The Watchers, the Grigori and their Chant to God - Who really needs forgiveness?

Grigori are fallen angels, or Watchers. Armed with this knowledge, you now have a broader view of the Catholic Church and religion in general. There is more to this story than the church admits. Follow the trail and learn the story. Links provided.

WIKI

"Watcher (Aramaic, עִיר, iyr; Theodotian trans: ir; from the root of Heb. `er, "awake, watchful";[1] Greek: ἐγρήγοροι, transl.: egrḗgoroi; Slav transliteration, Grigori,[2] "Watchers", "those who are awake"; Chaldean, "guard", "watcher"[3]) is a term used in connection with biblical angels. Watcher occurs in both plural and singular forms in the Book of Daniel (2nd century BC), where reference is made to their holiness. The apocryphal Books of Enoch (1st and 2nd centuries BC) refer to both good and bad Watchers, with a primary focus on the rebellious ones."

Now that you know the Grigori, examine the Dies Irae, or medieval Latin chant of the Grigori (fallen watchers). Gregorian Chant is part of the Catholic Liturgy. WIKI

1. Day of wrath and doom impending,
David's word with Sibyl's blending,
Heaven and earth in ashes ending!

---The day of wrath is coming for the fallen beings. David has a connection to the oracle Sibyl. WIKI Heaven AND Earth ending in ashes. The Bible speaks of a war in Heaven.

2. Oh, what fear man's bosom rendeth,
When from heaven the Judge descendeth,
On whose sentence all dependeth.

---The question here is simple. Who are the Grigori? What connection does man have to the fallen beings? Are we those beings?

3. Wondrous sound the trumpet flingeth;
Through earth's sepulchres it ringeth;
All before the throne it bringeth.

---A sepulcher is a grave. The trumpet restores the one dead to life again.

4. Death is struck, and nature quaking,
All creation is awaking,
To its Judge an answer making.

---What answer will be given for the fallen beings who corrupted mankind? What debt does mankind have to pay in this? Again, what is our relationship to the watchers and why are the church leaders lamenting the Grigori?

5. Lo! the book, exactly worded,
Wherein all hath been recorded:
Thence shall judgement be awarded.

---Here, judgement is an award rather than a debt to be paid. What is being awarded? Is it a contest? The books of life record all history that occurs. Again, what part is man playing in this and why are we devoid of the presuppositions necessary to understand what is going on? Who is this written to? God is love according to 1 John. Love keeps no records of wrongs according to 1 Corinthians 13. Does this mean the books only contain good deeds?

6. When the Judge his seat attaineth,
And each hidden deed arraigneth,
Nothing unavenged remaineth.

---Who is arraigned? Who suffers and what is avenged? Again, keep in mind who is chanting. The Grigori.

7. What shall I, frail man, be pleading?
Who for me be interceding,
When the just are mercy needing?

---In other words, who will the scapegoat for man be when the advocate of man pleads the case? Again, who are the Grigori and why are they chanting?

8. King of Majesty tremendous,
Who dost free salvation send us,
Fount of pity, then befriend us!

---Salvation from the error of the Grigori is the salvation in question. Many people have often asked, "What are we saved from?"

9. Think, kind Jesu!–my salvation
Caused thy wondrous Incarnation;
Leave me not to reprobation!

---Who is the 'me' above? The Grigori. Why is this a function of the church? Who influences these chants through history?

10. Faint and weary, Thou hast sought me,
On the Cross of suffering bought me.
Shall such grace be vainly brought me?

---Was it in vain that he died on the cross? Why did God require the Son of God to suffer in this way? Who is he saving and why are the Grigori chanting this lament through the church?

11. Righteous Judge! for sin's pollution
Grant Thy gift of absolution,
Ere the day of retribution.

---In other words, please forgive us (Grigori).

12. Guilty, now I pour my moaning,
All my shame with anguish owning;
Spare, O God, Thy suppliant groaning!

13. Through the sinful woman shriven,
Through the dying Thief forgiven,
Thou to me a hope hast given.

---These next verses are what I mainly want to cover. Sinful woman is Eve. Shriven is "to hear the confession of, assign penance to, and absolve (someone). To present oneself to a priest for confession, penance, and absolution." Through the sinful woman God hears their pleading? Through the dying Thief forgiven. Forgiveness comes through a thief? Any thoughts?

I'll skip a few verses to get to the point:

18. Ah! that day of tears and mourning!
From the dust of earth returning
Man for judgement must prepare him;
Spare, O God, in mercy spare him!

---Here, we reach the point. The Grigori are asking God to spare mankind. I will now quote Enoch:

"1 And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous 2 man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. And go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent thee to intercede for them:

"You should intercede" for men, and not men 3 for you:

Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children 4 of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons?

And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die 5 and perish. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget 6 children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. But you were formerly 7 spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling. 8 And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon 9 the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; 10 they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. [As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless 12 hunger and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them."

Note the woman mentioned in relation to the children of men. Again, we are not being told the whole story.

a reply to: AlephBet

That you Enoch?

Good post. I find this chant to be a very well written and inspiring plea. Am I right in thinking of the Gregori as church fathers and men of high standing in the church? After all they are considered a sort of giants by their congregations.

I found myself skipping the parts of the thread that had the lines of the chant. It just seemed like something above my paygrade so to speak.

a reply to: AlephBet

What's your take on Metatron? Enoch has always fascinated me, but there have been so many renditions utilizing his imagery, that it is difficult to sift the truth from the lies.

originally posted by: backcase
a reply to: AlephBet

That you Enoch?

Good post. I find this chant to be a very well written and inspiring plea. Am I right in thinking of the Gregori as church fathers and men of high standing in the church? After all they are considered a sort of giants by their congregations.

I think there may be some truth to our leaders being the fallen aspect of our world. Enoch did say they would be locked in darkness.

originally posted by: Nechash
a reply to: AlephBet

What's your take on Metatron? Enoch has always fascinated me, but there have been so many renditions utilizing his imagery, that it is difficult to sift the truth from the lies.

I think the only reference you will find in scripture for Enoch possibly becoming an Angel is in his ascension. According to the NT, Jesus is the only one to ascend to the Father. When scripture states that there are none righteous, no not one, but then says Enoch walked with God, it leaves us scratching our heads. We lack too many presuppositions to say that our truth is founded on accurate facts. We are kept in the dark for a reason. My gut feeling is that this state of amnesia is for our own protection.

Melchizedek is another enigma for our speculations. We simply have no presupposition to know how these things connect. We think we have presuppositions founded on truth, but sadly this is not based on the evidence. Look around. We are locked in darkness as much as any beings can be.

If I were to say, "Heaven has tasty oranges," your presupposition is that heaven has fruit. All of our presuppositions of truth in religion are founded on words and not experience. We are blind to experiences of the environment we discuss. Metatron seems like an interesting angel if he exists, but what reflecting point do we have to know. NONE! The same goes for any story from antiquity.

With that said, our entire way of life is founded on these stories. It's like looking in a mirror and knowing you are there, but not seeing who you are.

a reply to: AlephBet

I've had some mind/ego shattering experiences, but then again my passion for life has always been more intense than others and that hunger has never been satisfied. Classically, I went through the progression of Flesh to Money to Power to Knowledge to Something Extraordinary.

I don't think I'm one of those who became enlightened. I certainly didn't drink the kool aide, but everything has changed and now, for the first time in my entire existence I truly feel like anything can happen. I've come to the conclusion that living is sorcery. So, what does that make me?

originally posted by: Nechash
a reply to: AlephBet

I've had some mind/ego shattering experiences, but then again my passion for life has always been more intense than others and that hunger has never been satisfied. Classically, I went through the progression of Flesh to Money to Power to Knowledge to Something Extraordinary.

I don't think I'm one of those who became enlightened. I certainly didn't drink the kool aide, but everything has changed and now, for the first time in my entire existence I truly feel like anything can happen. I've come to the conclusion that living is sorcery. So, what does that make me?

Read "As a Man Thinketh" by James Allen. It's short and free on PDF.

Maybe this is why there were popes named Gregory.

And we have the Gregorian calendar.

a reply to: AlephBet

We lack too many presuppositions to say that our truth is founded on accurate facts. We are kept in the dark for a reason. My gut feeling is that this state of amnesia is for our own protection.

This is indeed of truth. If man was given all, there would be no need for man to be here. Things are learned, not given as Father always says.

a reply to: AlephBet

That is amazingly uplifting.

Why do I struggle with the concept of ego deconstruction everyday? Why do I feel like the divine is calling me to rectify myself via autoannihilation? I believe that within the deepest recesses of my being aches a desire for an oasis to spring forth from this desert so that all may enjoy a life of peace and prosperity. Is this inherent will a wickedness when I consider it to be good? What is so despicable about me that there are forces either internally or from without that wish for my complete destruction? I just don't comprehend this.

Living on the path that I am on, I know that my interior world will be transformative for my reality. That truth is unquestionable to me. So why am I in conflict with myself? I no longer yearn for the empty husks that the world dangles in front of my eyes. Have my ambitions not ascended enough for me to purge myself of self-destructive tendencies? How much more broken must I become, how much more suffering must I endure before I allow myself to leap forth from this bondage?

I feel like Abraham sacrificing Isaaic. I know embodied in this offering is the path to fulfillment of all of the promises and gifts that have been given to me. I know that he cannot allow me to sacrifice this offering, but at the same time I feel as if I do not sincerely offer it up for sacrificing, it can never bloom into its ordained form. I fear a loss of independence and liberty. I quake to the very depths of myself at the unraveling of my foundation. I press my face against the wall of onyx, fiery letters burning their way into my forehead, crying out to be released from this fate. What have I done to warrant this torment? Is the dilemma that stands before me a test I must pass through in the most obvious way, or am I supposed to refuse this request, wielding my authority as my own? Is God judging me, or is he giving me the opportunity to judge myself? I feel like I am failing at this game. Ugh. Does it ever come easily for some?

a reply to: AlephBet

I was fascinated to read the Gregorian Chant and thanks for such a good post.

I was made into a sceptic as a tiny child in a catholic school of a different faith. I asked so many questions and the only response was the ruler for not accepting what I was being taught.

The Enochian books remind me much of their probable source coming from Babylon and the stories of the Annaanaki and their Igiggi. Once you substitute the Igiggi for the Grigori you are treading on the origins of most of this.

Its only by reading information from that time (that we have still) and joinging the links that you get a fuller picture and whether it occurs before the flood or after.

The breeding of spiritual beings with non spiritual beings is in fact a racial problem. Its reflecting down through the ages when someone of one pure race marries a non-believer and they either convert or stay with their own beliefs.
This was something that preoccupied the Jews from Moses time.

We know that Moses was Egyptian and brought the ancient beliefs of that culture into a blend with Judiasm. Many of the so called patriachs are not Jewish they are Egyptian etc.

Lastly you have to remember that with the soul searching on the written words from the official church etc you are not soul searching on the original teachings, yuou are soul searching on twisted teachings that may never make sense to you because they cannot. They were written by men with an agenda and its that agenda you are searching through.

I use to be very fascinated with religion but once you go back and read from new discoveries like Nag Hammadi, which puts you in direct touch with Christ and the scrolls that the early church did not manage to destroy, you start to get an easier picture without the so-called mysteries, that basically keep people going back to church, who put them in in the first place, to try to unravel them.

If people were not interested in fathoming these mysteries the church would have died out many years ago. Spirituality is supposed to open one up to the beauty of life and its endless cycles of life, death and rebirth. Its a celebration amongst the struggles we all face in order to live. If one can bring contentment into ones life, one has surely reached the heaven on earth Christ taught. Then one can ask oneself does God require any more of me and simply know the answer.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
I found myself skipping the parts of the thread that had the lines of the chant. It just seemed like something above my paygrade so to speak.

Good for you! I did the same.

Chants, curses, and blasphemy words should not be read word for word or spoke out. In this case it has nothing to do with personal intention but with rituals.

A word of caution.

a reply to: Nechash

Why do I struggle with the concept of ego deconstruction everyday? Why do I feel like the divine is calling me to rectify myself via autoannihilation? I believe that within the deepest recesses of my being aches a desire for an oasis to spring forth from this desert so that all may enjoy a life of peace and prosperity. Is this inherent will a wickedness when I consider it to be good? What is so despicable about me that there are forces either internally or from without that wish for my complete destruction? I just don't comprehend this.

There are two documents that have been extremely helpful to me personally. The Discourses of Rumi and the Masnavi by Rumi. Both are amazing if you have ears to hear what he is saying.

Aside from this, I often wonder if we are only half our true self here. In Genesis 1, we were BOTH male and female. In Genesis 2, YHVH split Adam into two sides. If you read Matthew 18, you get the sense we are also an Angel in Heaven. This is another split of entanglement above and below.

10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

Below, we are the child. Above, we are the Angel facing God. Perhaps the reason we are empty here is due to the void left from being split.

I also consider this verse, which seems to suggest we are again consummated to our Angel when we return.

Matthew 22:30

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

a reply to: Nechash

Living on the path that I am on, I know that my interior world will be transformative for my reality. That truth is unquestionable to me. So why am I in conflict with myself? I no longer yearn for the empty husks that the world dangles in front of my eyes. Have my ambitions not ascended enough for me to purge myself of self-destructive tendencies? How much more broken must I become, how much more suffering must I endure before I allow myself to leap forth from this bondage?

There are many places in scripture that speak of being perfected through suffering. Look at this symbol:

R -------> S ----------> R

R is reward. S is suffering. When a person takes a reward, suffering follows. Take smoking as an example. It leads to health issues. Flip this to the opposite. A person that spends time in the gym is suffering for the later reward.

The symbol is then stated like this. Taking reward leads to suffering. Giving yourself forward to suffering leads to reward. In all instances, the direction of reward and suffering are the same. Present suffering cannot be compared to future bliss.

Here's a good quote from Poe. He was musing on what it would be like to mesmorize (hypnotize) a person at death. His premise was that they would be facing truth and would be able to answer questions about reality. Here is the quote and question asked in Mesmoric Revelation.

P. But to what good end is pain thus rendered possible?

V. All things are either good or bad by comparison. A sufficient analysis will show that pleasure, in all cases, is but the contrast of pain. Positive pleasure is a mere idea. To be happy at any one point we must have suffered at the same. Never to suffer would have been never to have been blessed. But it has been shown that, in the inorganic life, pain cannot be thus the necessity for the organic. The pain of the primitive life of Earth, is the sole basis of the bliss of the ultimate life in Heaven.

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u

originally posted by: deadeyedick
I found myself skipping the parts of the thread that had the lines of the chant. It just seemed like something above my paygrade so to speak.

Good for you! I did the same.

Chants, curses, and blasphemy words should not be read word for word or spoke out. In this case it has nothing to do with personal intention but with rituals.

A word of caution.

I noticed in going to the links, reading what was provided, and the OP asking, repeatedly, who the Grigori are…
in the wiki, it was said that the Grigori fell because they rejected the Lord of Light, in favor of , well, this guy, and I'm not gonna say his name three times.

Although in this chapter the name "Satanail" is mentioned only in a heading added in one manuscript,[18][24] this chapter too is often understood to refer to Satanail and his angels, the Grigori.[18][23]

The Mercer Dictionary of the Bible makes a distinction between the Grigori and the fallen angels by stating that in fifth heaven, Enoch sees "the giants whose brothers were the fallen angels."[25]

The longer recension of 2 Enoch 18:3 identifies the prisoners of second heaven as the angels of Satanail.[26]

Then, you must consider they are chanting this: Dies Irae, which calls for and describes the day of judgement, or
"heaven and earth in ashes."

Taken altogether, I am certain these words have a certain power, if believing them, particularly…..
But, I'm leaving now. The truth may, indeed, be elusive, but I know enough of it to know what isn't very safe, shall we say.
tetra50

originally posted by: AlephBet

originally posted by: Nechash
a reply to: AlephBet

What's your take on Metatron? Enoch has always fascinated me, but there have been so many renditions utilizing his imagery, that it is difficult to sift the truth from the lies.

I think the only reference you will find in scripture for Enoch possibly becoming an Angel is in his ascension. According to the NT, Jesus is the only one to ascend to the Father. When scripture states that there are none righteous, no not one, but then says Enoch walked with God, it leaves us scratching our heads.

Enoch walked with God, as the same thing was said about Noah. Genesis 6:9....Noah was a righteous man, "blameless" in his generation. Noah walked with God.

But we know that Noah did sin as God does detest "being drunk" and yet Noah did get drunk and was naked as one of his sons accidentally saw him in that state. But I don't think it is about the "sins" that they had as there "heart" and "faith" was right before God. Jesus was the only one without any sin.

More on Enoch Genesis does leave your head scratching that Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him. Maybe you mean that part? The others were stated to die at a certain age but not Enoch for some reason that he came to "not" and God took him.

So there is definitely more to the story of Enochs life but Genesis keeps it simple yet vague.

Even though I have read the Book of Enoch, I never encountered this
line of reasoning before. Are you saying the Grigori have anything to
with Gregorian Chant? It's not Grigorian chant. Are you saying the
Dies Irae is a Gregorian Chant?

I am kind of new here and probably missed your previous posts. Maybe
I don't have the perspective to put this together. Just from reading this
one thread, it doesn't make much sense to me.

--TomS