshwater available for human consumption.

So something like this:

Would be completely useless in your opinion?

Not useless, but impractical and perhaps even dangerous:

From Food and Water Watch:

www.foodandwaterwatch.org...

1. Alternatives abound.
2. It's expensive.
3. It could exacerbate global warming.
4. It creates the potential for corporate control and abuse.
5. Fisheries and marine environments will be threatened.
6. It could pose a risk to human health.
7. It prootes environmental and social injustice.

Details on each point can be found at the source.

They don't mention.

This is not a solution just another Public Expense for Private Profit swindle of big business.

If those 7 bullet points are the key arguments against the development and implementation of desalinization on a large scale, then it would seem to me that the need for water isn't really that bad after all. My siblings used to complain that they were starving but they would refuse to just slap together a PB&J sandwich or warm up some left overs from the fridge. I would always give up and say "Well, you can't be starving then".

a reply to: Aazadan
Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up as I haven't delved into that very deeply.

The only other solution that I know of is to pipeline it in from freshwater lakes, rivers, etc.. That would be a tough situation to be in.

a reply to: Dutchowl

i tend to think putting a population cap on a city wont work. if people want to live in the area they will, they will just end up building right outside of the area that is capped, and thus loop holes the water usage will still rise. ultimately as i have said before, its not really the people that are the problem, its big ag that is the problem. looking at statistics of cities isnt where you should be looking. check out some of the satellite images of the valley, and you will see endless fields of plants which take thousands, some times tens of thousands of gallons of water daily depending on how large it is, what is being grown, time of the year, water restrictions, regulations, etc. check out some stats on how much big ag uses daily, monthly, yearly, etc. all the stats about the average water use of americans, many of those gallons used per day, come from the water used to grow the food you are eating, into the products you are using, into the car you are driving, etc etc etc. its not the cannibis (not that you said it was), its not the people, its big ag and environmental regulations. we could last through a drought with no problem, there would be plenty of water for the people to use, if we didnt have big ag. and im not against big ag, we are the bread basket of america, and im kinda proud of that, im just saying that it is indeed the biggest user of water here, above and beyond any city. yes the southern cities are using more water from the north, than the northerners themselves, but thats because the population in the south is like 10x more at least. i am not speaking facts from a book or something i saw, i live here, both in southern california, in bakersfield (population about 400000, grapes and roses and nuts and oranges and oil and all kinds of other stuff cultivated here) and in oroville (well actually berry creek, but its literally right next to lake oroville, the lake in the original post) which, to be honest i dont really know what the economy is up there other than tourism and cannibis (because there are A LOT of water companies trucking water, organic grow stores, fertilizer sellers, compost producers. its basically a tiny tourist/retirement community that live off/on the lake, combined with a perfect place for growing pot. population maybe 6000-10000)

If it gets too expensive we'll figure out a way to more cheaply desalinate sea water. The market will find a way.

However, it basically has to do with just too damn many people on the planet having to live in more concentrated areas so more land can be used to grow food.

Time to build more dams ready for when it does rain, no harm in being ready for it, for once.

My building's water pipes froze and burst last February, as did many in Chicago.
I had to buy gallons for cooking and bathing, then take the empties to neighbors to refill. I melted snow to flush with.
With 2 cats, lots of coffee and drinking water for myself, on days I didn't skip a bath I used about 5-6 gallons a day at most.
Still, got me thinking about when my Mom used to stock up bottled water "just in case."
In a 3-person household, what she had in the cabinet would have lasted maybe a day, two tops.

I live in California. honestly this whole drought seems to be quite engineered. I know people on water boards and our ground water levels have been rising. one of the main reservoirs in northern cali is as full as it can be atm due to a new spillway being built. when we had a terrible drought I believe in the early 90's that lake was much much lower. also checkout a water usage chart of the entire state and u will see every county is has used less water then they ever have historically except for a 1% increase in one county along the cali/Nevada border, and down in la/san diego they are using 8% more water then the last year yet there lakes and reservoirs are quite full down there and they keep dumping the water from the north of cali. I got very suspicious this year when they started to announce our drought in DEC. this is before we get our rains. they pounded this on the news for 2 weeks then had to shuttup for awhile cause it wouldn't stop raining in jan, feb, and march. everything about this drought screams BS.

Edit: ps just cause a lake is low in pictures doesn't mean the weather is completely responsible for the low levels. the politicians in the southern end of the state have always dumped a lot of our water up north to keep there lakes and reservoirs full for themselves for the summer months.

originally posted by: TheScale
Edit: ps just cause a lake is low in pictures doesn't mean the weather is completely responsible for the low levels.

I guess you were sleeping while it rained here only 2 or 3 times all winter?

the politicians in the southern end of the state have always dumped a lot of our water up north to keep there lakes and reservoirs full for themselves for the summer months.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Oh, I see that you're from Southern California?

Well that explains your confusion, cause we are the ones who send YOU water, not the other way around.

What a load of complete bs. ~$heopleNation

That usage is an average, most people do not use near that three hundred twenty gallons a day. Since it is an average, then some people use a lot more. Some people waste water, feeling entitled to it since they can afford it.

We use about two thousand gallons a month, I have a well, and could use more, but why. I don't wash the cars often and only water the berries and garden when needed, which isn't many times this year. We have had a good year for rain, actually a little more than usual.

a reply to: SheopleNation

im from the middle of the state. and if it only rained 2 or 3 times for u then I don't know where u were cause it rained for a week straight up here on multiple occasions with large downpours. I counted 21" of rain over the season and even forget to check for a few days on one occasion so some had evaporated out of my rain gauge. pretty darn avg for this area every year.
sheeplenation eh? kinda sad when such a simple sentence escapes someones grasp.
reread your second quote it clearly states the opposite of what u thought it said.

originally posted by: TheScale

im from the middle of the state. and if it only rained 2 or 3 times for u then I don't know where u were cause it rained for a week straight up here on multiple occasions with large downpours. I counted 21" of rain over the season and even forget to check for a few days on one occasion so some had evaporated out of my rain gauge. pretty darn avg for this area every year.

I was up North hundreds of miles away. Well then you obviously know how large the State of California is right? Listen, just because it's raining in central or southern California, that does not mean it's raining in Northern California. That would be like suggesting that North & South Carolina have the same weather.

Most of California's water comes from the North, and the Sierra Nevada, down to central California. Northern California sends Southern California 50% of their water. The other 50% comes from the Colorado river.

also reread your second quote it clearly states the opposite of what u thought it said.

Really, I must be confused then, cause here is what you said....


the politicians in the southern end of the state have always dumped a lot of our water up north to keep there lakes and reservoirs full for themselves for the summer months.

Please explain? Anyway, it's nothing personal at all, but I will not sit and allow disinformation to be spread. We are in a very, very serious drought out here in California. No need for fear mongering, cause it's reality, I've seen it with my own eyes. Suggesting otherwise is very misleading, and simply is not the truth. ~$heopleNation

a reply to: TheScale

I'm from central Cal. also. and farmers are plowing under crops. wells are going dry. and the lakes and reservoirs are all down big time. I'm at a loss as to where you could possibly live and post such drivel.

a reply to: howmuch4another

For a minute I thought I stepped into Bizarro World, It's unbelievable. We are not even at 30% of the norm. Forget the fact that this is the worst drought in California's recorded history. You really have to wonder sometimes............

~$heopleNation

a reply to: SheopleNation
not to mention how incredible the "rained for weeks" comment was. The longest rain was 4 days and didn't change any water levels more than 2%. This has been a multi year drought. bizarro indeed.