How to Destroy the United States.....in a week or two

a reply to: DAVID64

I just read this thread and thoight that lol.
Hiya cia/fbi/MFI it isn't me its them lol.
Vote another puppet in...thats how to destroy the usa.

Well outside of the fact that a terrorist cell that large would be doomed trying coordinate anything and would be far to likely to be easly exposed. The big problem here is the NG and Army can build a bridge in 24 hours with 40 men and it is not something hard to do. That means every bridge could be replaced in 24 hours by local NG engineers.

originally posted by: SubTruth

originally posted by: tonyb1968
a reply to: SubTruth
Sub,
One would only need to create structural damage to the bridge to close the road....small charges would do this. one pound of c-4 may well bring a bridge down.

How are they going to get the 1000's of pounds of c-4 needed to pull this off. I am sorry it would make a interesting book plot but in real life I just do not think it is possible.

I think it's extremely possible, you know why? 15 years ago you wouldn't have thought it was possible for 19 guys with box cutters to take down the twin towers along with more of our freedom, but it happened, how?
Because they had help.

Obtaining c-4 or fertilizer for that matter isn't a challenge when an alphabet agency is running the show.

If you weren't already on the list, you sure are now.

a reply to: LrdRedhawk

We live in the fourth Reich, with all the domestic spying going on everyone is on a list of some sort. I'm sure there's a list that includes all ATS visitors as well. It's probably called the "Suspected Nutter" list.

Well OP... I sometimes wonder when people have THAT much time to wargame effective strategies to bring down a nation from within ... but then, whole libraries could be filled by the fiction written on the topic so there is that to think about. lol....

In looking at it purely as a hypothetical? It wouldn't work for 2 reasons. 1 is Mr. Murphy. He is always nearby, always in a mirthful little mood, and always ready to strike when one MOST needs him elsewhere and can LEAST afford his charms. The second is programmed right into the American transportation system now, and while I am sure it wasn't for this purpose? It would short circuit the worst of what you would foresee, IMO.

#1. Since 2001, truckers have been very strongly encouraged (and damn near required in some companies..and I saw both personally) to join a national program of watchers with their own ID number and central phone numbers to call into. The program has likely evolved beyond what I was last certified for, but somewhere I still have my ID card with my ID number to be read to the voice answering, if I saw something worth reporting. Again, it's a widespread thing in trucking, and by my tone you may assume I agree with it and support the effort.

They would be busted at LEAST once, by some trucker too bored for his own good..wondering what those people were doing in the middle of nowhere and around a bridge? ....and trucks are everywhere. Absolutely everywhere. 24hrs a day. I couldn't stop ANYWHERE but literally Highway 50 in Nevada (and not a full night there, either!) without at least a couple trucks going by to hear. (I stopped on exit ramps or turnouts quite often...enjoying the isolation to truck stop parking lots).

#2. Your scenario depends on a serious economic aspect for fuel, and it's skyrocket in price breaking big holes in the transportation infrastructure. That simply wouldn't happen, and this is why.

After 9/11 and guys like me enjoyed the very last $0.89 Diesel our nation may ever see again? We got to see prices hit the heart stopping (and truly terrifying numbers..back then) of $1.89, then $2.00 and to our horror in truck stops? Higher! I was an Owner/Operator in 2001 with my 'big green money machine'. (A Kenworth T-2000 in dark green in and out). My money machine crapped out and just kinda crapped all over ME at those fuel pumps ...until an idea formed in someone's pea brain in Washington. A good idea for a change!

'Lets adapt a surcharge for this! Yes...lets...make a sliding surcharge to compensate!'

Now most ideas in Washington are as bright as Christmas light stuck in a thick bush. However, this one took off as a temporary fix, which still existed for a weekly adjusted index on every dispatch of freight I got through November of 2010, when I got off the road and turned in my keys for the last time. How it works(ed) is real simple. The Department of Energy released data on a weekly basis which, when combined with a standard formula, formed the cents added to each load of freight being hauled on a per mile basis.

So...After that came into effect? The fuel price could have risen to $10 a gallon. Nothing for truckers would have changed in fuel cards still fueling the tanks for the pure process continuing to happen. Of course...cars would be too expensive to drive and your hamburger at McD's might cost $8 for the basic little slider in a bun...but, trucks would pass it on...by programmed design...to the customer and within days of each new jump in energy price.

*** By the way...Prior to 9/11 G. Gordon Liddy wrote a book based around a hypothetical that incorporated what you proposed as just ONE PART of a much more diverse action. That, would have worked...in my opinion..and likely why we've never seen that book of his hit any best seller lists since 9/11.

a reply to: MrSpad

So your saying that this could lead to an economic boom as many would be put to work immediately?

Hmmm

With all the different designs of bridges in the US, who ever is doing the charge laying, better have a PhD in structural engineering, otherwise half the charges (or more) will be wasted.
I could see a government edict stating that all 'gasoline cans' have to be handed in to the nearest army depot, they sure will be needed.

a reply to: Xcouncil=wisdom
Lol... I was thinking the same. The markets would collapse but small businesses / Farmers markets & indiendant producers would boom... Possibly... Definitely blockbuster material anyway

The OP scenario might make a good movie as long as Micheal Bay didn't do it. If it all went to plan perfectly, unlikely, I think it would hurt the US economy for a while but that is about it. The US military still has airbases and a lot of planes and ships and no way Russia or China could do much at all. And the nuclear weapons still work.

First off the logistics of such an operation would fail you, you'd need more than a few trucks to carry the explosives required.

So, lets say a pound of C4 will take a small bridge down or render it inoperable. That would be 2500 pounds of C4 stretched between lets say 8 trucks/vans. That is a lot of C4 to be moving about. So lets say they plant all the explosives without ever being discovered which I find unlikely, how will they guarantee detonation of all the devices at once?

With the off chance a group could discover a way to plant and rig all of their explosives successfully, what is the chances of each bomb successfully destroying it's target?

I'm no explosives expert so I can only speculate but I can imagine if your only using C4 you best place those charges extremely well to have the effect you'd desire. Again bridges are numerous and what might collapse a concrete bridge might merely twist a bit metal on a steel one. You'd need a some good engineers on your team to pull off anything successful.

Personally I'd target strictly metal bridges and target the supports with Thermite...

Then there is the idea if this was successful it would essentially kill the USA over the course of a few days.

If such a thing ever happened a national emergency would be declared and with that the full force of the National Guard and other authorities would get into full swing. The resources you say would be put on hold indefinitely would be minuscule anyways compared to what just the national guard have access too, all they'd need to do is distribute it. 72 hours you say and the nation would fall onto it's knees, I could argue that within the same time frame the national guard could setup a fully functioning supply network alone.

With the help of the people and anyone capable of moving goods it could probably be done in less time than that. It wouldn't be too much trouble to set up an organisation or committee that would pool all resources together and use them as viable methods of delivering goods.

Then we come to the damaged bridges themselves, if they are not fully destroyed then a possibility exists they can be repaired. If the integrity of the bridge is still sound then a repair might be a simple as placing a metal sheet over any holes in the road till another solution comes along. The national guard could erect plenty of bridges too.

So you'd have bridges being repaired and built by national forces, you'd have rail bridges and transport still operable and of course airports be it military or civilian. I honestly don't see how attacking bridges would bring the US to it's knees, it might create a logistical nightmare and wake you up as a nation but destroy you it wouldn't.

US Reserves building a makeshift bridge


The US military will have a lot of makeshift bridge designs at it's disposal, some can be erected within the matter of minutes.

As for the potential lack of fuel, again the military can have gallons on hand for any occasion.

originally posted by: mwood


It's called self sufficiency, more people should know how to be....

Yeah they should, but they aren't. You are only proving the OP's point. Your personal plan to be OK means absolutely nothing in regards to how it would effect the country as a whole.

a reply to: tonyb1968

i got another one, ebola, water shortage, marshall law and an orchestrated black out.


Yeah, that would do in quite a few people. The ensuing panic, riots, and looting along with a very contagious nearly 100% deadly disease given those circumstances.

Good bye USA

a reply to: tonyb1968

It will happen much quicker when Russian and China attacks the U.S. simultaneously. Go to Youtube and check out a vision that Henry Gruver had.

Coming soon to your neighborhood.

originally posted by: IseeyourBS
a reply to: tonyb1968

It will happen much quicker when Russian and China attacks the U.S. simultaneously. Go to Youtube and check out a vision that Henry Gruver had.

Coming soon to your neighborhood.

Russia and China would not even have the logistical capabilty to get and supply an invasion force to the US much less get past the USN or USAF. It is all about logistics and only one country on Earth has developed that capability to any large extent because of cost.

...you idiots

Depending on the future, you might include yourself in that group for posting this. Your daily routine would put you in a position to carry it out.

Besides the unlikely hood of a terrorist plot of this magnitude being succesful.

The solutions to a problem like this, if it were to occur, would be quite simple and quickly implemented.

1. National guardsmen, police and emergency volunteers will be posted at all damaged locations. Also at all vital arteries and major intersections to redirect the flow of traffic and protect the damaged and undamaged structures.

2. Redirecting of all non essential traffic to alternate routes via city streets and rural roads. Major trucking of non essential items will be stopped temporarily. Fuel, food, emergency and medical supplies will be transported by smaller vehicles where necessary.

3. Army Corps of Engineers and the NTSB designates new temporary trucking routes, quickly installing temporary bridges and making repairs to damaged infrastructure. Trucking still limited to essential items only.

4. Once repairs and inspections have been made traffic begins to return to normal.

While an event like this would definitely be costly and cause some temporary inconveniences. I don't think it would have the impact you suggest. In fact I believe in the long run it would actually stimulate the economy in the areas that were damaged. Federal funds would be made available to pay for repairs. New jobs would be created and communities would come together in a time of crisis and help each other.

The initial slow down may last a couple months and the overall impact may last a year or two. I seriously doubt that any sort of collapse or long lasting financial crisis would occur. I highly doubt that prices for food and fuel would explode. Especially to the levels you propose. I also think you neglect to account for the huge amount of emergency resources that become available during a crisis. And the American spirit to cooperate and overcome adversity.

I have been on the road for three weeks...just letting you guys stew on this awhile. So now comes the time to educate many of you. For those concerned, I am certified to haul hazardous materials nationwide as well as internationally...up a gross vehicle weight of 40 tons...80,000 pounds.
There is no "call in number" for suspicious activity as one "supposed" driver mentioned. A 40% drop in trucking equals a 40% drop in air, sea, and land deliveries as trains, planes, and other forms of transport rely upon the fuel hauled by the trucks...and that has just been theoretically cut almost in half.
Almost 90% of the roads in the United States are not approved for truck travel due to low bridges and overpasses and weight restrictions...trucks are, on average, 8 and 1/2 feet wide, 13 and 1/2 feet tall and almost 75 feet in length...now move 60% of the 3.2 million trucks in the U.S. to these smaller roads during a high traffic incident and you now have a disaster of epic proportions.
Most of the largest companies contract with major truck stops for fuel...a 40% reduction in traversable roads means that major companies fuel and park trucks awaiting an "easy fix" postulated by many of you. The "easy fix" does not happen so easily. This activity results in increased demand for a diminished supply....truck stops cannot receive the required amount of fuel and the price increases as a result of increased demand. private contractors and owner operators can no longer afford to fuel their trucks and begin to park them...resulting in a greater loss of trucking activity...in essence, the problem worsens. truck stops that cannot get enough fuel delivered begin to ration the fuel sold, further limiting trucking and raising the price further...limit the largest companies and the smallest companies and owner ops suffer the most...big companies just park their trucks and await the outcome...which is not good in a scenario that limits routes and delivery times due to decreased interstate traffic and limited alternative routes.
at the very least, most bridges would have to be inspected before traffic may resume...and most United State's bridges suffer from a lack of sufficient maintenance...
The list goes on...the actual problem quickly becomes more than the system can handle and that makes the problem worse....
lack of food and supplies begin to take their toll upon cities and the masses revolt. Think a little deeper and you might begin to see.

a reply to: tonyb1968

You forgot to mention the fear factor that would ensue instantly throughout the country should such an attack happen, nevermind the logistical nightmare.

All hell would break loose, everybody's panic buttons would kick in. Citizens would be instructed to not leave their homes, martial law could be imposed until such a time that it can be determined that the terrorist attack is no longer a threat, army tanks rolling through the streets, curfews set into place, etc.

Stores, schools, airports, everything, would be shut down... for a day, two days, 10 days, who knows.

Imagine 4000 vans strategically placed throughout the country (important bridge connections, interstate hwys, city exit ramps, etc). They're blowing up simultaneously all over the country, anywhere and everywhere, during midday traffic, all at the same time on a Friday afternoon... and nobody knows who or what is behind it and whether or not there might be something worse to follow.

We live in a post-911 world now.

It would NOT be something that could just be "smoothed over" within a matter of a couple of days, like so many people are suggesting.

Semi trucks cannot just get rerouted to side roads as easily as everybody thinks. There are literally hundreds of thousands of roads that cannot handle semi trucks for a bazillion different reasons such as low bridges, bridges and roadways that are not built to handle the weight, not wide enough, not straight enough, not graded properly, no shoulder, lack of gas stations with large enough lots to handle semis pulling in to fuel up, etc etc.



You're damn right it would be a logistical nightmare. It could take weeks (if not months) to get everything back to smooth runnings..... AFTER the terrorist threat is given the green light of course (which could be days within itself).

People are forgetting how much damage a homemade bomb in a van can cause... lest we forget what was left of the federal building in Oklahoma City ?

Just to give folks an idea of how ugly it actually could be:



Anyone old enough to remember the truck driver's strike of the late 70's ?

It went all across both the USA and Canada.

Yeah, that strike was settled within less than a fricken week... because our governments understood all too well what kind of logistical nightmare would've happened in a very short time otherwise. All the truckers had to do was slow down for a few days, and the message became loud and clear how fast it could get ugly, not only on the roadways, but for day to day business operations.

Nothing gets settled by TPTB within a few days, nothing. But that strike sure as hell did.

And within those few days that the strikes went on, it's estimated that there was roughly 10 - 20,000 layoffs at large corporations due to lack of shipments coming in. The work for most people came to a halt... that bloody fast. Not to mention gas and food shortages with people in long lineups desperately trying to grab the last of the goods.

All that happened within a few short days.

My father was a long haul truck driver back then, so I remember it very well.