Hackers exposed conversations between Kiev officials - about the downed July 17 Boeing

a reply to: Zaphod58

How does this bullet leave such tiny holes?

You didn't know it's the special magic CIA bullet we gave Ukraine when we gave them special technology that let's the SU 25 fly that high and shoot these magic wonders.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I see we are once again back at the start of the pro Russian cycle. How many times are they going to bring up the same topics that have been debunked many times before.

As with the Russian soldiers with no insignias in crimea being claimed by Putin, there are still people who claim otherwise, even when Putin himself stated they are Russian soldiers.

Now Russia is tempting fate by trying to end a humanitarian convoy into Ukraine in violation of the agreement.

Sounds like pro Russian rebels and putin are getting desperate. Putin needs to go away.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: smurfy

Except Russian built fighters, including Ukrainian ones, use a 30mm gun.

How does this bullet leave such tiny holes?

Yes I know what you are saying. But many of the holes in the cockpit section are also exit holes, and much bigger just to confuse the issue, and there are also shrapnel exit holes and slashes, so I don't think this was something conjured up on the ground in the aftermath. I'm hoping this picture gives a better impression of the cockpit damage, Just maybe any entry bona fide bullet holes in the picture are not so tiny, the exit holes and shrapnel speak for them selves.



Thing is too, if there was a blame on Ukraine apportioning effort on say, the part of the rebels on the wreckage, it makes sense to use the stipulated aircraft ammo.
However, we still await more information, but if it turns out that the plane was shot down by cannon fire alone, there are big repercussions ahead.

a reply to: smurfy

There are things in and around the cockpit that explode though. Oxygen bottles to name one. Those could easily be something in the cockpit being hit by shrapnel from the missile and exploding out from the cockpit through the side of the aircraft.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Not to mention the rebels were recorded taking chainsaws to the cockpit while removing other debris at the scene.. which to my knowledge has never been turned over to investigators.

The evidence against Kiev is certainly piling up more by the day.

My guess is - at this point Both Russia and the United States itself have irrefutable proof that Kiev was directly involved with the shoot down. The United States is not and will not share their proof for obvious political reasons while Russia is most likely blackmailing Kiev with it at this point.

After all, Kiev did allow Russia to send in humanitarian aid after the US said no.

Sadly, the brainwashed 'distinguished' members of ATS will dismiss this all as propaganda.

a reply to: lightedhype

The evidence against Kiev is certainly piling up more by the day.

And exactly what evidence are you talking about, because any evidence that comes from Russia has been proven false, but feel free to enlighten us...please.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I see we are once again back at the start of the pro Russian cycle. How many times are they going to bring up the same topics that have been debunked many times before.

That is because it is all but over for the pro Russians and their supporters. Can't find evidence just make it up seems to be the way now.

a reply to: lightedhype

Sadly, the brainwashed 'distinguished' members of ATS will dismiss this all as propaganda.

Well when the shoe fits.

a reply to: lightedhype

Ditto -

Russian military vehicles enter Ukraine as aid convoy stops short of border

a reply to: lightedhype

The US did share its information. Pro Russians dismissed it as propaganda.

a reply to: Xcathdra

US didn't share anything but their own propaganda.

1. we have proof but we can't show it yet
2. we have proof but yeah, you've guessed it, we can't show it yet
3. here is TEH PROOF! look at those state of the art photos on our twitter! certainly no high school kid was involved in creating those!

to all willing to call me pro russian (i'm from poland, and i just happen to agree with the way putin handles the situation with ukraine, more or less - he at least deserves some respect, imho), i challenge you: show me a proof, backed by experts and independent investigation, that russians shot down that malaysian boeing.

afaik, there is none. kiev started blaiming russia and rebels from day zero (or day -1, according to youtube), there were tons of contradicting reports and blaming each other (the west saying international investigators couldn't get to the crash site right after the crash and that rebels are to blame, right after that said investigators denied such thing - the amount of lies about how rebels acted on site, being spewed by the west - and debunked by independent officials that were on site - shows who's spreading propaganda here), and the whole thing is so far a propaganda war. thas facebook account could have been hacked - just like the account of that rebel posting about a plane being shot down, could have been hacked - or he could get paid by the west. when it comes to such thing as social media, you can never know for sure.

because, lets face it. the west is involved in ukraine, and that is a fact. cia is involved, they were involved from the very beginning, and that is also a fact. this whole mess wouldn't happen without the usa sponsoring it, so when your country throws tons of cash at ukraine to create a mess, then screams that that fascist kiev junta is 'people's will' (how many percent of ukraine citizens really supports them?) and that it is the duty of the west to support them, don't be surprised when people call their 'evidence' a blatant propaganda. with all the money involved and with all the high tech crap they have, they could do better - but they don't even care about properly faking the evidence, because they consider people a bunch of sleeping sheeps that won't care and will believe in any BS thrown at them.

if russians would be to blame, we would see the evidence that cannot be disputed at all a long time ago, because usa has the tech advanced enough that they would have such evidence. instead, all we see is a public drama around social media - it's a show for sheeple, because sheeple use such media, so that's why they're using them as well to spread their fairytales.

the west is doing their worst to demonize russia, but i'm afraid putin's patience isn't infinite. it's interesting to see double standards in action though, not only around the world, but here, on ats. when usa destroyed iraq, libya and other countries, it was all fine. when putin decided to protect russians living in crimea and take back what was russian anyway, he was painted as an aggressor. kiev junta willing to outlaw russian language (they've backed off though), killing civilians, using criminals and fascists (right sector, amongst others) as their military force, is fine, right? but rebels willing to live in peace and with dignity, are terrorists?

'pro russians this, pro russians that' - i'm feeling like i'll vomit every time i see such crap. like the intelligent people with their own opinion have to be putin's lapdogs. i am polish, and as one of our politicians said, i love russia, the more the further it is. so not at all, actually. i'm not biased when it comes to ukrainians either, i even worked with two. one was a great man, intelligent, compassionate, very nice. the other one was a complete asshole, and as it turned out, probably a criminal. i don't even give a damn that they've acted like animals when murdering polish people during the WWII - it is history. it's not history though that the descendants of those murderers are alive and kicking there now, and they are in charge. and the history likes to repeat itself.

usa wants war. lets just admit it and be done with it. your economy is collapsing and you won't survive another year without some huge changes - and because the politicians have no answer to the mess they've created, they want war, because that always works. same goes with eu i guess, but we have far more time than you do until we hit the bottom line. so far you're just pissing off russia and hurting eu - because noone really needs this conflict and all those sanctions, because doing business with russians is good for everyone. of course, unless they want war with russia instead.

and every monkey with half of a brain will see just that. usa wants war and eu wants war. a war with russia. a world war. because if they wouldn't, they wouldn't give a damn about ukraine and they wouldn't throw millions of dollars to overthrow legally elected president by force (they did break the constitution then) and install openly fascist puppet regime. at the beginning, i was thinking they just want to screw ukrainians up and take their money, just like they did in poland - but no. this is far greater than that and constant demonizing of russia in western media only confirms it.

people are waking up though. if you would visit any polish news portal with an online translator, you would see how many people are commenting under every single news article about ukraine and russia, articulating their hatred towards the eu, the usa and our politicians and what they're doing with our country. and they know we're screwed, because when the war comes, russians will hit us first.

so stick your propaganda where you should stick your nose up, usa, because noone here is willing to die because of your lies. and if people will die, you'll earn a neverending hatred from nation that really has a problem to learn how to forgive. we were screwed up by the west already during the last war, we won't just move along this time.

a reply to: jedi_hamster

The US provided information.. It has been rejected.

a reply to: Xcathdra

what information?
what proof?

as good as 'saddam has teh weaponz of mass destruction, we are sure about that'?

everytime your government is wrong (read as: lies), thousands of people die.
this time millions may die, in best case. in worst case, billions.

billions of human beings.

still surprised people don't say 'yummy' and instead shout 'propaganda!' when seeing your government's BS?

a reply to: jedi_hamster

I really don't know how I can make this answer any more simple.

The Us made claims.
The US released evidence supporting those claims.
Certain people opted not to trust the evidence released.

Just because they don't trust the evidence does not make it invalid, as many pro Russians like to point out with evidence released supporting their side.

Evidence has been released.. ignoring it does not make it invalid, again as pro Russians like to state with their info.

Now, are you up to speed or do we need to review this again?

a reply to: Xcathdra

afaik, there is no evidence supporting either of the sides when it comes to the crash of malaysian boeing. as i've said, if you have a link to said evidence released by the usa, post it. lowres images from twitter that even high school kid could fake in half an hour, don't count.

and if such twitter pics are all the mighty usa has got, don't be surprised people don't trust such evidence. because what people around the world can see freely on the internet, is the evidence of your government's lies and the results of those lies. iraq - lies, propaganda, country destroyed, innocents dead. libya - lies, propaganda, country destroyed, innocents dead. that's all A DAMN FACT and you cannot deny it. it was all done to protect your prescious dollar, amongst other things.

and what do we have currently? lies - checked. propaganda - checked. country destroyed - work in progress in ukraine. innocents dead - work in progress in ukraine. surprised people don't want that mayhem getting spilled all over the world just because your government released some crappy evidence?

how many times did your government lie to attack other countries? how many innocent people died because of it? how can you support such actions or still believe them at all?

how can you look in the mirror?

a reply to: jedi_hamster

so your answer is no, you aren't up to speed.

When you get up to speed, and realize you just posted my position, maybe we can move it along.

a reply to: jedi_hamster

I'm from the USA, and I would say you have it correct.
The current illegal regime here in the USA are the most pathetic liars, cowards, and gutter rubbish that they couldn't be trusted with feeding the neighbor's dog.

They have proven over, and over, and over, and over that anything coming from their foul mouths is always lies, and especially the chief liar.

Also, they have also shown far too many times how completely incompetent they are with the most simple of diplomatic issues.
Combine this with a congress and a senate of gibbering idiots and then we see what we have here today..

I wouldn't trust the USA with anything either, not even if my life depended on it..

a reply to: Ploutonas

You would have us believe that the Ukrainian Minister of Defense used FaceBook to communicate to subordinates?







Absurd.

It looks like this story originated on "BeforeItsNews," a site banned from ATS as a source for creating fabricated "news" out of thin air.


Investigating further.