Ebola's Cytokine Storm: Protect Yourself

a reply to: soficrow

Just for clarification.....when you say DON'T boost your immune system....should people avoid high doses of Vitamin C daily?
We take several supplements...."C", selenium, "B" complex....I'd hate to think we're doing more harm than good.....

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

No. Vitamin c has over 10,000 functions in the human body.

It helps to prevent the cytokine storm in high doses.

...AA significantly increased the content of IgA and IgG, and significantly reduced the level of both Th1, and Th2 cytokines suggesting that the suppression of cytokine overproduction occurred. In groups III and IV, the IFNγ/IL-10 ratio was 3-6 times higher than in groups I and II and demonstrated a tendency to grow, confirming the beneficial immunomodulatory properties of PF and AA in the treatment of AP. (Cytokines and Inflammation. 2009. Vol. 8, № 3. P. 59-63.)

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The key is to modulate problematic cytokines. The difficulty is that different cytokines become the problem with different pathogens.

Mean plasma ascorbic acid levels at entry for the entire cohort were 17.9 ± 2.4 μM (normal range 50-70 μM). Ascorbic acid infusion rapidly and significantly increased plasma ascorbic acid levels. No adverse safety events were observed in ascorbic acid-infused patients. Patients receiving ascorbic acid exhibited prompt reductions in SOFA scores while placebo patients exhibited no such reduction. Ascorbic acid significantly reduced the proinflammatory biomarkers C-reactive protein and procalcitonin. Unlike placebo patients, thrombomodulin in ascorbic acid infused patients exhibited no significant rise, suggesting attenuation of vascular endothelial injury.

&& Conclusions:

Intravenous ascorbic acid infusion was safe and well tolerated in this study and may positively impact the extent of multiple organ failure and biomarkers of inflammation and endothelial injury.

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a reply to: pl3bscheese

So, what immune boosters should be avoided???

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

I'm not certain. Honestly am not too concerned about Ebola.

My focus would not be on eliminating immune boosters from vitamins, but in general keeping to antivirals, and immunomodulators.

Green tea is just as effective against flu as Tamiflu. Various herbs, spices, and essential oils do wonders to create the correct expressions of genes and provide what is needed to balance out the body.

The optimal diet would depend on the characteristics of the pathogen which is to be focused on. I have yet to do much specific research on Ebola. If it comes to the US in any alarming way, rest assured there will be individuals more knowledgeable than are currently posting on the threads here, who will know which aspects of the immune system to work on, and what not to take. If that comes to pass, sofi, myself, or another clever member will make a thread.

originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: soficrow

Your post seems to imply that you think people should try to fight Ebola on their own instead of going to a hospital if for some odd reason they would get Ebola.

Ice baths? Really?

This is how I perceived the thread also.

Stupidest idea I have ever heard/seen.

*snip* telling people to literally kill themselves by giving other diseases/viruses a leg-up, all the while Ebola (as scary and deadly as it is), is nowhere near any western countries and no real danger.

Best way not to get Ebola... Should it make it's way to the west.. Stay away from the general population, go somewhere remote. Don't wash your dead..!! lol Don't live in squalor where these diseases/viruses breed.

If you get sick, go see a doctor, do not follow the advice of some quack on a internet conspiracy website.


Mod Edit: Please Review the Following Link: Courtesy Is Mandatory

originally posted by: soficrow
1. Do NOT "boost your immune system" - you'll just fuel the virus.

2. DO pig out on anti-inflammatories - the virus hijacks the immune system in a way that causes out-of-control inflammation - you need to stop the inflammation, not promote it with immune supports.

I've been ignoring medicines and food supplements to cure my illnesses for many years now.

Now, I'm practically immune to flu and colds. May not work for everyone.

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Vitamin C is wonderful - use it. Medical use might also treat a cytokine storm - I'd definitely choose Vitamin C over statins and all the other anti-inflammatories they're trying to push.

ETA: The point is NOT to boost cytokine production for diseases that cause cytokine storms, which is what most immune boosters do.

Intravenous ascorbic acid infusion was safe and well tolerated in this study and may positively impact the extent of multiple organ failure and biomarkers of inflammation and endothelial injury.

originally posted by: Ironclad2000

originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: soficrow

Your post seems to imply that you think people should try to fight Ebola on their own instead of going to a hospital if for some odd reason they would get Ebola.

Ice baths? Really?

If you get sick, go see a doctor, do not follow the advice of some quack on a internet conspiracy website.

I agree. I also agree that avoiding exposure is ideal. That said ... the focus here is about prevention (and also, to mitigate the misinformation provided in a previous thread on cytokine storms that promotes cytokine immune boosters).

However, if Ebola were to go pandemic and come here (which I doubt it will and hope it won't), then we very well may find ourselves on our own. At best. At worst, we may find ourselves behind quarantine barricades manned by armed guards, trapped with diagnosed Ebola patients with no hope of escaping exposure. Just like what's happening in West Africa right now.

Unlike West Africa, we DO have healthcare infrastructure - and most likely, if a few Ebola cases hit our shores, there would be little problem stopping it in its tracks. But speaking honestly, our systems are not designed to withstand any full-fledged pandemic. Everything would be overwhelmed - not just our hospitals and healthcare.

So having a bit of knowledge - and a properly stocked emergency supply kit - is a good and smart thing.

originally posted by: soficrow
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

.....has anyone considered the use of methotrexate or imuran to temporarily turn off the auto-immune system and reset it? ....
Now, for Ebola to cause a cytokine storm in the body, it would have to change the genetic markers on the bodies cells, or change the targeting of the immune system. Anyone know which it does?

Methotrexate or imuran probably have not been tried, but I don't know for sure. ....No one has had much opportunity to test things on Ebola patients - previous victims have been isolated in remote -inaccessible- jungle areas - and it's unethical to infect people on purpose just to try things out. [So even if someone did it, they couldn't report their results.]

....Fact is, no one really understands Ebola OR the immune system. They're scrambling. But there are hints - you might follow-up on Ebola's nifty VP40 Transformer Protein. As well, the 2012 article linked in the OP offers a good overview of the gaps and current knowledge (not much has changed yet, but expect substantial breakthroughs following this epidemic).

The term “cytokine storm” calls up vivid images of an immune system gone awry and an inflammatory response flaring out of control (Fig. 1). The term has captured the attention of the public and the scientific community alike and is increasingly being used in both the popular media and the scientific literature. However, while the general concept of an excessive or uncontrolled release of proinflammatory cytokines is well known, an actual definition of what constitutes a cytokine storm is lacking. Furthermore, there is not a good understanding of the molecular events that precipitate a cytokine storm, of the contribution such a “storm” makes to pathogenesis, or of what therapeutic strategies might be used to prevent the storm or quell it once it has started.

This inflammatory thing is a problem and I know a little about it as my immune system attacks my eyes (UVeitis, I have been blind more than 2 dozen times) due to a protein marker change (P238) that may have been caused by trichlorethylene exposure in the eyes (industrial accident) or by a combination of trichlorethylene and the way my body metabolizes certain foods.

In studying other familial (related) diseases like PRP (pityriasis rubra pilaris), I find the protein marker (P53) is altered in the skin which causes a form of cachexia and poisoning of the skin by closing follicles and seems a defensive immune response flag indicating the presence of cancer in the body.

Since both of these altered markers create an autoimmune response that is attack based and in most cases methotrexate or imuran will act as a response suppressor/immune system resetter, it stands to reason that this might be applied to an ebola victim as part of the treatment. If I had ebola I'd try it.

As far as experimenting on people without their knowledge being unethical, I guess we should look at Eli Lily, Bayer, Monsanto, Pfizer, the CIA, US Military and many many others.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: pl3bscheese

Interesting questions. But. It's known that prions use the immune system to spread in the body. Seems the same or similar mechanisms might be in play here, but acting at hyper-speed.

Minimal exposure + Vitamin C to build immunity?

a reply to: soficrow

How Ebola forces a cytokine storm

Ebola virus protein VP24 binds to Human protein KPNA5. This blocks human protein STAT1 from binding to KPNA5. STAT1 helps regulate cytokine production and elimination. Since it can't bind to KPNA5, it can't help regulation.

Result of dis-regulation: cytokine storm.

Layman's Data

Technical Data August 2014

Previous Technical Data February 2012

Supplemental Technical Data (PDF) August 2014

Visual Data 2014

That Cytokine Storm stuff was the same thing they talked of as being the end of one in SARS, MERS and all of those Influenza things that pop up every season or so.....

Really, a cytokine storm is the reaction to osmotic pressures becoming too imbalanced.

originally posted by: oletimer
a reply to: soficrow

How Ebola forces a cytokine storm

Ebola virus protein VP24 binds to Human protein KPNA5. This blocks human protein STAT1 from binding to KPNA5. STAT1 helps regulate cytokine production and elimination. Since it can't bind to KPNA5, it can't help regulation.

Great links. Thank you. ...As you know, Ebola is not understood well enough to treat - and everyone is scrambling to find drug "targets." Your references highlight one such effort, focused on targeting the "eVP24/KPNA interface." Maybe it will work.

Also interesting fyi - this Ebola virus is mutating rapidly, and nearly 400 new mutations have been identified. One apparent effect is that the hemorrhagic symptoms are now rare: ….experts acknowledge hemorrhages in this outbreak have been rare. ...Depending on the samples used in the research for your references, the observations may not apply to the current strains/subclades.

....It's the main downside of rapid mutation.

...... structural insights from our study also provide the framework for targeting the eVP24/KPNA interface pharmacologically to resensitize Ebola virus to IFNs.

Thanks Sofi,

a reply to: soficrow

Depending on the samples used in the research for your references, the observations may not apply to the current strains/subclades.

....It's the main downside of rapid mutation.

structural insights from our study also provide the framework for targeting the eVP24/KPNA interface pharmacologically to resensitize Ebola virus to IFNs.

The link you provided is the same Technical Data link I provided.

a reply to: soficrow

nearly 400 new mutations have been identified

Actually, that should read: 395 mutation in the last 10 years. 50 in the first month of the outbreak.
Genomic sequencing reveals mutations, insights into 2014 Ebola outbreak

Genomic surveillance elucidates Ebola virus origin and transmission during the 2014 outbreak Table S4

Ebolavirus Genome Sequencing

originally posted by: oletimer

a reply to: soficrow

Depending on the samples used in the research for your references, the observations may not apply to the current strains/subclades.

....It's the main downside of rapid mutation.

structural insights from our study also provide the framework for targeting the eVP24/KPNA interface pharmacologically to resensitize Ebola virus to IFNs.

The link you provided is the same Technical Data link I provided.

Yes. I quoted it to show that as I said, "Your references highlight one such effort, focused on targeting the "eVP24/KPNA interface." " As I also said, depending on the samples used in the research for your references, the observations may not apply to the current strains/subclades.

....It's the main downside of rapid mutation.

As you point out, the mutation rate has gone up from 0.3 per month to 50 per month - it's just a scientific fact that it's hard to stay ahead of rapidly mutating viruses.

a reply to: soficrow

wow! 400 new variations of ebola.

that is really scary.

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Sorry it took so long. ...As pl3bscheese says, Vitamin c has over 10,000 functions in the human body - and yes, it DOES help to prevent the cytokine storm in high doses. ....The ones to avoid are the generic immune boosters like Echinacea - great pre-sick support, but stop immediately if/when you start getting sick.

....A few days ago I would have agreed with pl3bscheese, "Honestly am not too concerned about Ebola coming here." Now, not so much.

Ebola obviously is far more transmissible than it has ever been, it's mutating rapidly, and what happens next is anyone's guess. ....It has to be stopped in West Africa, but no one's coming up with the needed manpower and resources - there aren't enough Haz-mat suits in the entire world to meet Africa's needs, never mind if turns out the rest of us need them too. Long story short, it's not looking so good. ...Best build up your emergency supplies and be prepared to hunker down for a while in a while. Oh yeah, and read this: Ebola in the ER

I can't find the link (somewhere in these Ebola threads) that suggested Ebola (like other illnesses) thrives in an acidic environment so changing your system to alkaline could help survive it. If this is true, which I'm not saying it is - it is worth considering ways to bring your system to an alkaline state by using baking soda. It is also recommended to combat cancers (that thrive in acidic environments).

Another remedy I'm familiar with and know it has many health benefits is food grade hydrogen peroxide - I don't know if it alkanizes the body, but it does help to oxygenates the blood and combats any viruses that are anaerobic because of this.

Does anyone with some experience or background in these have any input about it? I am not suggesting these are guaranteed treatments for Ebola, I am suggesting they may help the odds of coming out the other end of it alive rather than dead....

originally posted by: wishes
I can't find the link (somewhere in these Ebola threads) that suggested Ebola (like other illnesses) thrives in an acidic environment so changing your system to alkaline could help survive it. If this is true, which I'm not saying it is - it is worth considering ways to bring your system to an alkaline state by using baking soda. It is also recommended to combat cancers (that thrive in acidic environments).

Another remedy I'm familiar with and know it has many health benefits is food grade hydrogen peroxide - I don't know if it alkanizes the body, but it does help to oxygenates the blood and combats any viruses that are anaerobic because of this.

Does anyone with some experience or background in these have any input about it? I am not suggesting these are guaranteed treatments for Ebola, I am suggesting they may help the odds of coming out the other end of it alive rather than dead....

Could you please confirm your information - and provide references - before we start discussing solutions to problems that may not exist?

Thanks, sofi

a reply to: soficrow
? provide references for speculating? It is (I think) common knowledge that baking soda is alkalizing:

Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate, which is an antacid. The many uses of baking soda are based on its alkaline or "acid neutralizing" nature. Based on this innate property, baking soda has been used as a panacea in the treatment and prevention of conditions affecting several body systems.

www.livestrong.com...

I think it is also common knowledge that most, if not all dis-eases exist/proliferate in an acidic environment rather than an alkaline environment:

What is Acidosis? When your body fluids contain too much acid, this is known as acidosis. Acidosis occurs when your kidneys and lungs can’t keep your body’s pH in balance.

www.healthline.com...

Dr. Robert Morse, ND has a ton of youtube videos that greatly detail acidosis (diet) and its effects as the root of all diseases. The bottom line is our diet through generations have weakened our entire system because of the continual acidic state the diets create hence younger people getting sicker every generation - he says if you want to feed a tumor and watch it grow have a glass of milk - that we are designed to eat fruits and vegetables and EVERY other food (including grains, dairy, meat, etc.) turns our bodies into an acidic environment and the only way to return to a more alkaline balance (and thereby heal whatever is ailing us) is by eating only fruit. I think he's brilliant and spot on - the solution is simple - eat only fruit, it will detoxify the cells/lymphatic system which in turn will heal whatever dis-ease you're suffering from. And when healthy eat only fruit and vegetables.

Published on Apr 17, 2013
"99% of all sickening processes take place in the lymphatic system, not in the blood." ~ Robert Morse, N.D., D.Sc., I.D., M.H.

www.youtube.com...

Here is a brief discussion about 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide:
search.yahoo.com...;_ylt=AwrSbmbupARU5XoA_PVXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA2Noci1ncmVlbnRyZWVfZmYEZ3ByaWQDaWIxQVhMM1VTRW1mYzQwZVQzY0J XQQRuX3JzbHQDMARuX3N1Z2cDMQRvcmlnaW4Dc2VhcmNoLnlhaG9vLmNvbQRwb3MDMARwcXN0cgMEcHFzdHJsAwRxc3RybAM0NQRxdWVyeQNhbnRpb3hpZGVudHMgYW5kIGZvb2QgZ3JhZGUgaHlkc m9nZW4gcGVyb3hpZGUEdF9zdG1wAzE0MDk1OTA1Mzc-?p=antioxidents+and+food+grade+hydrogen+peroxide&fr2=sb-top-search&fr=chr-greentree_ff&type=501549

So back to my speculation - someone posted a link that talked about Ebola living in an acidic environment in one of these Ebola threads which I cannot find. The vast majority of us (I believe) would qualify as having a highly acidic system based on our diets - "if" Ebola (like most other diseases/pathogens) thrive in acidic environments, would it not be logical to alkalize our bodies by taking baking soda and/or food grade hydrogen peroxide?

I am not suggesting to anyone to do this, I am exploring the question based on the premise that an alkaline system remains an unfriendly environment to diseases. We check hot tubs for PH levels, why should our bodies be any different?

The medical profession generally refuses to use diet and disease in the same sentence or acknowledge any correlation. Could it be that those people who survive Ebola have a more alkaline system than those who don't? Could it be if someone contracts Ebola that if they try and alkalize their system by taking baking soda for example could have a fighting chance? As Dr. Morse says when you go to emergency the first thing they usually do is give you a saline intravenous line - saline (salt) is alkalizing.

Also there's a premise that by having sauna's when ill (like with a cold) will raise the internal body temperature and kill the bacteria. I've experienced this personally - I don't really know if this would work for Ebola, I'm just trying to throw out some ideas as possible options to survive it, not prevent it.