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Proven fact, if Israel disbanded, Israel would become the next Iraq/Libya
page: 2share:
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
originally posted by: AudioOne
SMH at how ignorant the media keeps people. I am sick of people looking at ISIS in Iraq and thinking that this has been the history of Islam and the middle east for the last 1400 years. It hasn't! Of course, like with any region there have been times of war and times of peace. But why do you think that there have been Christians in the ME who have lived there for almost 2,000 years who are just now having to flee as the parts (not Jordan or Oman for instance) of the region descend into bloodbath. If it was a problem with Islam there would have been no Christians in the region from the 7nth century on. Western powers backing military dictatorships against moderate muslims aligned with socialists helped create this mess (Pakistan, Iran.) Our backing of the Saudis does not help either.
You mean the Ottoman wars between Islamic countries didn't happen. Those stupid history book writers got it wrong again.
I guess it helps when reading history books if you can follow logic and actually understand what you are reading. Like when I wrote that with any region there have been times of war and peace. Just like Europe, Asia, .. It meant that of course I know that there were wars involving the Ottoman Empire, Mongol invasions (that burned Baghdad to the ground,) and at certain points two caliphates. But I guess if you can't read my statement correctly then all that reading won't help you! I take it for granted as I got a near perfect score on reading comprehension on my ACT 20 years ago. I won't hold it against you!
Do you seriously deny that some right wing people feel that the whole ME has been in stone age barbarism with non stop ISIS like war for 1400 years without a shred of peace, art, and scientific and philosophical achievement? Because if ISIS had ruled the ME for the last 1400 years there would have been no Christians or other minorities in the region since the 7nth century.
edit on 16-8-2014 by AudioOne because: (no reason
given)
a reply to: DarknStormy
It probably all began in its modern iteration with Ayatollah Komeini, but it has grown from there. Essentially, the extremists within that religion always get their way and the "peaceful" muslims will stammer on about Islam being a religion of peace with the slight exception in the case of "self-defense" rarely coming out in direct opposition to the fundamentalists. But even many of them will go so far as to suggest that Muslims should have self-rule within their host countries and that Sharia Law should be binding among its participants within those countries.
In today's world, where is progressive Islam? At best you can say that the majority of Muslims are moderates, but it is the silence of the moderates that truly empowers the radicals to wield the full weight of Sharia Law onto the Muslim community. In reality, in practice, moderate Islam is a recruiting ground for fundamentalist Islam and the individual practitioners will remain moderates until one event or another convinces them to join the rank and file of extremist "freedom fighters" like ISIS.
Iran was once a beautiful vacation spot. Libya once had clubs that would put the clubs in America to shame. There used to be surfing off the coast of Saudi Arabia with women in swimwear and every stuff. Pakistan used to produce black hash with opium in it by the brick that was probably the best drug every devised by human minds. My grandfather was a block away from the Iranian embassy when it was bombed, shattering reality as we know it. He watched beautiful real estate transformed over-night into rubble. The radicals take over a mosque and suddenly the whole nation has to obey these people, oppressing their citizenry to a whole new surprising level of puritanism.
The kings of Saudi Arabia didn't want this. The people didn't want this. Who benefited? Had we truly treated the hijackers of Islam as the menace they were 60 years ago, they could have been snuffed out overnight. It was an orchestrated effort by puppetmasters that led to the conditions we see today and the reason for this goes back to a metaphysical war that is taking place behind the scenes of this world between those who claim that creation is good and man should be free and those who say that creation is wicked and the flesh should be made to answer for its sinful nature.
This is a universal war, an extradimensional war, and the fact that it is a Muslim host this time rising up is purely psychosocial. The true usurpers do not care what vehicle they use to deliver their message of hatred, oppression, slavery and annihilation. When Muslims are no longer opportune, they'll turn their attention back to Christinsanity. Monotheism is a danger wherever it is to be found. It creates in the minds of its practitioners a slavishness and guilt that is unnatural to the human creature which can be exploited by these life-hating sociopaths.
The only reason I am against Islam right now is because it is dangerous to us and our liberty, not because of its cultural roots or the majority of its practitioners. 99.999999% of the humans on this planet live in absolute darkness being totally unaware of the nature of the conflict that surrounds them or what is truly at stake. A small handful of ascended mystics really understand what is going on, and the front organizations they have called forth to enact their agendas are fueled by selfish and myopic desires. Even they don't know what they are working towards.
The man who understands the source of illumination can win the game of shadows. Even the smallest man by standing very close to the fire can cast an overwhelming profile. And the blind who are transfixed upon the walls of the cave will never realize in the first place the inherent nature of the reality that surrounds them.
It probably all began in its modern iteration with Ayatollah Komeini, but it has grown from there. Essentially, the extremists within that religion always get their way and the "peaceful" muslims will stammer on about Islam being a religion of peace with the slight exception in the case of "self-defense" rarely coming out in direct opposition to the fundamentalists. But even many of them will go so far as to suggest that Muslims should have self-rule within their host countries and that Sharia Law should be binding among its participants within those countries.
In today's world, where is progressive Islam? At best you can say that the majority of Muslims are moderates, but it is the silence of the moderates that truly empowers the radicals to wield the full weight of Sharia Law onto the Muslim community. In reality, in practice, moderate Islam is a recruiting ground for fundamentalist Islam and the individual practitioners will remain moderates until one event or another convinces them to join the rank and file of extremist "freedom fighters" like ISIS.
Iran was once a beautiful vacation spot. Libya once had clubs that would put the clubs in America to shame. There used to be surfing off the coast of Saudi Arabia with women in swimwear and every stuff. Pakistan used to produce black hash with opium in it by the brick that was probably the best drug every devised by human minds. My grandfather was a block away from the Iranian embassy when it was bombed, shattering reality as we know it. He watched beautiful real estate transformed over-night into rubble. The radicals take over a mosque and suddenly the whole nation has to obey these people, oppressing their citizenry to a whole new surprising level of puritanism.
The kings of Saudi Arabia didn't want this. The people didn't want this. Who benefited? Had we truly treated the hijackers of Islam as the menace they were 60 years ago, they could have been snuffed out overnight. It was an orchestrated effort by puppetmasters that led to the conditions we see today and the reason for this goes back to a metaphysical war that is taking place behind the scenes of this world between those who claim that creation is good and man should be free and those who say that creation is wicked and the flesh should be made to answer for its sinful nature.
This is a universal war, an extradimensional war, and the fact that it is a Muslim host this time rising up is purely psychosocial. The true usurpers do not care what vehicle they use to deliver their message of hatred, oppression, slavery and annihilation. When Muslims are no longer opportune, they'll turn their attention back to Christinsanity. Monotheism is a danger wherever it is to be found. It creates in the minds of its practitioners a slavishness and guilt that is unnatural to the human creature which can be exploited by these life-hating sociopaths.
The only reason I am against Islam right now is because it is dangerous to us and our liberty, not because of its cultural roots or the majority of its practitioners. 99.999999% of the humans on this planet live in absolute darkness being totally unaware of the nature of the conflict that surrounds them or what is truly at stake. A small handful of ascended mystics really understand what is going on, and the front organizations they have called forth to enact their agendas are fueled by selfish and myopic desires. Even they don't know what they are working towards.
The man who understands the source of illumination can win the game of shadows. Even the smallest man by standing very close to the fire can cast an overwhelming profile. And the blind who are transfixed upon the walls of the cave will never realize in the first place the inherent nature of the reality that surrounds them.
originally posted by: Nechash
It probably all began in its modern iteration with Ayatollah Komeini, but it has grown from there. Essentially, the extremists within that religion always get their way and the "peaceful" muslims will stammer on about Islam being a religion of peace with the slight exception in the case of "self-defense" rarely coming out in direct opposition to the fundamentalists.
So what about the Western installed Shah who oppressed and starved the Iranian people for 26 years up until the Iranian revolution? Are you saying that the Iranians are terrorists and fundamentalists for rising against Western sponsored oppression?
But even many of them will go so far as to suggest that Muslims should have self-rule within their host countries and that Sharia Law should be binding among its participants within those countries.
The Sharia we see today is pretty awful if you ask me and does not represent the true essence of Islam. This system could work but you will find that most Islamic nations have implemented a form of Sharia which is meant to keep the masses in their place for the benefit of the rulers of those countries and not the people themselves.
In today's world, where is progressive Islam? At best you can say that the majority of Muslims are moderates, but it is the silence of the moderates that truly empowers the radicals to wield the full weight of Sharia Law onto the Muslim community.
So what do you want them to do? Make a few posters and protest in the streets against the murderers? Most of the moderates cannot defend themselves let alone stand up in any way shape or form to the extremists. The same could be said for people in oppressive dictatorships which are still active in the world today. They are slaughtered by their very own leaders for whispering their disapproval.
The sad thing is those oppressors are friends with the West and you will never hear any condemnation because of that.
Iran was once a beautiful vacation spot. Libya once had clubs that would put the clubs in America to shame. There used to be surfing off the coast of Saudi Arabia with women in swimwear and every stuff. Pakistan used to produce black hash with opium in it by the brick that was probably the best drug every devised by human minds. My grandfather was a block away from the Iranian embassy when it was bombed, shattering reality as we know it. He watched beautiful real estate transformed over-night into rubble. The radicals take over a mosque and suddenly the whole nation has to obey these people, oppressing their citizenry to a whole new surprising level of puritanism.
Again, Iran may of been a great vacation spot but at the expense of people on vacation, the Iranians were starving and dying under an oppressive regime. The Iranian revolution was the result of Western sponsored oppression, not terrorists... If my government left me for dead I would revolt also.
I will answer the rest of your post later..
a reply to: DarknStormy
What do I want them to do?
Respect the Hagia Sophia. Promote woman's rights. Engage in science and philosophy. Return to mysticism, drinking directly from the font of light instead of obeying the dead words of ancient men written on material pages. Reach towards a universalism among people, a global justice, based in logic and fairness instead of cultural bias. Speak out against evil. Gather the many points of view, synthesizing truth. Oppose superstition. Walk away from the clattering madness of the world and towards a serenity of purpose and dignity.
Hold hands with their brothers in liberty and revolt against our common enemy creating a new borderless world where people are protected by a universal system of justice and are free to live, travel, study, worship and trade wherever they please, however they please so long as it does not endanger anyone else. Create the temple of Ezekiel on the mount of the tabernacle to the South-East of Jerusalem and create a place where all of the children of Abraham and their supporters can worship together as human cousins. Create a new catholicism that truly embodies the spirit of a liberated and enlivened humanity. One that embodies the truth of all the world religions so mankind can have a unity and cooperation that does not require them to sacrifice their authority.
Any of those, all of those. What do I want them to do? To be free, to live up to their creative potential, to pour forth their light, banishing the darkness once and for all so that Earth glows with the luminescence of a billion stars blinding those who would look on us in contempt. To help us establish a permanent and independent cosmos where we can be free from the horror of death and annihilation. Those are the things I want to see from a progressive globalist activist Islam. Until they do those things, they are neither my friends nor my allies.
What do I want them to do?
Respect the Hagia Sophia. Promote woman's rights. Engage in science and philosophy. Return to mysticism, drinking directly from the font of light instead of obeying the dead words of ancient men written on material pages. Reach towards a universalism among people, a global justice, based in logic and fairness instead of cultural bias. Speak out against evil. Gather the many points of view, synthesizing truth. Oppose superstition. Walk away from the clattering madness of the world and towards a serenity of purpose and dignity.
Hold hands with their brothers in liberty and revolt against our common enemy creating a new borderless world where people are protected by a universal system of justice and are free to live, travel, study, worship and trade wherever they please, however they please so long as it does not endanger anyone else. Create the temple of Ezekiel on the mount of the tabernacle to the South-East of Jerusalem and create a place where all of the children of Abraham and their supporters can worship together as human cousins. Create a new catholicism that truly embodies the spirit of a liberated and enlivened humanity. One that embodies the truth of all the world religions so mankind can have a unity and cooperation that does not require them to sacrifice their authority.
Any of those, all of those. What do I want them to do? To be free, to live up to their creative potential, to pour forth their light, banishing the darkness once and for all so that Earth glows with the luminescence of a billion stars blinding those who would look on us in contempt. To help us establish a permanent and independent cosmos where we can be free from the horror of death and annihilation. Those are the things I want to see from a progressive globalist activist Islam. Until they do those things, they are neither my friends nor my allies.
originally posted by: dinogirl
Hey guys, this is NOT a thread about land/ who owns what/ etc, there are a zillion other threads on that. (Plus, if you are American, you are on stolen land from the natives right now so you do not have a leg to stand on)!
This thread is not about land yet you make the statement...
The Israeli government have an extremely firm, no nonsense response to the palestinians, for the EXACT REASON what is going on in the rest of the middle east as we speak.
If your talking about ISIL, they appear to be storming AROUND Israel, slaughtering Israel's enemies.
Every single time a strict government or even for that matter, a dictatorship is toppled, take Saddam/ Gaddafi and others, it turns at first to the world media, feeling sorry for their poor `opressed brothers` firing their ak47s into the air in relief and celebration, and talking about how they are finally free and`unopressed`.
Actually you describe the AQ militants the west armed against Gaddafi.
And then, within weeks/ half a year, the entire country is torn between tribal war lords different factions, mass murder, drug imports etc, and its like, exactly what was achieved.
That was the goal when the west destabilized these regions
It can not be denied that if Israel gave into the political correctness garbage and became weak minded, always worrying about what `other people will think about us`, like the UK / Sweden/ France etc do, then within a generation or less, Israel would be no more.
Sucks being civilized huh? You seem to admire conquerors from centuries ago. Israel missed the bus. All nations took their boarders in a manner that is no longer acceptable. We are not going to turn back civilization just so Israel can feel like they are part of the club. Terrible sense of timing if you ask me.
All arabs want and know (and this has gone on LONG before americans set foot there, so dont give me the cia or mossad funded / sponsored rubbish), all arabs and muslims do is massacare one another, they do not give a damn about one another, this has been prooven throughout history, and on a grand scale today.
Actually I think that dubious credit goes to Hempher, an 18th century British spy. Islam need to be split in order to divide and conquer. At that point it was against Islam to hurt any other Muslim. So a new Islam was created that would help Britain divide the middle east.
So go on, keep banging your political correct war drums, and feel `sorry` for the palestinians, you know damn well if Israel was never taken by Israelies/ Jews, and was a typical middle eastern country, it would too, be a place of violence/ destruction/ tribal gangs, etc no different to Syria and Iraq.
Oh, the Jews saved the middle east? Why have millions of people been killed there since the start of the 21st century? I think Israel could do better at that.
Gaddafi was not bad. His people came first and the enjoyed the highest literacy rate and quality of life in Africa. The AQ militants that overthrew him were armed and supported by the same powers that arm and support Israel. Not sure what you are getting at.
The only way to control terrorism, is the way which the politicaly correct softies will scream and cry about, like how bad Gadaffi was, but when these people/ governments are gone, it is clear that they were the ONLY thing keeping the terrorists at bay.
a reply to: GogoVicMorrow
Lol
Radicalism in Islam was helped along by the CIA actually.
Lol
In May 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, then serving as American ambassadors to France and Britain respectively, met with Tripoli’s ambassador to London, Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja. During their discussions, they questioned Ambassador Adja as to the source of the unprovoked animus directed at the infant US republic. As Adams and Jefferson later reported to the Continental Congress, the ambassador said the raids were a jihad against infidels. Adja was reported to have said: “ … that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise. ” To quote the scholar Andrew Bostom, “an aggressive jihad was already being waged against the United States almost 200 years prior to America becoming a dominant international power in the Middle East. Moreover, these jihad depredations targeting America antedated the earliest vestiges of the Zionist movement by a century, and the formal creation of Israel by 162 years- exploding the ahistorical canard that American support for the modern Jewish state is a prerequisite for jihadist attacks on the United States.” The ambassador’s justifications in 1786 were well grounded in Islamic law, and were practiced by Mohammed himself: