CFR: Ukraine Crisis, It's the Wests Fault

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Here`s a map with what`s going on with the war (you can click on it to make it expand) :

Novorossiya Map of Hostilities – August 10-25, 2014

slavyangrad.org...

`

What does this propaganda dispatch from the People's Republic of Donetsk have to do with the Council on Foreign Relation? And why are you ignoring all the now on topic posts I have brought up?

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Here`s a map with what`s going on with the war (you can click on it to make it expand) :

Novorossiya Map of Hostilities – August 10-25, 2014

slavyangrad.org...

`

What does this propaganda dispatch from the People's Republic of Donetsk have to do with the Council on Foreign Relation? And why are you ignoring all the now on topic posts I have brought up?

I wasn`t ignoring anything, I gave you a thank you post about it...but I can imagine because it doesn`t happen that often you missed it...?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Here`s a map with what`s going on with the war (you can click on it to make it expand) :

Novorossiya Map of Hostilities – August 10-25, 2014

slavyangrad.org...

`

What does this propaganda dispatch from the People's Republic of Donetsk have to do with the Council on Foreign Relation? And why are you ignoring all the now on topic posts I have brought up?

I wasn`t ignoring anything, I gave you a thank you post about it...but I can imagine because it doesn`t happen that often you missed it...?

I'm sorry, I thought you were being sarcastic,

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Here`s a map with what`s going on with the war (you can click on it to make it expand) :

Novorossiya Map of Hostilities – August 10-25, 2014

slavyangrad.org...

`

What does this propaganda dispatch from the People's Republic of Donetsk have to do with the Council on Foreign Relation? And why are you ignoring all the now on topic posts I have brought up?

I wasn`t ignoring anything, I gave you a thank you post about it...but I can imagine because it doesn`t happen that often you missed it...?

I'm sorry, I thought you were being sarcastic,

No, I`m never being sarcastic !

dubbel

a reply to: DJW001

Independence would have been a great thing for Crimea

Simply put this is your opinion and carries little to no weight about what citizens of Crimea believe. Just another one of your mental projections of a foreign country you admittedly no little about.

originally posted by: maghun
a reply to: DJW001
I thought that you don't even know what you're talking about... Odessa region in Crimea? Perfect spokesperson for the United States Department of State-
Link

Still I'm sure Crimea was under no disillusionment that Kiev would have invaded slaughtered, ballistic missile and artillery shelled them into dust as soon as possible. Seems like a good reason to ally with Russia to me. Providing the Ukraine army ever gets past the freedom fighters in the east. I submit you are pulling opinions out of your.. back pocket.

Edit to add

If everything FAQ publishes is the official position of the CFR, how do you explain this?
A Broken Promise?

More weasel words from more lying bureaucrats I see. "Depends on what the meaning of "Is" is." BS semantics from the westerners again which make me ashamed. Can't trust anything our pols say to anyone, even back then. Obviously they were scheming big time back then as this article proves again. Oh yes, I fixed the link title for you as well.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: tanka418


The only non-Russian news site that corroborates Russian stories is PressTV. When it comes to the downed airliner, propagandists deliberately interpret Dutch "objectivity," ie; avoiding making strong claims that could result in violent public opinion, for "support." It is not.

If you could find an example of a non-Russian, non-Anti-American news source that supports Russia's stories I would be interested in seeing it.

Here: Greek DefenceNet

They don't always agree with the Russians either...but it is another perspective...something you need.

Oh, and the only valid qualifier here is, specifically: non-Russian. The "non-anti-American" can't be used as a qualifier unless you wish to exclude anti-Russian data as well (that would invalidate much of your data). (course, I wouldn't trust Iran very far either...)

a reply to: Bassago

Simply put this is your opinion and carries little to no weight about what citizens of Crimea believe. Just another one of your mental projections of a foreign country you admittedly no little about.

Of course we don't know how the Crimeans feel about this because the Russian occupation troops did not give them the option on the ballot.

I know that Odessa is not in Crimea. I made a mistake because I was not completely awake.

Still I'm sure Crimea was under no disillusionment that Kiev would have invaded slaughtered, ballistic missile and artillery shelled them into dust as soon as possible. Seems like a good reason to ally with Russia to me. Providing the Ukraine army ever gets past the freedom fighters in the east. I submit you are pulling opinions out of your.. back pocket.

And we all know where the steaming load of opinion you just dropped came from.

More weasel words from more lying bureaucrats I see. "Depends on what the meaning of "Is" is." BS semantics from the westerners again which make me ashamed. Can't trust anything our pols say to anyone, even back then. Obviously they were scheming big time back then as this article proves again.

So, when the FAQ publishes something you like, they are an authoritative and definitive source. When they publish something that contradicts what you like, it's "more weasel words."

Oh yes, I fixed the link title for you as well.

You change other people's postings quite casually, apparently. The title in my link was correct. You altered it for no reason. Why?

a reply to: tanka418

They don't always agree with the Russians either...but it is another perspective...something you need.

This is a perspective I'm not sure I want in my life:

The two regional advisors Greek Dawn for western Greece Chris King, head of the combination, and Georgia Virtue Kokkotas who applauded and received congratulations from the majority of the audience.

And also received the blessing of Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Patras. Then dinner was held at the offices of the Greek where Dawn received flowers and many blessings.

As announced by the Greek Dawn will soon make social mess with the popular neighborhoods of the municipality of Patras and the whole of Achaia prefecture of Ilia and Aitoloakarnania.

"The continuous and successful tours that never stopped the May 25 elections made and will continue with the main slogan of solidarity and love to all Greeks," noted in a statement.

www.defencenet.gr... CE%B9%CF%86%CE%B5%CF%81%CE%B5%CE%B9%CE%B1%CE%BA%CE%BF%CE%AF-%CF%83%CF%8D%CE%BC%CE%B2%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%B9-%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82-%E2%80%9C%CE%B5% CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%B7%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AE%CF%82-%CE%B1%CF%85%CE%B3%CE%AE%CF%82%E2%80%9D-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B7%CE%BD-%CE%B4%CF%85%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AE- %CE%B5%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%AC%CE%B4%CE%B1

Edit to add: The address is in Greek characters, which seems to be freaking the BBS software out a bit. Sorry.

a reply to: DJW001

So you say it was the "Russian troops" who intimidated the citizens of Crimea? Was that in a similar manner to the Iraq elections where the citizens were intimidated into voting correctly by US troops? Or does this only work one way to you, US is angels, Russia is devils? Seems naive to me.

So, when the FAQ publishes something you like, they are an authoritative and definitive source. When they publish something that contradicts what you like, it's "more weasel words."

Not at all. In this case the OP is focused on western weasel words. The east produces many as well and I'd call them out on it if that was the topic of the OP. For now we're focused on "Western weasel words."

You change other people's postings quite casually, apparently. The title in my link was correct. You altered it for no reason. Why?

In this case yes, no it wasn't and because your title while containing the original title words also contained your add on editorial which I removed for the sake of clarity.

originally posted by: DJW001
Edit to add: The address is in Greek characters, which seems to be freaking the BBS software out a bit. Sorry.

LOL...no, actually anything placed in your address bar is "UTF-8", and sorry man you don't have "BBS software"...But you see this is just one more example of the BS you have been throwing around...don't you take any of this seriously? I mean some stuff around here you can laugh at and ignore, but this will affect the whole world. IF a fight breaks out, YOU may have to go fight, so it would seem to be in your best interest to acquire the best "handle" on this that you can; and single sourcing your data is not the way to go.


Oh by the way; Who / What is this "FAQ" of ours

originally posted by: Bassago
a reply to: DJW001

So you say it was the "Russian troops" who intimidated the citizens of Crimea? Was that in a similar manner to the Iraq elections where the citizens were intimidated into voting correctly by US troops? Or does this only work one way to you, US is angels, Russia is devils? Seems naive to me.

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if some of that did happen...just like it did in Iraq.

Polite Green Men have arrived !!

mobile.reuters.com...

Unidentified, heavily-armed strangers with Russian accents have appeared in an eastern Ukrainian village, arousing residents' suspicions despite Moscow's denials that its troops have deliberately infiltrated the frontier.

Two witnesses told Reuters on Tuesday that the dozens of men, who arrived at the weekend and set up a road block, were not local and had military ration packs marked with Russian writing.

While they wore no insignia, their appearance or behavior bore striking similarities to a group of Russian troops detained in Ukraine in the past few days, and to Russian forces which occupied Crimea earlier this year, the witnesses said.

a reply to: victor7

I was reading the reports earlier.

It can just be Russian trained "reinforcements," not actually really Russians, but mercenary type troops. But it also could well be Russians helping out taking the south to get Mariupol back for the Separatists. Russia has an interest to get land access to Crimea and need Mariupol for that. But it`s safe to say something is going on in the south.

sa reply to: BornAgainAlien

Meriupol alone will not get Russia to Crimea. Access is needed all the way to Kherson Oblast. Infact, taking Nikoleyev and Odessa should also be on the agenda to connect with Tranistria in Moldova.

It seems Junta forces want to put up a fight for Meriupol and even Amvrosivka. They are better off giving up and pulling back to protect Kiev and western parts of Ukraine.

Russia should send in good number of RPG-29s which can even kill M1-Abrams of the newest grade. Currently Junta has much higher numbers of tanks and in city based block to block fighting a mobile and handy RPG-29 is a valuable tool to have. There have been reports that some places it took several hits of RPG-7s to kill the T-64s. RPG-29 will cut right in with one hit.

a reply to: tanka418

LOL...no, actually anything placed in your address bar is "UTF-8", and sorry man you don't have "BBS software"...But you see this is just one more example of the BS you have been throwing around...don't you take any of this seriously?

Did I say I have BBS software? How do you suppose you and I are able to post on this BBS? This site runs software that we use. It didn't seem to like a ling string of "alt control" characters. What makes you think I'm not taking things seriously?

I mean some stuff around here you can laugh at and ignore, but this will affect the whole world. IF a fight breaks out, YOU may have to go fight, so it would seem to be in your best interest to acquire the best "handle" on this that you can; and single sourcing your data is not the way to go.

I am not the one simultaneously denying that there are Russian troops in eastern Ukraine... while cheering them on. I am puzzled by your use of the word "data." I have posted no data at all. When I require information to support my analysis or opinion, it is never raw data, and I am honest about the source. I never link to a blog that is intentionally distorting facts; if so, please show me an instance.

Oh by the way; Who / What is this "FAQ" of ours

I'm the one who is not taking things seriously? FAQ = Foreign Affairs Quarterly, the journal of the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations). It is the topic of this thread.

a reply to: Bassago

So you say it was the "Russian troops" who intimidated the citizens of Crimea? Was that in a similar manner to the Iraq elections where the citizens were intimidated into voting correctly by US troops? Or does this only work one way to you, US is angels, Russia is devils? Seems naive to me.

Yes, just like the American troops in Iraq. Military intimidation is military intimidation, unless, apparently, it is done by Russians.

Not at all. In this case the OP is focused on western weasel words. The east produces many as well and I'd call them out on it if that was the topic of the OP. For now we're focused on "Western weasel words."

You did not bother to read the article I linked to, so I know you're just spinning.

In this case yes, no it wasn't and because your title while containing the original title words also contained your add on editorial which I removed for the sake of clarity.

If you had bothered to click on the link, you would have known that the title actually is:

"A Broken Promise? What the West Really Told Moscow About NATO Expansion!"

When I misspoke, I acknowledged my mistake, yet you seem to want to hold it over me. The ball is in your court now.

www.liveleak.com...

Idiots leaving families to walk into a "real mess".

When the other side involved is US or Russia or any other major regional power...........then better pack the goodies and head to the woods. That would boost your chances of survival and come back in one piece

a reply to: victor7

I wonder how the real situation actually is ?

Isn`t it going too well for Kiev ?

I have seen maybe signs of pressure also (reading between the lines) from EU towards Kiev of ending it. Kiev sure has serious economic problems atm. EU gets hammered with sanctions and probably wants gas this winter.

It would be nice if Kiev/EU finally admit what a disaster it has been and are forced to cut the crap. We can only hope so.

The Separatists have launched a serious offensive and seem to have encircled 3 large Ukrainian groupings.

en.itar-tass.com...

Donetsk Republic army HQ suggests encircled Ukrainian servicemen lay down arms

en.itar-tass.com...

Poroshenko: cease-fire in preparation

A plan will be prepared for a cease-fire between the Ukrainian army and the pro-Russian separatists. Poroshenko said that after a two-hour talks with Russian President Putin.

Putin agreed that the bloodshed should end soon, but it was up to Kiev to come up with a cease-fire with the Separatists.

Putin and Poroshenko talked privately during a meeting between Russia and its neighbors. The EU foreign policy coordinator was also there. The tone was frank according to her.

nos.nl...

originally posted by: DJW001

Did I say I have BBS software? How do you suppose you and I are able to post on this BBS? This site runs software that we use. It didn't seem to like a ling string of "alt control" characters. What makes you think I'm not taking things seriously?

Fortunately this isn't the place for an explanation of how the Internet works, its far too involved...Suffice to say; BBS's died completely back in the early 1990's. And, no you don't have BBS software...this internet site uses what is known as LAMP stack technology. The web site itself is a computer application that runs on the ATS servers.

I am not the one simultaneously denying that there are Russian troops in eastern Ukraine... while cheering them on. I am puzzled by your use of the word "data." I have posted no data at all. When I require information to support my analysis or opinion, it is never raw data, and I am honest about the source. I never link to a blog that is intentionally distorting facts; if so, please show me an instance.

Yes that is obvious to ALL. And, that is part of the problem, you post no evidence, no data of any sort, and your links post no data either. So, how are we to properly evaluate your data if we can't see it? AND, after that I will also want to know what protocols you used...

I'm the one who is not taking things seriously? FAQ = Foreign Affairs Quarterly, the journal of the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations). It is the topic of this thread.

Oh, but of course...I was confused because the CFR seems to have left out the "Quarterly" part and decided on 6 issues per year. You should investigate the concept of "Convention" it is truly wonderful...makes such things as "FAQ" take on additional meaning...and makes it possible for it to mean the same thing to everyone as in: FAQ ... Frequently Asked Question (the current most popular convention for FAQ).