California Legislature Passes 'kill switch' Cell Phone Bill.

originally posted by: peterzworld51
About those simple lil electric devices" Cell phones £.. Ok can you immagine how odd it would seem to not lose your phone its not a tattoo that you keep with you forever not even a child that you carry with you an raise someway or another.. its a smart phone so why is everyone losing their phone . I have lost my phones androids. Blackberryz you name a phone but ive always have found them gotten them back and last but not least broke them damn things because they wouldnt listen. But you gotta remember your smatee then that " so I on which regards would.like to say please take care of yourselves people so none of rhis could even assume to take place.. ATS. You people are great '''bye

I know exactly where all my old phones are. I recycle them by giving them to my children. Its a great reason to "need " a new phone!

a reply to: ArchPlayer

I've worked in the cell phone industry for almost 10 years starting with the release of the StarTac and ending in 2009. It wasn't a big deal if you lost your phone back in the day as you mostly had a few phone numbers in there and some text messages.

Skip to today and the majority of cell phone users have some kind of phone that can hold important data such as credit information, bank information and other data of the like. Yes, you can lock your phone with a password or code, but that is not 100% secure. The object is not getting the phone back, that usually never happens and the police are not going to be bothered trying to track your phone down. The object is to protect the data. Today's phone technology is verging on carrying around a laptop. If you lose your laptop, you would probably be upset with the data lost let alone the device itself.

I'm not applying this across every cell phone as some people still own basic phones but this is a great technology to have in the case you lose a smartphone.

I don't know if some of you have actually read the article, and based on some of the comments, you haven't.

"Under Leno's bill, beginning in July 2015, consumers would be prompted during the initial set up of a new cell phone to enable the kill switch. If a consumer chooses to accept all default settings, the kill switch would automatically be enabled."

You have the option to disable it already, so to the person who is worried about youtubing something to disable it, you don't have to.

There's actually common sense behind this and not every law is meant to harm you or heard you like sheep.

a reply to: peterzworld51

Most people keep their phones on them attached like a wallet. Can't use that M.O. in this argument.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

People choose to get new gadgets with bells and whistles; IMO losing your phone isn't a big deal today as most phones are replaced with newer models after 6 months anyway - no longer are devices being built to last. If people CHOOSE to be stupid and pay bills and everything else on their PHONE they deserve the risk they put themselves in. I never put sensitive data into my phone. NEVER. It makes no sense, and these phones today are not worth the spit it takes to cuss it. Just because the sheeple do it, that is on them. That still doesn't give the government the RIGHT to put a kill switch on the device as MANDATORY.

"Under Leno's bill, beginning in July 2015, consumers would be prompted during the initial set up of a new cell phone to enable the kill switch. If a consumer chooses to accept all default settings, the kill switch would automatically be enabled."

Yes, the user has the option to disable it, but what if that option isn't present, like in Iphones after 5? What if it is put in as a unknown feature like in some of the messed up locks Verizon is known to put on their phones? Then what?

Common sense has went out the window with people who feel they have to play monarch king and rule over everybody collectively with draconian laws. People need to take self accountability into their lives and admit their own shortcomings and this wouldn't even be necessary.

And I'm a firm believer every law is meant to harm you or heard you like sheep.

It's BS at it's finest - who are THEY to foist things upon the populous. I've never seen a single public vote for it.

IF you want to protect your phone, you need to take precautions - don't get the gov't involved...

I just want to be sure I'm clear on the "fear" that is beng expressed, but are many of you worried about law enforcement or members that work for "The power that be" (eerie noise included) walking around with a little button that will make your phones inoperable because you are recording them?

And to anyone who says smart phones don't hold much data other than phone numbers and text messages, COME ON! Though many of you may not use them for purposes other than that, there are many users who keep address information, credit and debit card information, banking information.

It's a smart idea to have the ability to kill your phone if stolen.

Come on people, need I say more?

Okay, a number of points. Not sure what agenda that the OP is trying to push really.

1)
A modern smartphone costs upwards of £300 (yes, I'm a brit). They cost more than some low-end personal computers, because they are not phones with simple computational functionality attached, they are personal computers with phone functionality attached.

They have an operating system, just like a computer. This could be Android which is a version of Linux, iOS which is the same OS as on Apple computers, or embedded windows. There are a few others, but those are the main 3. They are full operating systems, just as you'd find on any computer.

They have multi-core CPU's, dedicated GPU's, they have flash-ram storage, basically a SSD-HDD, they have removable flash-ram storage for upgradability. Hell, my S3 has 16GB internal flash-ram storage. Thats more than some old computers had.

What I am saying, is that they are not phones, they are pocket computers with phone functionality. Why is this important? It's important because people store important data on them, just as they would a PC. You might not, but some people do (myself included).

2)
This functionality has been available in Android for a while. If I log into my Google account, under device manager, I have a number of options: a) Track the phone using GPS, and its amazingly accurate. b) Lock the phone, and it does what it says on the tin. It locks all the computational functions of the phone, and the only thing it can do, is call emergency services. It works on a hardware level, once locked, you can't even blow new firmware to bypass it, until I choose to unlock it. c) Wipe phone. This is the biggie. It wipes the flash-ram, and kills the hardware. It becomes a worthless plastic, glass and metal brick.

It's had this funtionality long before it was required by any law, and long before the iPhone 5C. In fact I'm sure I saw something similar on my old iPhone 3GS.

Its tied to the handset's IMEI, not the SIM, so even replacing the SIM won't avoid me tracking and locking my hardware. It's mine, until such a time that I tell google that I no longer own the hardware (delete the device). Yes, there is a certain level of invasivness involved, but for that amount of control over my expensive hardware, its something I'm willing to accept.

3)
Police can't wipe your device with a little button in their pocket, just because you were filming them. Get over yourself. You're not that important to them. In order to wipe your device, they will have to aquire it's IMEI. Given that every devce has a unique IMEI, how are they going to know which ones yours, in order to send the wipe signal? Are they going to wipe everyone in range's just to get yours? Seriously? They aren't going to risk that much of a backlash, you're not important enough.

I can accept that if they stop you, they could remove your phone from you, and wipe it. But they aren't going to be remote wiping anyones phone. Its too politically inconvenient, as they'd have to wipe everyones, as theres no way to know which one is yours, unless they are already watching you.

"That guy! He's filming us! Wipe his phone!"
"Err... Which one is his? There are over 200 IMEI's visible in range."
"Just look his IMEI up on prism and wipe it!"
"Okay, but... Who is he?"
"Oh... I dunno."

(eyeroll)

a reply to: ArchPlayer

People choose to get new gadgets with bells and whistles; IMO losing your phone isn't a big deal today as most phones are replaced with newer models after 6 months anyway - no longer are devices being built to last..

Yes, people do choose to get new devices with up-to-date technology which allows them to manage certain aspects of their life while on the go. A device getting stolen and the product life of a device are two totally separate things. Usually, when you get a new device you sign a contract which lowers the cost of the device, you can't go back and get another one every time a new device comes out. You can, if you choose to, opt for insurance. Insurance in most cases will replace your phone with the same model, or the next model up, if your model has been discontinued which is very rare.

As far as devices being built to last, if you take care of your device, it will last long enough to get equal value for the money you have spent. It will last more than a few years, just like the average computer does, and then it needs to be replaced as technology pushes forward.

If people CHOOSE to be stupid and pay bills and everything else on their PHONE they deserve the risk they put themselves in. I never put sensitive data into my phone. NEVER. It makes no sense, and these phones today are not worth the spit it takes to cuss it. Just because the sheeple do it, that is on them. That still doesn't give the government the RIGHT to put a kill switch on the device as MANDATORY.

Being shortsighted like this will get you nowhere, you only sound ridiculous when you call other people stupid because they choose to run their lives differently than yours. Myself, my coworkers and millions upon millions of others use their devices to pay bills, connect with family, entertainment and conduct business matters. It's not stupid, it's convenient. And, these devices are worth every penny if you understand how to use them and treat them correctly. I like how you toss around sheeple like you do. For one, like I've said early, you have to try not to be so shortsighted and see that others are going to pick how to run their lives and just because it varies from how you do, you have no right to call them names.

I don't know why you're worried about devices getting kill switches when you hate the devices and wouldn't even spit on one. I for one wouldn't mind having that option as it will save me a lot of aggravation, god forbid, someone steals my device.

Yes, the user has the option to disable it, but what if that option isn't present, like in Iphones after 5? What if it is put in as a unknown feature like in some of the messed up locks Verizon is known to put on their phones? Then what?

This is here, nor there, as we're discussing this bill, not some made up thought that may happen or may not, when the time comes, if some software geek reads the coding and sees something fishy, I'm sure it will hit the web and we'll all hear about it. You can read the TOS before you purchase and sign the contract if that's what your worried about.

Common sense has went out the window with people who feel they have to play monarch king and rule over everybody collectively with draconian laws. People need to take self accountability into their lives and admit their own shortcomings and this wouldn't even be necessary.

And I'm a firm believer every law is meant to harm you or heard you like sheep.

Common sense is exactly this bill is about. If someone breaks into my house or my car, and steals a device with my data on it, that's not my fault and this type of software will help deal with that situation. There is nothing draconian about this law as it's optional to activate, just like "FIND MY PHONE" in iOS.

I fail to see your reasoning behind people needing to take accountability. If someone steals your things, should we all just throw our hands up and say "Oh well, that's my shortcoming right there"? Or, should we have a method to protect ourselves, which is what this law is trying to accomplish.

If there were no laws, you would be living in a society of chaos and anarchy. Like you've stated, we're human being and we have shortcoming and flaws, and without there being some form of law, they can wreak havoc upon themselves and the people around them. That's as far as I'll go with this topic as it's for an entirely different discussion.

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: ArchPlayer

I'm pretty sure you can track your stolen phone through GPS or triangulation, so this doesn't make much sense to me.

Tracking it and killing the data are two totally separate things. I can track my phone to your house but I can't kick in the door and get it while you're attempting to steal my data.

a reply to: GreyGoo

Well its California, so yea..

a reply to: BlackboxInquiry

You wont see a vote. People on here have proven that their gubbiment 'does things for their best interest' just because they are lazy and like the comfort of ease of access.

a reply to: BMorris

Okay, a number of points. I have no agenda, I'm bringing to the people who care to listen/read what their government is up to with controlling their property.

1)
A modern smartphone in the states costs upwards about 700 bucks and are cheap chinese plastic products. They are more expensive in some cases than cheap laptops, also cheap chinese plastic not designed to LAST. I don't care what you say, they are NOT personal computers. Their function is a PHONE, that just so happens to have some SEO/SMO capabilities. Nobody is abandoning laptops and desktops for a pocket device, and they never will.

All cell phones have had some type of OS, since their inception of having screens. The OS has just evolved over time. Nokia ran Symbian for instance until their arrogance forced them to windows. But nobody would argue that their OS was a good substitute for a desktop OS, or linux. Android, BTW is not a full OS on a laptop. Chromebook proved the inherent flaws in that.

So what they have small multi core CPUs. When you can throw a NVIDIA or ATI card in a smartphone, then your argument may have some merit. Does not deduce the fact that its primary function IS TO BE A PHONE. I don't see Samsung and Apple calling it pocket pc on the commerical.

If people choose to be stupid and pay their bills on their Iphone or device, they deserve the risk associated with that. Its called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Now if you know anything about rooting on Android, you would know that any hacker worth their weight in firmware could root the phone, and reset the IMEI, reinstall a custom rom, turn off your GPS, and do some other things I won't bother mentioning until you do research on the subject. You can lock it until you are blue in the face, I guarantee you it can be reset and restored from hardware on down. And even if you try to wipe the flash ram, guarantee you a hacker knows how to inject into that and keep the data, and save the ram. And contrary to popular opinion, you can undo a brick. Throw a new SIM in that bad boy and voila, new phone.

3)
You don't know what technology the government/law enforcement have to brick the phones remotely. Civilians normally find out some 10 years after the fact and make no mistake, since the occupy protests, this conversation has been floating. For all we know they may try to have a EMP light pulse and kill it - WE JUST DONT KNOW. As far as risking backlash - heard of Ferguson lately?

You cannot say they will not remotely wipe phones. The article is about a bill to do just that. They could get everybody on the network, and as the tech gets sophisticated, target based on device, carrier, and number, if they are not already there. WE JUST DONT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE UP 2.

Journalists and civilians are getting shot and threatened for taping cops in Ferguson, and other places in the states. While it may not be happening in the UK, its happening here. The least we can do is KNOW they up to something instead of finding out the hard way.

(eyes roll)

originally posted by: OptimusCrime
a reply to: ArchPlayer




"Yes, people do choose to get new devices with up-to-date technology which allows them to manage certain aspects of their life while on the go. A device getting stolen and the product life of a device are two totally separate things. Usually, when you get a new device you sign a contract which lowers the cost of the device, you can't go back and get another one every time a new device comes out. You can, if you choose to, opt for insurance. Insurance in most cases will replace your phone with the same model, or the next model up, if your model has been discontinued which is very rare."

Who teaches them to consume at this rate? Sounds like a Century of Self to me. Just because you can update to the next technology doesn't mean YOU SHOULD. A device getting stolen or lost and the product life of the device are equal, neither are meant TO LAST. Do a poll and find out how many people still holding on to the original IPhone. People are paying an arm and a leg for devices, even will contract deals, and then an arm and a leg for insurance. I'm not supporting or rewarding their behavior just because they are keeping up with the joneses. If they got laptops/computers, SCALE THE HELL BACK. Its common sense.

"As far as devices being built to last, if you take care of your device, it will last long enough to get equal value for the money you have spent. It will last more than a few years, just like the average computer does, and then it needs to be replaced as technology pushes forward."

Yeah, okay. Again, lets see how well the 1st gen Iphones held up. I had a ipod touch that didn't even last a good 9 months, and it was pristinely taken care of. No surprised since it has no internal fan. Looks like a hardware flaw to me. Same can be said for the debacle that is XBOX360. Hmmm.....


"Being shortsighted like this will get you nowhere, you only sound ridiculous when you call other people stupid because they choose to run their lives differently than yours. Myself, my coworkers and millions upon millions of others use their devices to pay bills, connect with family, entertainment and conduct business matters. It's not stupid, it's convenient. And, these devices are worth every penny if you understand how to use them and treat them correctly. I like how you toss around sheeple like you do. For one, like I've said early, you have to try not to be so shortsighted and see that others are going to pick how to run their lives and just because it varies from how you do, you have no right to call them names."

Shortsighted? Ha ha ha. People buy into stupidity and I'm supposed to show them sympathy or be short sighted? Don't EVEN try to take it there. What the hell did the world do before somebody convinced them to have a tracking device at their hip? I seem to recall people paid bills, talked ish with family, had entertainment, and conducted business without a 700 dollar toy in their belt. And YES they are sheeple. If they choose to run their lives like trained sheeple, THEN THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE.

"I don't know why you're worried about devices getting kill switches when you hate the devices and wouldn't even spit on one. I for one wouldn't mind having that option as it will save me a lot of aggravation, god forbid, someone steals my device."

I'm not worried about the cell devices. I'm worried about them abusing eventually laptops with this tech. You give these fools an inch they take a mile. If they can do it and kill a cell, why stop there? You for one are like the majority lot, dependent on a device, or shall I say trained. God forbid should you have it lost or stolen. The world would just stop because you were dumb enough to put compromising information on it.

(eyes roll)

Yes, the user has the option to disable it, but what if that option isn't present, like in Iphones after 5? What if it is put in as a unknown feature like in some of the messed up locks Verizon is known to put on their phones? Then what?

This is here, nor there, as we're discussing this bill, not some made up thought that may happen or may not, when the time comes, if some software geek reads the coding and sees something fishy, I'm sure it will hit the web and we'll all hear about it. You can read the TOS before you purchase and sign the contract if that's what your worried about.

Common sense has went out the window with people who feel they have to play monarch king and rule over everybody collectively with draconian laws. People need to take self accountability into their lives and admit their own shortcomings and this wouldn't even be necessary.

And I'm a firm believer every law is meant to harm you or heard you like sheep.

Common sense is exactly this bill is about. If someone breaks into my house or my car, and steals a device with my data on it, that's not my fault and this type of software will help deal with that situation. There is nothing draconian about this law as it's optional to activate, just like "FIND MY PHONE" in iOS.

I fail to see your reasoning behind people needing to take accountability. If someone steals your things, should we all just throw our hands up and say "Oh well, that's my shortcoming right there"? Or, should we have a method to protect ourselves, which is what this law is trying to accomplish.

If there were no laws, you would be living in a society of chaos and anarchy. Like you've stated, we're human being and we have shortcoming and flaws, and without there being some form of law, they can wreak havoc upon themselves and the people around them. That's as far as I'll go with this topic as it's for an entirely different discussion.

a reply to: ArchPlayer

My home was burglerized 3 times and my pool vandalized to the tune if 1700 dollars. All separate instances.The police told me it wasn't in their budget to baby sit my house.

So they are concerned about the theft of my phone, but could not care less about my home and safety. A kill switch will not prevent the phone from being stolen and the phone company has the ability to turn off a stolen phone without the need of all the expense that will be incurred by the police departments that are always crying out under budgeting.

That can't possibly believe that any of us are so stupid that we would believe this blantant lie.

a reply to: ArchPlayer

For one, I have no clue what you're talking about when you say "Consume at this rate". You can keep your old phone, my grandmother still uses a Nokia gate phone, AND IT STILL WORKS! Phone companies may change technologies and make your phone obsolete once a lifetime. The last hardware update was by att/cingular/cellone from tdma to gsm. If you have a smartphone, you most like will update sooner or later as you USE THE MOST CURRENT TECHNOLOGY YOU CAN AFFORD, hence why there aren't many people using an older iPhone, as it important to them to upgrade, and they budget for it. BTW, PEOPLE STILL USE THE 1ST GEN IPHONE AND THE REASON MOST DON'T IS BECAUSE THEY LIKE TO UPGRADE. Sorry to yell, but get out of your glass house.

No one is paying an arm and a leg for a new phone if you take into account what it can accomplish, but you fail to see it. That's on you. YOU CAN GET A FREE PHONE IF YOU WANT, PROBLEM SOLVED FOR YOU.

Sorry about your iPad touch, from the sounds of it, you have no clue how to use it, or work it, or take care of it.

I've read the rest of your rant and to be honest, you're just a paranoid little person. That's really what it breaks down to. So I suggest you live in your little cave, get rid of technology all together and be happy while the rest of us enjoy our lives. I can track your IP right now if I want to, while you're at your Commodore 64 plugged into your 1980's TV. Stop whining.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: ArchPlayer

My home was burglerized 3 times and my pool vandalized to the tune if 1700 dollars. All separate instances.The police told me it wasn't in their budget to baby sit my house.

So they are concerned about the theft of my phone, but could not care less about my home and safety. A kill switch will not prevent the phone from being stolen and the phone company has the ability to turn off a stolen phone without the need of all the expense that will be incurred by the police departments that are always crying out under budgeting.

That can't possibly believe that any of us are so stupid that we would believe this blantant lie.

Actually, the phone company has no way to turn the power off on your phone. So, you're wrong about that. They can stop it from making/receiving calls, data or text. Here's a test that proves my point. Go somewhere where your phone gets 0 or 100 percent service, call your provider and tell them to turn the phone off.

Let me know when it turns off. Probably when the battery dies. Because they CANT. Some program can, but the phone company cannot.

originally posted by: OptimusCrime
a reply to: ArchPlayer

For one, I have no clue what you're talking about when you say "Consume at this rate". You can keep your old phone, my grandmother still uses a Nokia gate phone, AND IT STILL WORKS! Phone companies may change technologies and make your phone obsolete once a lifetime. The last hardware update was by att/cingular/cellone from tdma to gsm. If you have a smartphone, you most like will update sooner or later as you USE THE MOST CURRENT TECHNOLOGY YOU CAN AFFORD, hence why there aren't many people using an older iPhone, as it important to them to upgrade, and they budget for it. BTW, PEOPLE STILL USE THE 1ST GEN IPHONE AND THE REASON MOST DON'T IS BECAUSE THEY LIKE TO UPGRADE. Sorry to yell, but get out of your glass house.

No one is paying an arm and a leg for a new phone if you take into account what it can accomplish, but you fail to see it. That's on you. YOU CAN GET A FREE PHONE IF YOU WANT, PROBLEM SOLVED FOR YOU.

Sorry about your iPad touch, from the sounds of it, you have no clue how to use it, or work it, or take care of it.

I've read the rest of your rant and to be honest, you're just a paranoid little person. That's really what it breaks down to. So I suggest you live in your little cave, get rid of technology all together and be happy while the rest of us enjoy our lives. I can track your IP right now if I want to, while you're at your Commodore 64 plugged into your 1980's TV. Stop whining.

Sounds like to me you are living in a glass house and don't think a stone can crack it. I know you have no idea about consuming since it sounds like you drank the Edward Bernays tea. So you stay in the dark. Old people normally keep old phones, and they are LEAST LIKELY to want to engage in new technology. They prefer something simple since they are not willing to learn new things. Most people CANNOT AFFORD a technology update. How many people can go out and buy a phone outright without a contract. NOT MANY when the tag is over 600. Very FEW PEOPLE STILL USE IPHONE 1ST GEN. VERY FEW. And I seem to recall people being so desperate to get a new Iphone that they sold their kidney to get it!

Call it what you want to, people are paying an arm and leg for a new phone REGARDLESS of what you think it can accomplish. Its called GET A LAPTOP. YOU CANNOT GET A FREE PHONE IF YOU WANT, UNLESS YOU GET A CONTRACT!!!! PROBLEM NOT SOLVED FOR YOU.

This is where you are talking out the side of your neck "Sorry about your iPad touch, from the sounds of it, you have no clue how to use it, or work it, or take care of it." I was a genius at the Apple Bar - ASK ANY GENIUS how many iphones and ipod touches and ipads that come in daily. We were TOLD from higher ups to expect 75% of all outgoing merchandise to come back within 70 days or less. I build computers and fix people's devices for a living. Obviously you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

I've read the rest of your rant and to be honest, you're just a sheeple little person that buys into the type. That's really what it breaks down to. So I suggest you get on the cloud because "its good for you" and turn your entire life over to the system since you just HAVE to put all your data into a device and you just HAVE to do it because its easy of access. SO why stop there. Go over to the cloud and let them totally control all your data and just shut the hell up. I can track your IP right now if I want to, your entire web history, and even give a list of any mac address changes you may want to make or implement if YOU REALLY WANT TO TAKE IT THERE while you're at your smartphone device playing Angry Birds feeling safe and secure watching bull# reality TV corrupting your brain. Stop whining, but wait sheeple defend the system by any means so commence.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

The phone company can put the IMEI on a block list. However, regardless of sheeple opinion, I've seen cops trace Iphones after Apple gave them certain pertinent information to track it, even if it was jailbroken. Androids are a bit different because they are open, but Iphones can be tracked. The difference is, neither Apple nor the phone provider wants to find your device if you don't pay for the service or download their software on it to track it - even though they could if they wanted to. Again, this is about CONTROL. I've seen Verizon tells a customer to call Apple, and then Apple to tell the customer to call Verizon because the owner 1. jailbroke the device, 2. violated TOS by jailbreaking the device. Again, CONTROL. And yes, as painful as this thread is, people do think that the majority of folks are so stupid to believe the lie - because THEY DO.

You're my favorite person on ATS at this point. Let's begin.

Sounds like to me you are living in a glass house and don't think a stone can crack it. I know you have no idea about consuming since it sounds like you drank the Edward Bernays tea. So you stay in the dark. Old people normally keep old phones, and they are LEAST LIKELY to want to engage in new technology. They prefer something simple since they are not willing to learn new things. Most people CANNOT AFFORD a technology update. How many people can go out and buy a phone outright without a contract. NOT MANY when the tag is over 600. Very FEW PEOPLE STILL USE IPHONE 1ST GEN. VERY FEW. And I seem to recall people being so desperate to get a new Iphone that they sold their kidney to get it!

Old, or young, some people want data phones. It's a fact, get over it. The cellular market is not directed at old people keeping old phones. It's directed at consumers who are about new technology. There's more than enough "simple phones", as us in the business call them "basic devices". So why are you complaining? I'm sure you can find a basic LG that works perfect for your needs and you can leave the rest of us alone. Show me numbers for MOST PEOPLE that cannot afford smartphones, and I'll show you numbers that can. If consumers can't afford it, there would be no iPhone 6's or the like.

I'm glad you brought up the fact that most people can't afford a device outright without a contract. You're supporting my argument and I appreciate that. I still have my iphone 4s, it's a little older but it still works. My contract ends in September and I will be upgrading to the 6. Now, the only reason you could possibly be using a 1st gen iphone is:

1) Gave your upgrade to a family member who wasn't eligible for an upgrade and damaged their phone
2) You like the device and see no need to upgrade

Otherwise, you're eligible to upgrade. BTW, no one is selling a kidney to get a new iphone, and if they are, they're idiots. But you're trying to be a drama queen so I'll accept that.

As far as who can afford what, you're going over the top and I really don't understand if you're in the loop, as you're obviously not. Smartphones are very affordable. It's not the phone that is expensive, it's the service, which is dropping. You need a lesson in cellular sales and I could give it to you, but you wouldn't listen anyway, so I wont.

As far as your argument about not getting a free phone without a contract, you can get pretty damn close. You can get a go phone for next to nothing with minutes. Sometimes, during specials, if you buy enough minutes, the phone comes with it. I've worked in the field, you have't. I know you haven't because you have no idea what you're talking about as this conversation shows.

Sorry to break your bubble, but 75% of merchandise does not come back to apple for return. Maybe if you include lessons on the device but not for return and that's pushing it big time. That's laughable you would even say that. If you show me 75% return rate on Apple products, i'll never post on this board again. As far as not knowing what I am talking about, I have degree in Computer Science as well as a minor in Computer Security with 9 years of cellular sales experience. Which I don't even know why i'm explaining myself to you.

You build computers, big deal, so does everyone else that watched a youtube video. Building a computer is nothing more than changing the breaks in a car now a days. Congrats, welcome to 2010. You fix devices too, huh? Funny how you called them "phones" all chit chat long. Now all the sudden they're "devices"

Your terminology alone shows me you have no idea what you're talking about. If you built computers for a living, you would know enough to call them "rigs". Homer.

originally posted by: ArchPlayer
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

The phone company can put the IMEI on a block list. However, regardless of sheeple opinion, I've seen cops trace Iphones after Apple gave them certain pertinent information to track it, even if it was jailbroken. Androids are a bit different because they are open, but Iphones can be tracked. The difference is, neither Apple nor the phone provider wants to find your device if you don't pay for the service or download their software on it to track it - even though they could if they wanted to. Again, this is about CONTROL. I've seen Verizon tells a customer to call Apple, and then Apple to tell the customer to call Verizon because the owner 1. jailbroke the device, 2. violated TOS by jailbreaking the device. Again, CONTROL. And yes, as painful as this thread is, people do think that the majority of folks are so stupid to believe the lie - because THEY DO.

Show me proof where you've witness a cop track a device and I want to see the warrant with it, or provide the cops name so he or she can go to jail. Cops don't track phones, sorry. BTW, any phone can be tracked via triangulation if you know the the IMEI. And, it will track it to a distance, not pinpoint. Unless it's connected to wifi. Also, you don't download the software to track a phone on an iphone, it's built in, you have to activate it. I don't think you even know what jailbroken means.