Are all the suiciders really unforgivable sinners ? is that the actual will of God? who said that?

a reply to: DISRAELI

If it is God committing suicide, how can he condemn himself?

Your logic is one sided. That is your error. Your dogma leaves no room for possibilities. It no longer matches science. Your religious doctrine inerrancy, is broken.

a reply to: Not Authorized
I have never said that God condemns suicide.
Therefore your argument is not relevant to anything I've said.

a reply to: DISRAELI

So would they goto hell, or not?

What does your dogma tell us?

a reply to: Not Authorized
I don't have any theory on the subject. I have never claimed to know.
That's what makes your passionate argumentation so pointless.
You're not talking to me at all; you're talking to someone in your imagination and inventing things which you think that person believes. Tilting against windmills.

a reply to: DISRAELI

No, be a peace. Shalom.

It was a test. The first step is admitting you do not know. That was what I was looking for. Religion, doesn't hold all the answers.

Remember that, about everything. There are always possibilities.

I think it is a shame Robin left us. Such incredible talent. He will be missed.

a reply to: Not Authorized
You could have got it a lot earlier by asking me what I thought, instead of making unwarranted assumptions about what I did think.
I am glad you have finally focussed on what the other person is saying.
I hope you have learned not to make war on projections from your own mind.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
This is one of the worst parts of Christianity, demonizing someone with a mental illness who is pushed to suicide because of a chemical imbalance in their brain. Why would you do this? Yes, suicide is painful for the people the person leaves behind, but what about the pain the person was going through while they were alive? They couldn't deal with it and just wanted it to stop. Depression is a very scary mental illness because it makes you think your friends and family don't care about you and you go it alone, which makes it worse and worse. Suicide victims need to be mourned for the loss and then remembered fondly for their memories. Do not dwell on the end, but keep them in your thoughts and hearts from the good times.

Yea this is tradition but there isnt anything really that supports this idea from a christian perspective and only a few who insist on it anyway. You should know and understand this being such a critic of christianity.

What really gets at me is how the tv mouth pieces are just all abuzz at how wonderful he was, showing clips of his work ect as if he just took a trip to Hollywood la la land. There is something dark there. Like they have "made a deal with death". Like he never was really human but some wind up doll for our narcissistic amusement even now in his awful death.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: DISRAELI

In my opinion, you have your reasoning upside down in those verses. What if it is simply a statement of fact? Whom destroys whom?

Paul was a Gnostic writer.

Paul wasn't a Gnostic writer. He spent a good a bit of gnostic countering but wasn't a Gnostic. Some of you bible critics make some good points sometimes but are overall the most uneducated on ATS in regards to really knowing what you criticize.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: NavyDoc

The world is not geocentric. Nor, is the universe. How can there be a literal hell? Modern science has disproved that view. It was wise for them to change tunes. They look foolish enough as is.

Still doesn't change the fact the concept and threat of eternal punishment was added into the texts at a later date. History showed us that doctrine was used for selling indulgences and enriching the RCC.

hehe. You are not even close to being a true heathen. I am light years ahead of you.

My question still remains unanswered. Whom destroys whom?

I dunno. I just was pointing out my understanding of where that doctrine came from and why it is not used today.

I don't believe in an afterlife, so I'm going to clutch to this one as long as possible.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: The angel of light

I don't believe in hell.

This is hell.

I think that Earth is clearly not heaven or higher levels of existing/being and that it can feel like a lower hell dimension at times. But if Sheol or Hades is real or not I do not know. I think that even if Sheol or Hades exist you probably have to screw up insanely bad to end up there.

Go to hell for departing this world when you choose instead of waiting for someone or something else to kill you?
I'd think if anything god would welcome those who reject this miserable way of existence. Why would god want people to endure a place as unpleasant as this?

a reply to: The angel of light

I'm not overly religious, my family comes from a mixed religious background so I've been fortunate enough to experience a little of everything, including atheism. In the end, I ended up a Catholic and proud of it.

Here's my take on the matter, be it right or wrong I'm just stating my own belief. If you have no children of your own, this might not resonate with you.

God created us, essentially he is our father and we are his children. I have a child, and the love I feel for my child is unfathomable. And I'm an earthly being. I'd do anything for my kid, I'd die for my child and I would forgive anything they do. They know they can always return to me no matter what, tell me whatever is on their hearts or minds and no matter what, they'll know I'll always love them.

I feel God is the same way. We often hurt the ones we love the most, God knows this. We hurt him through some of the actions we take. But as a parent, he'll love us no matter what and always forgive us. Suicide is no different. It may break his heart, but he won't punish us for something out of our control.

Although I'm against suicide for the most part, it doesn't stem from my beliefs. And I feel that in some cases it's warranted. (Terminal illnesses is a great example.) I've never agreed with the church on the issue, and often feel that a lot of what we're taught is downright wrong. Hence why I've grown a more personal relationship rather than an "official" one through the church.

What I said above goes for anything we do. God loves gays as much as he does those of us who end our lives or live our lives piously. In the end, we're all his children and that I believe is what matters the most to him.

The way i see it is that we are here to suffer. We are in hell and each of us has a certain amount of suffering to do before we get out of here. If you off yourself before your payment has been made in full then you will be reborn here again to finish your debt. Soppose rc just had a small bit of debt left . Let's say 4 or 5 more years and he would have been born into heaven. If you were GOD and everything i have said is correct would you let him be reborn here just to die at age 5? I would but then there has to be a means of his next death and when a 5 yo dies everyone screams at GOD why do you let the litle children die? Answer is because he loves rc and would not make him go through a full life of suffering that is not necessary and risk attaching more debt to him self.

a reply to: The angel of light

All that really matters is that if he made someone smile, and inspired them by his works in this world, then maybe it isn't for the rest of us to judge his final decision he made for himself. That was his, and his personal decision alone and he should be allowed that. He gave a lot to the world. I'll remember him for the smiles and good feelings he gave me in life more than I will for his physical end. Some things should remain private and respected.

originally posted by: The angel of light
The Peace of God to all that belong the Light,
Dear Readers,

The actor Robin Williams, who committed suicide this week under the effect of coc aine addition busted by a chronic depression , inspired the life of millions of people along his Actors career.

His career was the one of iconic positive roles in films: He portrayed an inspirational Poetry teacher that make his students feel passion for the subject, a divorced man trying to parent his children beyond legal constraints, a psychiatrist looking for the cure of a paralyzing illness with incredible compassion for his patients, a friendly naïve extraterrestrial willing to live in earth and scared of the xenophobia that created by the media against aliens, a person that is able to travel to the great beyond in search for answers to the most transcendental questions of the human condition, or a Robot that, in his seek for sense about human existence, experiences a gradual transformation along more than two centuries of technological advance toward Automat, android and finally alive being.

Now, in death, he is still inspiring many to talk openly about depression, an illness that has been reached levels of epidemic in the world.
www.yahoo.com...

There were many other actors or actresses along history that sadly ended in suicide for a combination of Career pressures, depression and drugs: Marylyn Monroe, Brad Renfo, Dana Plato, Brigette Andersen, Anissa Jones, Judy Garland, Jonathan Brandis, River Phoenix, Christopher Petiet, etc.

popcrush.com...

Robin Williams was not only a good man in the screen, he helped colleagues in difficult moments. My prayer now is that the established religion can accept that suicide has mental health implications, when it does not occur in the middle of crimes, and is not fair to continue demonizing who ever have fallen in life in such condition, in the horrendous way traditionally has been by many churches. www.usmagazine.com... ium=referral

Two of the great men in History that suffered , after their death in suicide, the discrimination traditionally granted by the official religion establishment to their memories were The Greatest Dutch modern Artist Vincent Van gogh and the Greatest Modernist South American (Columbian) Poet Jose Asuncion Silva.www.poemhunter.com...

The poems of Silva represent a chant about the fascination for the beauty of spiritual love and the rapport inspired in nature and simple things of life, as well as the pleasure that verses in just the act to think in a Poetic way. All this is hymn of freedom against the materialism that has taken away from us many beautiful things that are granted for free by God.

www.poetry-archive.com...

Jose Asuncion Silva was buried in a cemetery for Suiciders in Sta Fe de Bogota since his body was not accepted in the official Catholic cemetery of the city due to the circumstances of his death.

www.poetry-archive.com...

The Paintings of Van Gogh represent an incredible manifold of color, rhythm, motion and light that invite us to enter in another dimension where only what is beautiful of this world is magically projected by the Artist through the means of brush strokes that map everything into a dreamed universe where places, objects and impressions all mix with feelings and emotions.

www.biography.com...

www.vangoghgallery.com...

Where these three great men, among many others in History, fairly treated by the ones that believe to be in position to judge who deserves to have a honorable memory and who not? is that really theologically consistent or Lack of Compassion ?
or
perhaps a dogma carried out by who are trying to defend the social status quo that sometimes is questioned by visionaries or free thinkers? whose only actual sin is perhaps to have opposed a collective mentality in many aspects that was morally ill on his time and place?

Gospel of St Luke 6:42
How can you think of saying, 'Friend, let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,' when you can't see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye.

Is this really the will of God, or the distorted interpretations of who plenty of defects think they have the moral authority to see the way to rule others lives?

Gospel of St John 8: When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her. Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.
When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, "Where are your accusers? Didn't even one of them condemn you?"
"No, Lord," she said. And Jesus said, "Neither do I. Go and sin no more."
"

Thanks for your attention,

The Angel of Lightness

The answer to the question on God's love,mercy and forgiveness is that God looks to the inner intentions of any act in human existence. Where man must judge on the act, God judges on the intention. Remember that God is aware of all the circumstances involved throughout the entire life that led up to the given decision. He truly understands us.

Mental illness is a physical issue with the body. We are not sufficiently advanced enough in the medical field to fully identify, let alone repair, the problem for the various mental disorders. I know from first hand experience that it can be terribly frustrating to feel like you don't have "normal" emotions or reactions. God would be fully aware of this and how it would play into the situation.

He will judge mercifully. Everyone gets a fair chance and fully informed decision to chose the life of progressive growth to our destiny. I think the only exception would be the individuals to purposely did bad things just to go against God's will. Intentionally try to defile God. Those individuals would most likely not seek forgiveness anyway. If they did ask for forgiveness with all their heart God would forgive them.

More on this at: (www.urantia.org...)

a reply to: Auricom

The Peace of God to all that belong to the Light,
Dear Auricom,

I agreed with you, perhaps the best definition of God , if we accept his existence, since there has not yet a definitive proof given by science against it, must be a Higher conscious or Intelligence that necessarily must exhibit the best virtues we know exist, and Love and compassion are in the top of that list.

If there is a feature of the Human spirit that we can consider elevated is precisely our capacity to feel the pain of other as if it might be ours

If we, in the middle of all our imperfections , are able to feel and express what the Ancient Greeks called Agape Love, the Buddhists call compassion, the Christians Charity, The Jewish call mercy, and the Muslims call Clemency, How a Divine being that must be several times superior to us in all aspects may not do so?

God must be above all resentment and in his omniscience can understand the human weaknesses even better than us.

Thanks for your comment,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: UB2120

The Peace of God to all that belong to the Light,
Dear UB2120,

What I consider is extremely important of what you are saying is that the Judge of God must necessarily Merciful, and I think that is quite true for three reasons:

- First because he is the only one that really knows everything about everybody, he is the only one that is able to see in the secret lives of the people, everybody hides something in life, big or small, but something that is so much personal to be disclosed publically, but that something is always in the domain of God.

- Second, As one of the members (Veg Head) correctly pointed the day the thread was opened, God see always the big picture. And it's a bigger picture than we are even capable of envisioning.

- Third, God is Love but moreover he is true Power, he has the only real power in this world, everybody else is able to destroy or punish or execute people but he is the only one that has the ability to give life. Only who is really strong enough can also have the privilege to Forgive.

Forgiveness is a gift of Kings, everybody can hate, everybody can experience resentment against others, but only who is really in the most higher scale of spiritual evolution can grant pardon, to return good for evil, teaching in that way a great lesson to whom has sinned or fallen. It requires a lot of self govern to be able to release for ever the chains that tie the people to negative experiences or anti-experiences of their past.

Thanks for your comments,

The Angel of Lightness

originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: UB2120

The Peace of God to all that belong to the Light,
Dear UB2120,

What I consider is extremely important of what you are saying is that the Judge of God must necessarily Merciful, and I think that is quite true for three reasons:

- First because he is the only one that really knows everything about everybody, he is the only one that is able to see in the secret lives of the people, everybody hides something in life, big or small, but something that is so much personal to be disclosed publically, but that something is always in the domain of God.

- Second, As one of the members (Veg Head) correctly pointed the day the thread was opened, God see always the big picture. And it's a bigger picture than we are even capable of envisioning.

- Third, God is Love but moreover he is true Power, he has the only real power in this world, everybody else is able to destroy or punish or execute people but he is the only one that has the ability to give life. Only who is really strong enough can also have the privilege to Forgive.

Forgiveness is a gift of Kings, everybody can hate, everybody can experience resentment against others, but only who is really in the most higher scale of spiritual evolution can grant pardon, to return good for evil, teaching in that way a great lesson to whom has sinned or fallen. It requires a lot of self govern to be able to release for ever the chains that tie the people to negative experiences or anti-experiences of their past.

Thanks for your comments,

The Angel of Lightness

Thanks! I hope more people expand their concept of God and not completely rely on ecclesiastical authority.