The Norse and Salishan Native Americans both prophesied about a coming wild canine.

a reply to: Hanslune

Coyotes are not really considered dangerous except in the odd/random occurrence. They have an almost phobic response to humans. you can live your entire life in well populated areas and never see one. The only times I ever see them are while hunting, and i have been still for awhile. Even then, they are quickly moving along and you only get a passing glance.

They just aren't wolves. Not that what you say about wolves isn't pretty accurate. They are dangerous enough as apex predators that they leave an impression on any creature living around them.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Absolutely correct. I live in an area where all night long I'll hear coyotes howling or chorusing and even when one was so close I could hear him moving in between howls, I never saw it. They're really coy.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Absolutely correct. I live in an area where all night long I'll hear coyotes howling or chorusing and even when one was so close I could hear him moving in between howls, I never saw it. They're really coy.

You see them all the time here in New Mexico. Day or night, but moreso at night. About once a week I'll see them on the streets in the neighborhood and in people's yards, sometimes alone, sometimes in packs of two or three.

originally posted by: lostinspace
The Norse Vikings were not the only people to prophesy about a coming great wolf or dog in the distant future. From Scandinavia to the Pacific Northwest, a people known as the Salishan Native American peoples believed a great coyote will one day return to earth.

One important difference between Salishan oral traditions and Western literature is that Salishan traditional narratives are not considered to be fictive, or to be the result of the creativity of the narrator, rather they are considered to convey real knowledge of the world as passed down from the elders. The storyteller also does not "own" the story, although the best storytellers do give the narratives a personal flavor. Rather the stories are considered to be pre-existing and to contain all the knowledge of the world. Demonstrating the significance of the traditional narratives, elder Joe Cullooyah of the Montana Salish stated that "Everything you need to know about life is in the Coyote stories — if you just listen carefully.", and asked what happened to Coyote of the Coyote narratives, Cullooyah answered "You believe that Christ is coming back some day, right? Well, Coyote is coming back some day, too."

en.wikipedia.org...

It’s amazing that both cultures on either side of the Atlantic came up with a similar story about a god like dog coming to earth in the future. The Vikings saw him as a wolf and the Salishan people saw him as a coyote. I wonder if these cultures may have had contact with each other in some distant past. Could the Norse gods Odin, Tyr, Thor, Freyr and Heimdallr represent the good Scandinavia gods and their evil counterparts Fenrir (wolf), Jormungandr (serpent) and Hel (underworld) represent the gods of the North American cultures?

Coyote is a trickster figure. I don't think Fenrir is a trickster figure. In Norse mythology, Loki is the Norse trickster figure. Despite the fact that Trickster sometimes does funny things, his purpose isn't comic relief. Trickster teaches humans lessons hence Joe Cullooyah's statement. Trickster stories are to be taken very seriously and in some (or all) Native American tribes are to be told only in the winter.

originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: lostinspace
And by the way "Coyote" is ubiquitous among native Americans and crosses all language families. This is for two reasons, coyotes are the most plentiful canines in the americas, and coyotes are the most intelligent of all the wild canines. Studies have shown that coyotes can pick up on visual cues from humans in only a few hrs.
Any where humans settled, coyotes would have shown up.
That being said, I was also told by an NA aquaintance that the use of animal names for ancient people is actually because it's been so long that nobody remembers the names of the people involved in the stories anymore, so coyote, deer, eagle ,chipmonk duck and otter or such are just placeholders.

Most, if not all, Native American cultures have stories about a time long ago when humans and non-human animals were equals and talked with each other. In other words, those animals were individual persons. Each species had specific metaphysical attributes. For that reason, I doubt that coyote, deer, etc. in stories are just placeholders for individual people. I suspect that that notion is due to the influence of Western European culture and its Christian teaching that humans are not part of nature but, instead, have dominion over nature including animals. Traditional Native American teachings hold that humans are part of nature--just one part of nature.

There is a recent Thread about global warming and hybridisation giving rise to the 'coywolf'.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Perhaps the prophesies refer to the wolf creature as a portent of coming cyclical events.

a reply to: teapot

It seems that every generation seems to think that catastrophe is just round the corner and could include them. However I suspect we have a number of things slowly coming together that could be rattling things up for us and especially our planet.

I cannot help but wonder whether the 'coyote' is a metaphor for some type of weather or something else. Living in the UK and having no contact with the Norther American Indian culture I am obviously thinking from the Christian perspective but have an open mind, but something feels 'adrift' these days that wasn't before.

The day of Ragnarok has come and gone, with nothing to show but a few viking parties around the world.

Where is the Wolf?

Where is the Christ?

Well, when Fukushima finishes burning down to the mantle of the earth, and takes most of the ring of fire down deep into the Pacific, maybe it will all make sense, no?

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

that is absolutely shocking. absolutely, absolutely shocking. Something has happened, then. Coyotes have a phobic aversion to humans. Or a local population of dogs that looks like coyotes.

Coyotes also don't seem to like each other very much. So there being more than a lone coyote.....

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

that is absolutely shocking. absolutely, absolutely shocking. Something has happened, then. Coyotes have a phobic aversion to humans. Or a local population of dogs that looks like coyotes.

Coyotes also don't seem to like each other very much. So there being more than a lone coyote.....

This is a bit off topic, but I see the same thing here just north of midland. The drought is bringing them out of the brush. There aren't enough pie melons growing in the fields any longer to quench their thirst. I had a front yard pond for a time, but it drew foxes, coyotes and a diverse bunch of thirsty critters, some of which I never knew inhabited our area.

Very interesting thread op. Apologies for the tangent.

Wolves are very common through various mythos, due to how wide spread they are I'm guessing. As well as the different varieties and again how wide spread they are.

Although they are usually put on the bad side, possibly how they don't really fear humans, or they attack out of that fear. Also, wolves need to use cunning, team work, and scavenging, meaning they can pull a rabbit out of their behinds...sort of speak, since they can be scavengers as well as predators. Which is why they are given trickster roles, much since they are stupid like the Fox.

Although, I am curious about other animals being used in other mythos, but they don't have the impact of the Canines. Solo hunters, like the influence of the Lion, the strength of a Bear, as well as the ferocity of the Tiger, although they could of been used in proverbs or metaphors.

Also, Canines are also used in metaphor, in the Abraham context if I believe correctly. Like the Ram and the Sheep in the Ot, or the Wolf and the sheep in the NT.

originally posted by: lostinspace
a reply to: ChesterJohn

I hope elect means more than Israel because I'm not Jewish.

Only if you believe the Calvinist teaching that elect means Gentiles at that time which is an error anyway.

But context is everything in understanding the Bible

So here is the context, it is in Judea, It speaks of prophecy concerning Israel, Only Jews at that time were residence or living there (all strangers and gentiles were sojourners there), and the reference to the Sabbath day it is the clincher that it is Israel for the law of sabbath observance was given only to Israel.

Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

that is absolutely shocking. absolutely, absolutely shocking. Something has happened, then. Coyotes have a phobic aversion to humans. Or a local population of dogs that looks like coyotes.

Coyotes also don't seem to like each other very much. So there being more than a lone coyote.....

coyotes have attacked in groups small children. a child disappeared in Joshua national park in the sundown hours around 8:30 -9:00pm. they tried to blame a single man in a camper who was there but no evidence could be linked. a year later a fire went through the area and over a square quarter mile they found the the remains of bones of a child, under what was left of the underbrush, the forensic evidence pointing to coyotes and those remains were indeed the little girls.

that still does not prove she was ripped apart by them or they found the body later and ripped it apart. The case is still labeled as unsolved. I personally believe she was attacked by the coyotes.

Who let the dogs out?!!!!

a reply to: lostinspace


It is not that odd, Odin the god-king of the Norse was originally a human being.

Danus I the "first king of Denmark" (Danes, Danites) was called Odan or Votan (Odin, no vowels in ancient Dan-ish). He is the origin of the mythos.

He ruled Denmark circa 1000 BCE.

The Danes at the time, were the descendants of the Pelasgians (ancient sea power that reached its climax around 1100 BCE in the Mediterranean) This is why the Vikings, years later, were so brilliant at traveling the seas. They descended from the Pelasgians.

Enter native American History.

The Mayans claim their civilization was established by a "great Eastern ruler" named Votan (Odin). He was recorded as being a white man who came by sea from the East to settle them in their native lands. Their history claims this occurred 10 centuries before the present era (circa 1000 BCE).

Votan is still a god in Mayan culture.

Was there a king in Europe called Votan, who was a master of the sea, and worshiped as a god-king?

YES!

Danus I

Just as Danus I gave his name to Denmark (Dan's Mark) so too did he give his name to the "forests of Dan" in the land of the Quiche Indians in the new world (Amag-Dan) in the Guatemalan Plateau.

I wouldn't be surprised if the first major migration from Europe to the new world by "Indians" was executed by the Danes (Vikings) circa 1000 BCE as both histories claim.

If Danus I is Odin (for Vikings) and Votan (for Mayans), then the two mythologies most likely have similar origin, and thusly similar prophecies for the end of the age.

Didn't the vikings blow the horn of Ragnarok recently? It is oddly close to the "time of the end" according to the Maya calendar. The two mythologies are remarkable similar.

God Bless,

originally posted by: Specimen
Wolves are very common through various mythos, due to how wide spread they are I'm guessing. As well as the different varieties and again how wide spread they are.

Although they are usually put on the bad side, possibly how they don't really fear humans, or they attack out of that fear. Also, wolves need to use cunning, team work, and scavenging, meaning they can pull a rabbit out of their behinds...sort of speak, since they can be scavengers as well as predators. Which is why they are given trickster roles, much since they are stupid like the Fox.

Although, I am curious about other animals being used in other mythos, but they don't have the impact of the Canines. Solo hunters, like the influence of the Lion, the strength of a Bear, as well as the ferocity of the Tiger, although they could of been used in proverbs or metaphors.

Also, Canines are also used in metaphor, in the Abraham context if I believe correctly. Like the Ram and the Sheep in the Ot, or the Wolf and the sheep in the NT.

I'm unaware of any myths in which wolves are trickster figures. Coyotes, not wolves, are trickster figures.

a reply to: ElohimJD

Well maybe not


en.wikipedia.org...

White Gods

a reply to: lostinspace

synchronicity led me to this yahoo.news

Wow you managed to demonize both native americans and african americans in one op.