According to the Bible the Egyptians are God's people.

Every religion tries to proclaim that title. The Hebrews did it with the God of Israel, Yah Weh(or Jehovah, I mean he's got 99 names) or watever they call it these days. Just like how the Christians proclaim to spread Jesus gospel, or how the Muslum will have a holy war against Allahs enemies, and dying for it meant one would be with a 1000 virgins in heaven.( I'd kill for that, :p)

Thing is, what is commonly believed about the Pharaoh, the Pharaoh never believed the "Abraham" Religions at all, and was into pagan, as well as believing himself to be a god as well. If I remember the story correctly, he actually tried to dismiss the Hebrew God as a cheap trick. An boy, did he regret it later.

Personally, God has no people, just like how people could have a god. If that made sense.

originally posted by: DarknStormy

originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight


So Pharaoh having sorcerers who could perform illusions and apparent miracles isn't witchcraft or black magic? Sorcery is condemned in the New Testament and this was a common practice in ancient Egypt especially around the time of Moses.

Many priests and preachers performed miracles, invoking the name of God, casting spell in the name of God.
I'm a Christian, but, I know that Christianity unfortunately has a history of manipulating what it is written. Most of the Christians use soft words to describe what God do. Is a matter of semantics. When I pray to God, I'm basically invoking Him. So a man that can heal a sick person, because he is not a Christian he is just a sorcerer? or a witch? Even though is doing goodness?

I started this thread in order to see the many opinions people has about the Bible and Christianity regarding God's people. I'm a Christian as well, Pentecostal, but I have done my own research about Christianity and others religions. So far is quite interesting. Keep them coming. I'll try to reply to as many as I can.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
a reply to: Abednego

I think many are who seek the guidance and spiritual supports of the LORD. When I read religious data like this pointing out specific groups, I try to consider the potential hands of influence that have touched the Great book data who may have had hidden agenda in mind. 1 is not saying this is the case but is something considered...

NAMASTE*******

You are quite right, the Bible has been influenced a lot. Have to remember that in the Nicaea Council they disregarded a lot of theological books regarding Israel. They kept the ones that were more or "less" specific.
I've been studying a bit of ancient Hebrew and when you compare what you read with what has been "officially" translated, is a whole different book.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: Abednego

The religion of Abraham was given to Mankind, not the Jews, not the Egyptians, not the Persians, Mankind as one. No group of people should proclaim superiority over anyone else when it comes to the religion of Abraham or anything after that either.

Even the so-called chosen people throughout the Biblical story are punished when they stray from the path of God and people who are not considered God's people rise above them also when they stray.

At least the religion of Abraham in the OT is only for the people of Israel (not the Jews, the term is a modern day term). If God (in the OT) wanted to blessed all mankind, He would not have chose Abraham. He would have chose everybody.
In the other hand the NT has a completely new approach to God (maybe another God? Just trying to create a debate here).

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
YHVH is the god of the Pharoahs. There is plenty of articles showing that Moses was an Egyptian and not an Israelite.

In response to DarknStormy:

The religion of Abraham was given to Mankind, not the Jews, not the Egyptians, not the Persians, Mankind as one

Nah, Jehovah was a petty local mountain god. Jehovah is not the supreme creator of the Universe. I do not claim superiority over any other person. I am not a chosen person so therefore I cannot be punished if I stray from a petty mountain gods idea what path it wishes any one to follow

peace

There's more to it than just a mountain God. YHVH is the Great Architect of this Universe.

originally posted by: adjensen
a reply to: Abednego

Any opinions on the subject?

According to Acts of the Apostles, it seems evident that Christianity spread from Israel to Egypt and Assyria in the earliest days of the church, so that might be one answer.

Interesting way of thinking. And yes that is one answer.

originally posted by: Abednego
From the book of Isaiah chapter 19:23
23In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrians will come into Egypt and the Egyptians into Assyria, and the Egyptians will worship with the Assyrians. 24In that day Israel will be the third party with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing in the midst of the earth, 25whom the LORD of hosts has blessed, saying, "Blessed is Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance."

Any opinions on the subject?

My first response when people attempt to derive so much meaning from one word or phrase in the Bible is to check the original writing. The book of Isaiah wasn't written in English. Secondly, what about the numerous other places in the Bible where God specifically identifies his people as Israel (not Egypt)?

originally posted by: Specimen
Every religion tries to proclaim that title. The Hebrews did it with the God of Israel, Yah Weh(or Jehovah, I mean he's got 99 names) or watever they call it these days. Just like how the Christians proclaim to spread Jesus gospel, or how the Muslum will have a holy war against Allahs enemies, and dying for it meant one would be with a 1000 virgins in heaven.( I'd kill for that, :p)

Thing is, what is commonly believed about the Pharaoh, the Pharaoh never believed the "Abraham" Religions at all, and was into pagan, as well as believing himself to be a god as well. If I remember the story correctly, he actually tried to dismiss the Hebrew God as a cheap trick. An boy, did he regret it later.

Personally, God has no people, just like how people could have a god. If that made sense.

Every religion is right in their own context. The problem with Christianity (when I say Christianity I'm speaking about the religion that came out of the Nicaea Council) is that it was created not for the goodwill of the people, but for political purposes.

a reply to: Abednego

Abraham isn't just the father of the Jews, why do people believe that? The Jews inherited the Holyland but just as they inherited it, it was also taken away from them at a couple of stages throughout the Biblical timeline.

The question that must be asked is if the Israelites or Jews were God's chosen people, why are they punished constantly throughout the Bible like everyone else is punished if they stray from the path of God? It's because even they must live by righteous conduct just like everyone must. The chosen people are the righteous people and it doesn't matter what tribe, sect or nation you come from.

a reply to: Abednego

It's referring to a future time; a time when the gentiles aren't opposing God anymore. How drastic this change is is shown by the fact that Egypt, one of Israel's arch-foes, finally turns to the Lord, thus making them "God's people".

a reply to: octotom

God apparently established his throne in Persia once also. That must make every Iranian God's chosen people?

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: Abednego

Abraham isn't just the father of the Jews, why do people believe that? The Jews inherited the Holyland but just as they inherited it, it was also taken away from them at a couple of stages throughout the Biblical timeline.

You are right Abraham, He is the father of all the Arabs too. He had 2 sons, one with Hagar and one with Sara. Ishmael and Isaac.

The question that must be asked is if the Israelites or Jews were God's chosen people, why are they punished constantly throughout the Bible like everyone else is punished if they stray from the path of God? It's because even they must live by righteous conduct just like everyone must. The chosen people are the righteous people and it doesn't matter what tribe, sect or nation you come from.

I can't answer you this question, even though I know the answer.

a reply to: Abednego

If you know the answer then please share.. I'm sure it can't be that bad that we cannot discuss your point of view. But here's a clue to one of the answer's.

Lev. 19:26 "`Do not practice divination or sorcery.

Deut. 18:9 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. 13You must be blameless before the LORD your God. 14The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the LORD your God has not permitted you to do so. 15The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.

And further down the track

1Kgs. 11:32 But for the sake of my servant David and the city of Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, he will have one tribe. 33I will do this because they have forsaken me and worshiped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Molech the god of the Ammonites, and have not walked in my ways, nor done what is right in my eyes, nor kept my statutes and laws as David, Solomon's father, did. 34"But I will not take the whole kingdom out of Solomon's hand; I have made him ruler all the days of his life for the sake of David my servant, whom I chose and who observed my commands and statutes.

Solomon was also practicing Black Magic and Witchcraft and what happens after he is finished? Punishment. Just the same as the Egyptians from Moses time.

According to REASON ...ALL of mankind are the creator Gods people (children).If there is a creator God they are the source of EVERYTHING.In the scriptures the nation of "Israel"(not Judah which is one tribe of 12 that became the Southern Kingdom of Judah NOT Israel) is Gods people.Israel is an archetype of ALL mankind.Israel means "struggles with Elohim (the creator God)

There is no "Jew or Gentile"(or any one else) ALL of mankind is one "group" of people" (which is the meaning of the Greek word ekklesia..translated church) ..the children of the creator God.The schisms of people in "religion" claim to be the "righteous" of God..the ONLY chosen people....which they are not.

a reply to: Abednego

Who are the Erev Rav and what kind of work do we do in the world? Israel and Egypt/Tyre/Babylon were not physical places on this earth. These are spiritual kingdoms and many of the old testament scriptures especially those found in the Torah and those written by some of the prophets have nothing whatsoever to do with earthly matters except in the most superficial ways.

If you are a brazen one, you will come to know it. The Danites and the diverse many will rise again someday shortly.

Egypt is where the bible took its gods from. Jesus refers to himself as the Amen. Amen is hebrew but it has its origins from Amun aka Amen the egyptian god. Also jesus fits the story of Osiris, an egyptian god, born of a virgin.

read the whole thing


Isaiah 19 New International Version (NIV)
A Prophecy Against Egypt

19 A prophecy against Egypt:

See, the Lord rides on a swift cloud
and is coming to Egypt.
The idols of Egypt tremble before him,
and the hearts of the Egyptians melt with fear.

2 “I will stir up Egyptian against Egyptian—
brother will fight against brother,
neighbor against neighbor,
city against city,
kingdom against kingdom.
3 The Egyptians will lose heart,
and I will bring their plans to nothing;
they will consult the idols and the spirits of the dead,
the mediums and the spiritists.
4 I will hand the Egyptians over
to the power of a cruel master,
and a fierce king will rule over them,”
declares the Lord, the Lord Almighty.

5 The waters of the river will dry up,
and the riverbed will be parched and dry.
6 The canals will stink;
the streams of Egypt will dwindle and dry up.
The reeds and rushes will wither,
7 also the plants along the Nile,
at the mouth of the river.
Every sown field along the Nile
will become parched, will blow away and be no more.
8 The fishermen will groan and lament,
all who cast hooks into the Nile;
those who throw nets on the water
will pine away.
9 Those who work with combed flax will despair,
the weavers of fine linen will lose hope.
10 The workers in cloth will be dejected,
and all the wage earners will be sick at heart.

11 The officials of Zoan are nothing but fools;
the wise counselors of Pharaoh give senseless advice.
How can you say to Pharaoh,
“I am one of the wise men,
a disciple of the ancient kings”?

12 Where are your wise men now?
Let them show you and make known
what the Lord Almighty
has planned against Egypt.
13 The officials of Zoan have become fools,
the leaders of Memphis are deceived;
the cornerstones of her peoples
have led Egypt astray.
14 The Lord has poured into them
a spirit of dizziness;
they make Egypt stagger in all that she does,
as a drunkard staggers around in his vomit.
15 There is nothing Egypt can do—
head or tail, palm branch or reed.

16 In that day the Egyptians will become weaklings. They will shudder with fear at the uplifted hand that the Lord Almighty raises against them. 17 And the land of Judah will bring terror to the Egyptians; everyone to whom Judah is mentioned will be terrified, because of what the Lord Almighty is planning against them.

18 In that day five cities in Egypt will speak the language of Canaan and swear allegiance to the Lord Almighty. One of them will be called the City of the Sun.[a]

19 In that day there will be an altar to the Lord in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the Lord at its border. 20 It will be a sign and witness to the Lord Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they cry out to the Lord because of their oppressors, he will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them. 21 So the Lord will make himself known to the Egyptians, and in that day they will acknowledge the Lord. They will worship with sacrifices and grain offerings; they will make vows to the Lord and keep them. 22 The Lord will strike Egypt with a plague; he will strike them and heal them. They will turn to the Lord, and he will respond to their pleas and heal them.

23 In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria. The Assyrians will go to Egypt and the Egyptians to Assyria. The Egyptians and Assyrians will worship together. 24 In that day Israel will be the third, along with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing on the earth. 25 The Lord Almighty will bless them, saying, “Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance.”
Footnotes:

Isaiah 19:18 Some manuscripts of the Masoretic Text, Dead Sea Scrolls, Symmachus and Vulgate; most manuscripts of the Masoretic Text City of Destruction
Isaiah 19:24 Or Assyria, whose names will be used in blessings (see Gen. 48:20); or Assyria, who will be seen by others as blessed

Most of the middle East religions are based on the template of Akhenaten's monotheism and are full of references to the ancient mystery cults.

The 'chosen' people are perhaps just a means of saying ''devotees of me will survive''.

ancienthistory.about.com...

Egypt During the New Kingdom, the cult of the sun god Ra became increasingly important until it evolved into the uncompromising monotheism of Pharaoh Akhenaten (Amenhotep IV, 1364-1347 B.C.).

According to the cult, Ra created himself from a primeval mound in the shape of a pyramid and then created all other gods.

Thus, Ra was not only the sun god, he was also the universe, having created himself from himself. Ra was invoked as Aten or the Great Disc that illuminated the world of the living and the dead.

The effect of these doctrines can be seen in the sun worship of Pharaoh Akhenaten, who became an uncompromising monotheist.

Aldred has speculated that monotheism was Akhenaten's own idea, the result of regarding Aten as a self-created heavenly king whose son, the pharaoh, was also unique.

Akhenaten made Aten the supreme state god, symbolized as a rayed disk with each sunbeam ending in a ministering hand.

Other gods were abolished, their images smashed, their names excised, their temples abandoned, and their revenues impounded.

The plural word for god was suppressed.

Sometime in the fifth or sixth year of his reign, Akhenaten moved his capital to a new city called Akhetaten (present-day Tall al Amarinah, also seen as Tell al Amarna). At that time, the pharaoh, previously known as Amenhotep IV, adopted the name Akhenaten. His wife, Queen Nefertiti, shared his beliefs.

www.examiner.com...

An Egyptian pharaoh may have created the Judeo-Christian tradition. Akhenaton attempted a religious revolution in Egypt when he converted to monotheism and tried to take his kingdom along. The evidence to support this thesis is scarce. However, early Judaism does have ties to other Semitic religions and some pottery shards seem to indicate a connection with Akhenaton's favored god, Aten.

Akhenaton abandoned Egyptian polytheism in favor of the sun god Aten. Prior to Akhenaton’s reign, Aten was an obscure sun god that first appeared about five centuries before the pharaoh’s revolution. The pharaoh shifted funds away from other gods to Aten. Additionally, he disbanded religious organizations directed toward other gods. He began a colossal building program to promote Aten and moved the capital to escape the priest’s influence as well as break with the past. Priests panicked over the change fearing that angry gods would rein chaos upon Egypt and the universe might implode. Upon his death, the priests reasserted themselves and the Egyptian pantheon reemerged.

Akhenaton died around 1334 B.C. and Judaism appears in the archaeological record a couple centuries later. There is very scant evidence for the religion prior to the 11th century B.C. However, it evolved out of ancient Semitic polytheistic religions. Somewhere along the line, the Jews abandoned polytheism and became monotheists. It is possible this split occurred at Akhenaton’s behest.

The pharaoh began his big push in the fifth year of his reign. With little evidence for Judaism prior to the 11th century B.C., it is entirely possible that Akhenaton’s efforts trickled down to a small sect of Semites who became Judaism’s forefathers. Under this theory, the early Jews worshiped Aten the sun god, who eventually evolved into the Judeo-Christian and Islamic god.

The evidence to support this theory is scant, but not non-existent. The major link between Atenism and Judaism comes from archeology. Researchers discovered some ancient Jewish pottery with symbols similar to Aten. This symbol may have represented the early Israelite kingdom. However, this is the only evidence to support Akhenaton as the founding father of the world’s three major religions. It will be difficult to find more direct evidence because of the great span of time and the Palestinians destroy Jewish artifacts hoping to de-legitimize modern Israel. Of course, if Allah were Aten, the Palestinians would want to destroy that evidence as well.

Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaton attempted to transform Egypt into a monotheistic society. He failed, but may have influenced a small number of Semitic subjects to adopt Aten as their one and only god. These people might have been the founders of Judaism. There is very little evidence to support this theory, but there is also little to refute it. Until more evidence is discovered one way or another, the true origins of the Judeo-Christian tradition will remain shrouded.　

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Abednego
It's intended as a description of what God will bring about in the future
The original meaning of "God's people" is Israel.
In Isaiah's time, which is the "now" of this verse, Egypt and Assyria were the two great hostile powers in relation to each other and over against Israel.
Between them, they represent the Gentile world.
This verse says that God will bring them both in (not just Egypt, but Assyria as well), so that they help to form part of God's people.
I suggest that this is fulfilled in the New Testament onwards, when Gentiles in general are brought in to form part of God's people.
So, yes, Egypt can be "God's people", that is one of the elements in God's people, but only to the extent that they have a relationship with God.

true, and in the end they will be linked in a bond of fellowship by allegiance to the God of Israel

Isaiah 25


You have made the city a heap of rubble,
the fortified town a ruin,
the foreigners’ stronghold a city no more;
it will never be rebuilt.
Therefore strong peoples will honor you;
cities of ruthless nations will revere you.

You have been a refuge for the poor,
a refuge for the needy in their distress,
a shelter from the storm