Are all the suiciders really unforgivable sinners ? is that the actual will of God? who said that?

a reply to: The angel of light

in the beginning, there was only heaven,
then we created god,
finally we made the created god to create hell for us.
(aka original sin, religion, jihadism, zionism, war, money, prophecy, doom porn, 'extreme' science, gmo, etc)

does that sound familiar?

peace

Who said that?

Quite a few who have actually been there for starters...

"As a young woman, Tamara Laroux was in an immense amount of emotional pain. One day she decided to finally end it once and for all and she took a .38 and shot herself in the chest. What happened next was a complete and total shock to her...." Tamara Laroux

"Then I heard a voice of awesome power, not loud but crashing over me like a booming wave of sound; a voice that encompassed such ferocious anger that with one word it could destroy the universe, and that also encompassed such potent and unwavering love that, like the sun, it could coax life from the earth. I cowered at its force and at its excruciating words:

"Is this what you really want? Don't you know that this is the worst thing you could have done?"

I could feel his anger and frustration, both because I'd thrown in the towel and because I had cut myself off from him and from his guidance.

So I answered: "But my life is so hard."

"You think that was hard? It is nothing compared to what awaits you if you take your life."

When the Father spoke, each of his words exploded into a complex of meanings, like fireworks, tiny balls of light that erupted into a billion bits of information, filling me with streams of vivid truth and pure understanding." Angie Fenimores NDE & Suicide

"Angie Fenimore, a wife and mother haunted by abuse in childhood and overwhelmed by despair, was in a desperate state of mind. On January 8, 1991, she committed suicide, hoping to escape her sense of emptiness and suffering. But clinical death didn't draw her to the light seen in so many near-death experiences."

“Tell her that if she decides to go through with the taking of her life, there are eternal consequences that she will have to deal with for the rest of her eternal life. The PAIN that she will cause her daughter and immediate family members will be severe and permanent!

Angie Fenimore - NDE

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
as to the unpardonable sin; that is spelled out in the bible. it is to blaspheme the holy spirit.

Thats not as charismatics believe mocking those that undergo bouts of glossalalia in church services. (Because glossalalia is not NOT NOT the cloven tongue of the pentacost.) The cloven tongue is understood by every listener in thier own native dialaect of thier native language. thats the point of the cloven tongue. it was not supposed to need translation. that makes it useless.

no. the unpardonable sin is only possible when the *elect* are bound and brought before the beast and his lackeys in the end times. it cannot be committed at any other time. it cannot be committed by non elect. The elect are not to premeditate what they will say at that time. they are to leave it to the inspiration of the holy spirit. if they don't allow the holy spirit to take over and say what it wants to say at that time then that is unpardonable. If they refuse to testify at that time that is unpardonable. I am not even sure that this is possible given that they are the elect and what "the elect" means and what made them elect in the first place. by definition the elect have already proven themselves in the age before this age of man in the flesh.

Can you give me what verses in the bible that speak of the *elect* since I want to cross reference it to what the bible say about the "chosen".

its part of the doctrine of three earth (and heaven) ages. so if you are interested search for "the first earth age" three earth ages what happened before adam and eve, gap theory, catabol, the overthrow in the bible and similar terms. it's not that i don't want to or can't provide bible cites. it just that this was kind of hidden in the bible as a mystery and thus it would take pages and pages of documentation. and i have done this several times before and it's an ordeal for me to do it justice. the explanation exists along with cites at various web pages. i will post one or two of them so you can judge it for your self.

in brief the elect are elect because when satan rebelled and led one third in open willing rebellion against God and 1/3 to separate themselves from God by remaining neutral in the conflict. one third of the hosts of heaven remained loyal and fought on God's side of their own free will. it is this third that is God's elect. their incarnation in the flesh on earth is a mere formality but not without it's cost. The elect are the only ones that God will directly interfere with and use as a part of the salvation plan. the elect often met grizzly ends from the OT to the new Testament. e.g; John The Baptist; beheaded. Jonah; swallowed and puked up by a fish...

here is one that seems to contain the doctrine along with cites though it seems to take a detour a bit at first.

biblestudysite.com...

www.biblestudysite.com...

a reply to: DISRAELI

In my opinion, you have your reasoning upside down in those verses. What if it is simply a statement of fact? Whom destroys whom?

Paul was a Gnostic writer.

a reply to: Not Authorized
My reasoning is based on the context, which is in the middle of a long discussion about not dividing the church.
Also on the fact that a plural "you" (a group of people, in case you missed the point) add up to a single temple. The group is the temple. Anyone who breaks up the group is destroying that unity.
You wish to read the verse as really saying that God destroys anyone who kills themselves?

a reply to: DISRAELI

Then who is God? It is a valid question. Who destroys who?

a reply to: Not Authorized
You are trying to take us away from the subject of the thread.
I will respect the intention of the OP and stick to the topic of suicide.

a reply to: DISRAELI

And so was I. Do you wish for suicides to goto a place with eternal fire? Does that even exist? No room for error?

I have sympathy for Robin Williams. I wish him Godspeed.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
And so was I. Do you wish for suicides to goto a place with eternal fire? Does that even exist? No room for error?
.

Where do you get that from?
I cited a verse sometimes quoted as God's condemnation of suicides, and I said it does NOT mean that God condemns suicides. I said the passage has nothing to do with suicide.
How on earth can you twist that round into a statement that I condemn suicides myself?
Before you get on your high horse, read what someone is actually saying. Then you can respond to what they say instead of giving knee-jerk reactions to what you think they represent.

I dont think its really biblical. It seems more like attempting to stop someone from killing themselves through fear. These same pople do not really say the same thing after the fact someone commits suicide unless they are real jerks.

a reply to: DISRAELI

I get it from you, and your religious base. You complained no one gave you a challenge to your verses. I just threw down the gauntlet and turned it upside down. I gave a different view, and you immediately closed your mind.

You never again can say no one challenged them. What was that about high horses? I'm just discussing alternatives. That is religious freedom afterall.

Your authoritative base is broken. Would you like to discuss what other prior religious man, not rooted in Judaism, during that day and age, thought about The Spirit of God? Paul's idea, was not new nor unique. It was quite common. I have questions about the real meaning of Psalms 82 as well. So did Jesus, if I remember my scripture correctly.

Remember, he was Gnostic. If you think that was the only place it was noticeable in his works, you again are wrong.

What does suicide ultimately mean for us? Maybe it is not what you have been indoctrinated with.

The idea comes from the point that suicide is self murder and that since you are dead after murdering yourself, you cannot seek forgiveness and therefore must be in hell.

The Catholic Church as I recall no longer holds this position because we now understand mental illness and one cannot sin if one is not in his right mind and therefore, being sick, the suicide is not necessarily blamed for his actions.

I don't know about the evangelical position. I'm no longer a church goer so I'm a heathen anyway and on the express lane to hell myself.

a reply to: NavyDoc

The world is not geocentric. Nor, is the universe. How can there be a literal hell? Modern science has disproved that view. It was wise for them to change tunes. They look foolish enough as is.

Still doesn't change the fact the concept and threat of eternal punishment was added into the texts at a later date. History showed us that doctrine was used for selling indulgences and enriching the RCC.

hehe. You are not even close to being a true heathen. I am light years ahead of you.

My question still remains unanswered. Whom destroys whom?

originally posted by: amazing
This is one of the reasons that I hate Christianity. Christianity pushes the idea that if you commit suicide you go to hell. We know this isn't the case. God would not be like that.

Since God knows everything from beginning to end he would have known from beginning, that billions of his creations would be destined for hell. If you follow your thinking, then there could not be a hell for anyone. God would not create people that he knew were destined for hell if in fact he is a loving god. You cannot put hell and love in the same context.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
I get it from you, and your religious base. You complained no one gave you a challenge to your verses. I just threw gown the gauntlet and turned it upside down. I gave a different view, and you immediately closed your mind.
You never again can say no one challenged them.

You did not. The problem is that you ae incapable of reading what people say,and therefore incapable of grasping that I was arguing AGAINST the condemnation of suicides.

I quoted a passage wihich OTHER PEOPLE have used as a condemnation of suicides. I pointed out that it was WRONG to use it as a condemnation of suicides, because it did not have that meaning. I said "this has nothing to do with suicide".
At no point did I ever claim or argue that suicide was condemned by God.
At no point did I "challenge" anybody. My opening remarks meant "Nobody has used this wrong argument against suicide yet, so I will jump in before they do and demonstrate that it is wrong. It is NOT a proof that God condemns suicide".

You gave me no alternative interpretation of that verse. You just claimed I was "wrong" about it; in other words, you were the one claiming that verse DOES condemn suicides.
You have proved me right in what I said earlier, when I observed that you were not bothering to read what I said, just giving a knee-jerk reaction to my "religious background".

To sum up;
1) I do not believe that God condemns suicide in 1 Corinthians ch4
2) You do not believe that God condemns suicide in 1 Corinthians ch4
We agree with each other, for heaven's sake! Can't you grasp that simple point?
Try thinking with your mind, not with your knee.

a reply to: The angel of light

I don't believe in hell.

This is hell.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Blah blah blah. Lies lies lies. Your text is fiction, written by men. Focus.

Who destroys who? Psalms 82 has the answer. What, you think the Spirit of God is exclusive to your dogma?

The Universe is a big place.

Have a great day.

a reply to: Not Authorized
"Focus" means sticking to the subject in hand, keeping to the point.
You are the one wandering off-topic, for this thread.
On the relevant question;
You do not believe that God condemns suicides.
I have never claimed that God condemns suicides.
So what is the issue supposed to be?

a reply to: DISRAELI

I have an idea. Perhaps we need to ask someone else. Like say, what Morgan Freeman would think of this thread, your verse and Psalms 82.

Again, whom destroys whom? Or is it simply a statement of mutual exclusivity? Questions. Questions. None of which your indoctrination can ever answer.

Have a great day. Smile.

PS. I understand some parables now.

a reply to: Not Authorized
The subject in hand is suicide.
You do not believe God condemns suicides.
I have never claimed that God condemns suicides.
So what is the question in dispute here?