"The real Men in Black..."

While I agree that the majority of this phenomena is earth based lies, because there is simply not enough evidence that it is all true, I feel that this article raises more questions than answers. Answers we may never really get, sadly.

At the end of the day, this article and even the doco itself that it was based on is hearsay to an extent. If they could do such a good job of creating UFO phenomena and fabricating evidence, then they could do the opposite too. It does not prove that "all" UFO/ET phenomena is bogus. In fact it kind of reminds me of classical cognitive dissonance. Why did they go to such an extent to create this phenomena, and then turn around and say they did it all? It's like they want people to throw their hands up in the air and say, "stuff it! I give up!"

I'm not going to let some article wear my curiosity down. I, and many friends have seen some amazing things in our sky. The information is good for presenting another viewpoint and a healthy amount of skepticism is good indeed. But don't let them shut down your ability to be open minded. Totally leaning to this side of the debate, that all of it is a lie, could be playing into their hands just as much as being gullible enough to believe it is all true.

a reply to: MoonMystic
But if we were to take the article's argument for granted and assume that it was true, and that aliens havent been discovered whatsoever and it was a vast psychological operation, then you would be playing into their hand whether you believe every claim ever made, or simply 5% of them.

Classic operational construct is to have multiple "loose threads" for misdirection purposes. A sort of real life "red herring". I already posted the reason why they would do such a thing, it keeps people from focussing on real political conspiracies, or social issues. Overloading people's cognitive abilities is a way to dissuade people altogether.

You've made this assumption that believing in aliens is somehow open-minded, and not believing in them is being closed-minded. I have seen lights in the sky at night that moved in ways that 747s and F16s never could. Im not stupid enough to think that they were aliens though. If you actually look at the evidence, it points to a far more terrestrial origin. Even if the limitless alien propaganda says otherwise. Business is lucrative

originally posted by: Ridhya
a reply to: MoonMystic
But if we were to take the article's argument for granted and assume that it was true, and that aliens havent been discovered whatsoever and it was a vast psychological operation, then you would be playing into their hand whether you believe every claim ever made, or simply 5% of them.

Not to me lol. These guys, who helped fabricate all this information have just come out and said it was all a big farce. My question is, why should we believe them now? What if this is another part of the experiment that they have had lined up for a while? How far down does the rabbit hole go? What are the motives now? I think that by viewing the information suspiciously, (but not excluding it entirely) I am keeping my mind from their clutches. I have done a lot of reading on the possible existence of ET and whether or not they have visited us, or continue to do so. In saying that though I do concede that most ET/UFO phenomena is just over exaggerated stories, black ops and hoaxes. And I have encountered much disappointment. But there has also been some closure there as well. In that ET is still a mystery, so the possibility of them being something far greater than our expectations is there.

Classic operational construct is to have multiple "loose threads" for misdirection purposes. A sort of real life "red herring". I already posted the reason why they would do such a thing, it keeps people from focussing on real political conspiracies, or social issues. Overloading people's cognitive abilities is a way to dissuade people altogether.

Has it dissuaded you and me, or all of the other people who continually come to these forums and other forums from seeking the truth? While I have an a great interest in this subject, I still aim to remain as grounded as I can and follow the "real" issues unfolding. I don't really see it as any different to having an interest in mythology or the worldly paranormal.

I have read your reasoning for why they might want to distract us with this ET stuff. The thing is, now more than ever people are flocking to the Internet to read political conspiracies. Because they are now actually SEEING the corruption manifesting within our political parties. Seems like the most fertile time to be spinning ET thesis, not back peddling on it. Oh, but other fractions of the same coin are still spinning it, aren't they? And there is not really anything new being brought to the table. It's the same New Age crap we've been fed for years, dressed up differently to suit newer generations, and it really is getting old. So I completely understand why folks would take to an article like this. It seems to agree with that fact that the "majority" of it is BS. But does that truly exclude all ET phenomena? What about the historical findings? What about the archaeologists that have tried to step forward with amazing findings only to be shot down by shadow organizations?

It is true that a few people have been sucked into the ET BS propaganda that has sprung up around all the "rumors" but there are still genuine diggers out there. There have always been radical believers and the like. If it had not been ET it would have been something else. It would seem people just like latching on to things. People have always sought ways to distract them self from reality. Though most seem go about that through much less thought provoking ways than researching ET lol.

People have always pondered and researched universal mysteries. And whether or not there are other intelligent beings out there was bound to become a natural curiosity as our technology advanced and space travel started to look more possible for the future. I think more interest in these things was already surfacing.

You've made this assumption that believing in aliens is somehow open-minded, and not believing in them is being closed-minded. I have seen lights in the sky at night that moved in ways that 747s and F16s never could. Im not stupid enough to think that they were aliens though. If you actually look at the evidence, it points to a far more terrestrial origin. Even if the limitless alien propaganda says otherwise. Business is lucrative

I did not mean to call disbelievers close minded, my wording was rushed and without consideration. I guess what I meant to say was, don't put all your eggs into one basket. Keep an open mind, there may be more to the "truth" that we are not being told. Personally, I think they are doing what they have always done, mixing a bit of truth in with a lot of lies.

This may be a real naive thing to say, but the part that gets me annoyed is that they really could shoot down these ET theories even more by publicizing genuine footage of the top secret air crafts that are man-made. Displaying them to us. But oh noes they won't do that. Then they really would have to explain to us their motives for creating such a lie. "Oh well, we just didn't want the public to know what we were working on till now. And we wanted to mess with your heads, hehe!"

Honestly, these people ... their day is coming. When this cesspool of lies will all blow up in their face. I just wish it would be in my lifetime.

*Been a few edits*

originally posted by: MoonMystic
Well first, yes as a former government psychological operations guy I wouldnt trust anything he says, ever. Im not saying to believe him, but I think what hes saying speaks volumes. It is a psychological operation *in itself* to have a discredited person speak the truth, to cause people to ignore it!

In saying that though I do concede that most ET/UFO phenomena is just over exaggerated stories, black ops and hoaxes. And I have encountered much disappointment.

And so what is the reason for ANY of these events being black ops? Think along the lines - why would the government want to pretend to be aliens during an operation?

Has it dissuaded you and me, or all of the other people who continually come to these forums and other forums from seeking the truth? While I have an a great interest in this subject, I still aim to remain as grounded as I can and follow the "real" issues unfolding. I don't really see it as any different to having an interest in mythology or the worldly paranormal.

In my years on this site I have seen people dissuaded by the constant overwhelming conflicting reports everywhere. People like you and me are the exception, I am permanently agnostic and dont believe in any claims. But other people on here arent seeking the truth, they made up their minds long ago and look for anything that reinforces their beliefs. Easy to capitalise on people like that.

I have read your reasoning for why they might want to distract us with this ET stuff. The thing is, now more than ever people are flocking to the Internet to read political conspiracies. Because they are now actually SEEING the corruption manifesting within our political parties. Seems like the most fertile time to be spinning ET thesis, not back peddling on it.

And there are reports on the news from the alleged texas sightings, as well as having a dead-serious panel on whether the malaysian airliner was abducted by aliens. This kind of crap happens when we are supporting terrorist factions in syria, israel is bombing children, ukraine and russia are sparking ww3, china is ramming ships near vietnam, the nsa is spying on its own citizens and german politicians, martial law is on edge in some places in the states... and the media reports the bare minimum on it.

What about the historical findings? What about the archaeologists that have tried to step forward with amazing findings only to be shot down by shadow organizations?

Ancient Aliens is the worst historical propaganda ever - they deliberately lie and leave out facts to sway people to a certain belief. For example, they said that Emperor Constantine saw a cross in the sky that was alien spacecraft in formation, which helped him achieve victory. They left out the fact that apart from being a dream, it was a very special stylised cross which was a combination of two letters, and accompanied by the words "in this sign conquer".

There has never been anything found that actual archaeologists attribute to aliens. The people who claim findings are shot down are generally promoting ancient astronaut theories, selling books.... Im not going to claim that the educational establishment likes things against the grain, but if this stuff is so well suppressed, how come every alien author can write about it?

This may be a real naive thing to say, but the part that gets me annoyed is that they really could shoot down these ET theories even more by publicizing genuine footage of the top secret air crafts that are man-made. Displaying them to us. But oh noes they won't do that. Then they really would have to explain to us their motives for creating such a lie. "Oh well, we just didn't want the public to know what we were working on till now. And we wanted to mess with your heads, hehe!"

EXACTLY!!! Think about the airplane shot down over Ukraine. Or the Syrian use of chemical weapons. Both cases the US claimed they had proof positive of the culprit, but REFUSED TO RELEASE IT. The Russians released sattelite imagery of a Ukrainian missile platform missing the day the event happened.

If they were telling the truth and wanted it to be known, surely they would release it.

So why dont they? The US has dominated technology for decades... Iran claimed a few years ago that the US sent silent spy drones there and their jets couldnt keep up to intercept. The media said that aliens were in Iran.

If the US perpetuates the idea that aliens exist - regardless of whether or not they do somewhere in the universe - they can keep people in the dark about black projects, test black projects and have people believe it is alien spacecraft being chased by F16s, keep theorists away from real political issues, make people disappear and have the population blame it on aliens, experiment on them secretly with phony abductions, make money laundering schemes by selling books on the subject, plenty of possible benefits...

Technology is the most lucrative business. Anyone at the top can do as they please, control the world. Stealing blueprints can make you richer than robbing a bank. China for example has a history of stealing/buying designs of guidance systems. Have you realised that the majority of major sightings were by air force bases? People claim UFOs are being 'chased' by jets or helicopters. Any aviation expert would tell you that they test aircraft against F16s as a comparative study...

originally posted by: Ridhya
originally posted by: MoonMystic

Good. I'm glad you cleared that up. And yes I would agree that having someone already confessing to lies claim to bring out the truth seems to be a deliberate mind-f-game.

And so what is the reason for ANY of these events being black ops? Think along the lines - why would the government want to pretend to be aliens during an operation?

To misconstrue a truth that other people within their projects have attempted to leak? Or to create an elaborate hoax in order to, like you said, cover up their own projects. To detract from themselves OR to attract attention to them self in a masqueraded form to detract from a real anomaly, (to drown them in lies in order to cause confusion about the truth). If I allow my head to ponder the possible "why" to the extent it is capable of pondering it, I will induce a migraine.

In my years on this site I have seen people dissuaded by the constant overwhelming conflicting reports everywhere.

Well fair enough if this has been your experience. I was going to go off on another little tangent but this post is already going to be long. There is a lot to say in itself about a subject like this.

Ancient Aliens is the worst historical propaganda ever - they deliberately lie and leave out facts to sway people to a certain belief. For example, they said that Emperor Constantine saw a cross in the sky that was alien spacecraft in formation, which helped him achieve victory. They left out the fact that apart from being a dream, it was a very special stylised cross which was a combination of two letters, and accompanied by the words "in this sign conquer".

I've always thought that Constantine story was suspect. But there has been plenty of unusual findings. Old rock paintings, sightings of things in the sky from much earlier times that have been found in writings, etc. I know there are a lot of ludicrous claims. And true, such sightings/findings do not necessarily account for ET presence, but it seems to account for the probability that people saw "something" in the sky, and that some weird things happened back then. Heck, I've had elderly people tell me they have spotted similar type of light craft, I have seen, during the time of the second world war. There were a lot of experiments going on around that time it's true, (and the crash of Roswell followed) but have they really had such advanced craft moving so fast an in unusual ways since before then? And even people from that era had their parents tell them of moving lights in the sky, (that many back then would attribute to spiritual/religious things) are they all liars?

I went back over the article again in case I had missed something, but couldn't find a date to when they claim to truly start spinning this hoax. And it has been a whiiilllle since I saw the doco. So I may need to go over it again. Research is like that! Check, double check, and recheck.

There has never been anything found that actual archaeologists attribute to aliens.

Maybe not directly to aliens, no. You may be fully correct on that one.

The US has dominated technology for decades... Iran claimed a few years ago that the US sent silent spy drones there and their jets couldnt keep up to intercept. The media said that aliens were in Iran.

Well yeah. If the Gov sends in drones they don't want us knowing about then naturally they are going to happily allow people to say it was "aliens." Less work for them, right? : P

If the US perpetuates the idea that aliens exist - regardless of whether or not they do somewhere in the universe - they can keep people in the dark about black projects

Where you and me differ is that I do think there is more about our history, the nature of the universe, that THEY know about and don't want us to know about. If they have advanced to such levels of craft, then guaranteed they have advanced in many other ways of science.

The best way to cover up a legitimate contact or sighting of something, not even necessarily extraterrestrial, is to take the truth and mix in with a bag of lies. Making sure that each of those lies has a little grain of truth, so that people will feel assured enough to follow those, as you called them, loose ends. Surely if you can believe that they would go to such lengths to create this big operation, it is not so hard to believe there are certain anomalies that have caused them to feel the need to go to such lengths in order to keep us in the dark about real anomalies?

Eh, I feel like I'm just going in circles now.

Have you realised that the majority of major sightings were by air force bases?

Yeah. The the bright stationary light my father saw back in 2006 that shot up into the sky, towards outer space (he described as like shooting upwards super fast) was near an air base. Then I have a buddy in the US who saw one of the triangle ones, (they seem to be the most common types to see around air bases.) And I don't doubt that nowadays they do have all kinds of craft. Whether or not all these crafts are just man's present creations and nothing more remains to be seen.

People claim UFOs are being 'chased' by jets or helicopters. Any aviation expert would tell you that they test aircraft against F16s as a comparative study...

Hahaha yeah. I have concluded with my friends that even IF there are ET, if they could travel so far through space they would surely not be devoid of advanced cloaking, and could probably slip out of our sight and off our radars at a whim. Not only that, but the idea of them "being chased" would surely be just to demonstrate a superiority, which in itself is incredibly childish and not the qualities you'd expect from a far superior race. I agree it's earth craft testing. It seems more likely, IF they have been spotted, it was because they CHOSE to be seen. As to the why ... well if we can get past the IF THEY EXIST hump, then maybe it will become relevant to ponder these things in mass. I still ponder it though,

BTW. I never actually stated that I "believe" in aliens. I'm more of a "I want to believe" type person. But I'm not delusional. I have had a few strange experiences, (no nothing related to aliens or anything like that) that I can't explain, and I know that if these mysteries exist, then these people performing all these top secret experiments must have some idea, more than us average folks, of what is going on. And they will NOT tell us.

Either way, I feel I have said all I intended to say. I agree with you on many points, I just feel there is more to the puzzle than what this article presents.

a reply to: MoonMystic
Yes, I can tell, I feel a rapport with you and your thoughts. I am the same way, a rationalist stuck in a believer's world.

I have had more bizarre experiences than most people I know... things that arent explainable by normal means... and years ago I made conclusions even though the information was missing. My research led me to ATS and it was actually in that transitive time that I came to the exact opposite belief... I compared 6 different accounts of Roswell, a whole bunch of famous sightings, all kinds of things and the only thing that connected them was that all evidence proved nothing, claimers were gaining wealth and fame, and (Roswell in particular) had so many military happenstances that would have violated all protocol. All 'normal' sightings involved NO aliens, but typically lights in the sky, or occasionally, some sort of craft that people assume are piloted by aliens, when they cant even tell if they are piloted PERIOD.

I was getting into psychological warfare right before that period and everything corresponded. It is eerie to see psychology at work, and people falling for it. Alien believers dont understand what a proper source is, and every alien book cites previous alien books... as far back as I could research, it was always hearsay and made up. Even worse are the government officials who become heroes to the alien community - thats right, when the government says they have no proof aliens exist, no one believes them. But when 'former agents' tell them everything they want to hear, they eat it up. The great thing is, if you inquire whether they actually worked for the government or not, and it turns out there is no record, people say of course it would be denied...

No people who claim they witness things in the sky are not necessarily liars, again I have seen lights that moved in ways 747s and F-22s couldnt, but there are scientific phenomena that we dont understand yet, and black projects that we know nothing about. Consider that the Nazis invented the stealth bomber in the 40s, and that was one of their top secret projects that we FOUND. Imagine what we didnt find, with all the research labs and underground factories they demolished/flooded to keep us from getting them! And this is in the 40s!! Most people dont know they were developing nuclear weapons before the US, and that there is evidence (though not proof) they created electromagnetically powered aircraft...

But regardless... psychology and archaeology explain everything that ancient aliens believes claim. For aliens to exist... it requires so much assumption.
A planet exists somewhere with perfect conditions for life... life evolves over billions of years to some sentient form... they develop to the point of space travel... they somehow find the direction of earth (otherwise they are just searching blindly?)... they travel and live long enough to survive the light years journey to earth, knowing full well when they return their families will be dead (if they care about that)... they spy on earthlings and torture a few of them, and abduct, rape, and kill cows... they never reveal themselves and to stay hidden they float in plain sight for thousands of people around the world to see and capture shoddy video of? It would have to be the world's WORST kept secret! Hundreds of millions of people believe in them.

Not to say that aliens absolutely dont exist, but consider the opposite...
We know people exist, we know we manipulate people, we know miltary technology is ~40 yrs ahead of public, we know the government covers up political conspiracies, we know silent helicopters exist and they have been seen leaving cow fields, we know that wealthy conspiracy family the Rockefellers travelled the country trying to convince scientists that aliens exist, we know that aliens have supplanted religion as a means of belief (control), we know what benefits there are from making people believe in aliens, we know that the US tested '___' and brainwashing techniques on its own citizens (including on CIA agents!), we know that alien books and movies are a huge business, we know that people see a light in the sky and jump to conclusions, we know that minds associate new data with whatever they already believe in, and this is easily capitalised on... When you understand psychology, you can control people, and control/order is the point of a government in the first place.

Sigh... you're right about the headaches

I forgot to add: if aliens exist the way its claimed, and the government was desperately trying to cover it up, why WOULDNT they showcase some top secret planes and ease everyone's minds? They could even release some phony triangular craft that doesnt fly, to throw off other nations who want to copy their top technology!

If they wanted to conceal aliens, they also have the power to 'disappear' whistleblowers at will. Remember even in Stalin's time they could disappear people who dissented.

The names in that article...those folks are collectively known as "The Aviary" (because prior to being outed, they appeared in UFO circles with codenames like "Falcon" or "Condor", etc. Google it, for some real eye openers. Whether complete disinfo, or a mix of fact and fiction, most UFOlogists pretty much assume anything from such sources are bogus right out of the gate....and with good reason.

a reply to: Ridhya

The real question is, if ET aliens are here, then why are THEY covering themselves up?

I don't like it, but I have to believe in rationality over magic. Odds are: no ET coming here.

The "psychological warfare" to have people think "ET! ET!" has practical operational benefits: cognitive stealth.

How about producing undisclosed aircraft which have unusual characteristics and then intentionally adding bizzarre 'showtime' to them to do tricks and operations/training which don't seem consistent with a military or intelligence aircraft?

Make people think that Space Brothers are up there, so some angry bearded dude with MANPAD also looks up in wonder instead of locking on to a much-more-vulnerable-to-enemy-fire-than-an-Imperial-Star-Destroyer stealth triangular dirigble working intelligence or cargo for special forces.

originally posted by: Ridhya
a reply to: MoonMystic

Likewise. I wasn't going to respond, cause some of the things I wanted to say are a little off topic, but ... I couldn't help myself.

For me it hasn't led to to a complete turn around of beliefs, it has just helped me to keep things in perspective. I haven't done much research into psychological warfare, other than reading articles and watching videos about how TPTB use media, religion, commercialism etc to control our minds and keep us obsessing over trivial things.

But I know what it is like to be psychologically manipulated. Even if not deliberately. I grew up in a strict religion. And in my very late teens me and my family left because my father especially could see the corruption within our own church. We were then ostracized by all the people we had thought were friends, and finally even our extended family ostracized us. Thank god we at least had each. After years of research it has become more apparent that this behaviour is encouraged within these religions, to manipulate its members to come back, sit down, shut up and take the good medicine of the church!

After we left I felt so exposed and vulnerable. I'd always wondered even within the religion whether it was all true, but, I thought that I was at least sure there was a god who cared. After, that all changed and I hit a terrible depression. It was not too long after that when I was laying down in my backyard, looking up in the sky, pondering god and all that, too angry to approach deity in prayer, that I saw this brilliant UFO. It was like a star only brighter than the others. Just sitting there. In fact I thought it was just a star, until it moved, so fast across my field of vision. And I got up, ran out across the road to follow it, and it stopped again, once more just looking like a star. Then after a couple of minutes it disappeared instantly. Just Poof! Gone. Pretty much that night I really took to researching about it.

I did read the abductions cases and all that stuff about the greys but what really got hooks into me was that New Age inter-dimensional stuff.

I ended up attending a seminar where people claimed they had channeled these "light beings" and the "ascended masters." And I have always considered myself a bit of a whimsical thinker, but honestly, I had never felt so perfectly sane in my life as I did at the seminar, listening to some of the talks given. I realized then that I had been nearly sucked into another "cult."

Easy to happen to people like me, who, for our whole life have been brainwashed to believe something "higher" than us wants to step in and save us. There are sooo many things out there waiting to distract people though, and the alien following is just another needle in haystack. Compare that to all the "grounded" people distracted by the political charades etc.

Thankfully, the rational part of my mind won in the end. Because the more I delved into the real issues about our planet I could see how unlikely it all was. All this corruption, and the killing. The extensive damage to our environment. I read recently in an article that the Fukushima incident is doing a lot more damage than what the media would have us believe. The bees and other creatures vital to the ecosystem are dying off ... if there ever was going to be higher beings set on saving us, it should have been yesterday! But no, in reality, why should any higher being have to clean up our mess when we (as a whole) ignore most of it?

Consider that the Nazis invented the stealth bomber in the 40s

I'll have to look more into this as I'm not really sure what they had back then. I suppose there was the Philadelphia experiment, which by many accounts was meddling with some high tech stuff ... meddling with time even. Not a verified thing either though, apparently. That's interesting though cause when you consider our fast advancements why not another race? ;P

But regardless... psychology and archaeology explain everything that ancient aliens believes claim. For aliens to exist... it requires so much assumption.

I often feel the same way about science nowadays though. I respect science a lot, but I'm not really sure where a legitimate scientific source ends sometimes and where it begins. And even if you look deeper into the so called science our current belief structure is built around, it would seem even that much of it is still theory based. We've established many things through science. But it has kinda gotten to the point where so called scientific research is thrown around all over the place, when really it's just new hypothesis and such based on a few tests and experiments, that get treated by some as gospel and then called pseudo science by the science fanatics.

They say we are only perceiving a small percentage of our reality with our sensory perceptions! When you consider that, does it seem so unlikely that our universe is governed by some sort of code that is not necessarily linked to a god or anything, but is a ... like ... a blueprint for how the universe functions and operates? Thinking about that makes me feel ETs really might not be that far fetched, if there is maybe a consistent system to evolution. I've done some reading recently about how everything could be all linked together in a web of synchronicity. But I'm no scientist so don't tear me apart on that one. : P

Somewhere I have read, (I'm terrible with remembering sources and have a million bookmarks I need to sought through) that if you have a spaceship that can travel into deep space, you also have a time machine. For myself personally, I think that any potential race that reaches us from great distance has surpassed the kind of space travel we imagine in our stories and movies. Maybe they as a race have even been able to breach past the sensory perceptions of our known existence and access more knowledge. But then you'd wonder if they'd even need ships. Unless, there is ET closer to home than we think. All speculation of course.

As for why wouldn't the Gov release their own craft footage to cover up ET presence, well, cause maybe at the end of the day, regardless of whether or not they are trying to conceal something ET, they still don't want us having any information on their own crafts whatsoever. And from what I have read, a lot of people have mysteriously died who were suspected of trying to release things. Maybe the ones that slipped through are willing to tell it in such a way the "gov" (loose wording) approves of cause it adds to the confusion lol. A lot of people also get quickly discredited before they get a foot in the door.

Why would ET show up but not reveal them self to the rest of humanity? I don't know. As to the reports they have showed up to some people and not others, I don't know. Whether or not aliens actually exist I'm like you, I don't know.I just believe in the possibilities, (as I've said several times already and you must be getting bored lol) and have come to think at this stage that we are barely seeing the tip of the "truth" iceberg.

a reply to: Gazrok

Interesting! I will definitely copy and paste these names and add them to my disorderly bucket list of things to one day research.

originally posted by: Ridhya
a reply to: Bilk22
And I think you're underestimating things, but you havent been on ATS as long so I believe it...

As we speak there are people posting about rocks on Mars they are certain are statues of reptilian heads, and dozens of people are supporting them. There is an unscientific TV show called Ancient Aliens that is the most popular show on the history channel. There are countless movies coming out about alien invasions. There are endless videos on youtube claiming to show aliens but are nothing more than lights in the sky. When the Norway Spiral and the Jerusalem lights happened there was coverage on the news for weeks about aliens, even though there was no evidence of aliens.

Decades ago aliens were a fringe belief, modern day it is the norm. Even the Vatican said its possible. Complete 180?

ATS and UFO sites are a microcosm compared to the actual population on Earth,
If ATS has 1 million members that still leaves seven billion,forty-five million who aren't members.

a reply to: Taggart
I believed in aliens well before I joined ATS, and it was around the time of joining that I found evidence to the opposite.

You're ignoring an awful lot of data.
Half of Americans Believe in Aliens
48% of Americans believe in Aliens
Thats just America. Add the rest of the world, which would be a comparable number.

a reply to: jamdan

thanks for the link
reading it now

a reply to: MoonMystic
There is an old saying in psychological warfare: "When you lose your faith, you dont believe in nothing - you'll believe in anything." It refers to the idea that people who become disillusioned with their strongly-held beliefs are in the most sensitive period to be manipulated.

And it so follows that cults, religions, political parties, and scammers prey on desperate people who are looking for something to believe in, or a sense of purpose.


Your experience is more common than you may think. We often look at people in cults and think they are stupid, or weak-minded, or that there must be something to distinguish them from ourselves... but these groups employ the same recruiting, mental breakdown, reconstruction, brainwashing, loyalty, belief techniques as the highest level organisation...

And luckily you realised that this alien cult was merely a rebranding of religion, a different explanation for the same claims, gaining the same benefits out of manipulating you. A similar thing happened to me. Lucky for me I had already begun on my psychology path and recognised what they were doing.


You're right the Philadelphia Experiment was speculation, but the Nazi stealth bomber was pure fact. National Geographic funded a modern reconstruction that turned out to be capable of changing the war (had it been implemented). And remember that this is one of the top secret projects that we know about...
Hitler's Stealth Fighter
Horton Ho 229

And contrary to what alien theorists think... military technology doesnt go from 0 to 60 instantly. A good example is on the V2 rocket, which had soooo many failures
Nazi Megastructures V2



It is fascinating that we cant perceive certain light wavelengths and there are theories about whether aliens would even be able to see in our way... or whether they might only perceive ultraviolet light or some such. Its possible that an advanced race might have found unfathomable ways to exceed the speed of light or to avoid "travel" altogether... and yes that begs the question why would they need metal spacecraft to begin with... on top of why would they come here, and rape cows. lol.

And your last point is exactly mine... people who sell military blueprints to foreign nationals are convicted of treason. Still punishable by death (look it up!!) Yet former government, air force, police who reveal the supposed biggest, worst kept secret in history, become rich.

There is info in disinfo.
(El) Mirage men like Az and AFB's named after Apostles.

Hi Guys

A great thread by the way OP,it's interesting hearing everybody's thoughts on the subject.

I am also quite wary of taking the ET bait.I believe (like people have mentioned) that deception is rife in this field of study,i personally am thinking along the lines of 'cryptoterrestrials' i also think you can take a small piece of all these 'theories' (as seems to be the case with most so called conspiracies) and maybe then we are encroaching on the truth; that being..

There statistically must be life out there with infinite possibility imo-therefore ETs must exist out there and could *possibly* make up a portion of sightings (and due to what apparently seems to be 'the rules of the universe' they cannot interact?-i personally believe a lot of these sightings are 'Watcher'/Annunaki craft,that have been on this planet for an exceptionally long time (in our perspective) this is where a lot of the evidence points,when you take all subjects into consideration.

As has been said, there is still manipulation/deception...maybe to detract from the possibility that these craft are indeed from this Earth (solar system)-we also need to consider the hallmark evidence in this solar system,on planets,asteroids,comets,moons (yes that includes our own) I also think that there are instances that people may have seen a biological or even an interdimensional entity that is yet understood (with regards to biological entities,you could say rods and these 'things' in the upper atmosphere) could a small percentage be un-manned probes?..possibly..

Also to mention,as for sudden appearances/disappearances (of 'craft') could it be they are dropping in and out of our perceivable optical senses..can they manipulate this holographic reality..

As for black ops?..well i could personally suggest that is a compartmentalized 'civilian front'..and at THE very top of this pyramid in control of this planet..we will find technology way beyond "40 years" i say it could be more like millions of years..(if that is conceivable) what we need to know...is;is the faction in control of our planet at war in space with another faction 'of their own' or even benevolent 'ETs'??..as for the Greys are they really ET as has been made out..or are they another creation of this Earth..

I do think they have pushed the little green man concept a lot,when in actuality 'they' could look quite human like,as again the evidence points towards that with the rh negative blood (to name one example) in members of the populace...red hair for example..was most likely an inherited trait through interbreeding with 'the gods' this is the case in Ireland and Scotland where the 'Tuatha De Danaan' who were the original inhabitants, bred with the Celts..you can trace this back to Atlantis when the Tuatha De Danaan had to emigrate due to the floods..this could make a thread in itself,sorry to ramble,but i feel it's nearer the core of the matter.

I am a believer in Planet X incidently,which is in bound soon,anyway..i know a lot of this topic is linked to the Annunaki as well,so that goes a way to cementing my opinions (plus i have had an astonishing amount of UFO experiences,spookily so)

Here is a great link, that i'm sure will contribute to clearing the waters-it certainly did for me..it is a fairly long read (e papers/book) very encapsulating for the most part,at times it gets heavy,but stick with it til the end,as these were written over the coarse of a few years,so the author refines His beliefs,to go where the evidence points..

Enjoy!

wespenre.com...

a reply to: Buddyman
You need to go and study history instead of alien sites...

Tacitus on red-haired origins in britain.

For knowledge rather than bull# about ancient gods and worldview, read "The Babylonians" by H.W.F. Saggs. They believed that the heavens (sky) was was a solid dome suported by the mountains, and that it was only "19 miles from the moon to pleides". One would think they would understand far better if they had contact with aliens.

Rods have been proven to be insects flying past the camera on numerous occasions, including the tv show Fact or Faked, which is a very pro-alien belief show. Thats not to say there isnt some sort of unidentified animal for some of it, but the evidence shows them to be insects.

You said first you weren't quick to take the et bait and then listed a bunch of ets you wholly believe in.

a reply to: Buddyman

Hey Buddyman, I like to believe in the infinite possibilities too.

I encountered some of Wes penre's material when I first started getting into the "inter-dimensional" stuff, and I came across his theories while I was going through an obsession with the RA Law of one Some of it is very interesting, and you can read it for hours. Even though I now feel a lot more skeptical, I can still occasionally flick back to the RA material and feel it pulling at my heart strings. Some of it was so beautiful, so hopeful. But at the end of the day we don't really know "where" it all really came from. I mean, supposedly they channeled these beings, but who really knows. We have to take it on other peoples word, and in a world with so many lies, I started to feel that just wasn't good enough anymore.

Yes, it can seem like they are presenting evidence and even incorporating science to back up their theories, but this is not so hard to do. Even really good fiction writers can do that. And a lot of the evidence is not necessarily as concrete as they might make out. Go and read all the rebuttals to this material and see all the point of views. Crosscheck to make sure people haven't presented new findings to suggest there is disinfo afoot.

That doesn't necessarily mean that it is all lies. But I think the truth is hard to come by these days. It's like Chinese whispers, one little word gets misconstrued entirely. So many people have taken material and run off with it, putting their own spin on it to make money etc. I don't think that Wes Penre is necessarily deliberately trying to spread disinfo, (he seems like an okay sorta guy) but a lot of people have been fooled, (even really intelligent people). He does have some interesting theories on the nature of the universe and TPTB, (if I remember correctly, it has been a while) but at the end of the day take it all as a grain of salt. We still don't really know what's going on in the shadow world. Other than what manifests into our everyday life. For example, ten years ago many people didn't even believe in a shadow government, but now, with everything that is REALLY happening, more and more people are starting to at least consider the possibility.

So this is why I've chosen to side step what I think aliens might be or if they are doing things behind the scenes in our world; those are just my imaginings based on what I have read, nothing more. I try to keep my mind open, and I wish so much that at least some of it were true, especially the stuff that is hopeful.

Edit to add link to RA. Thought it might help in case nobody here knew what I was talking about lol. (I'm sure most of you do though.)

a reply to: Ridhya

Cool. Thanks for the links. I'll check out the vids at some point lol.