Suicides will soar. Here's why!

a reply to: BlackManINC

Gods love is not unconditional. His ways and thoughts are not the same as the corrupt ways and thoughts of man. You commit a crime, expect consequences.

So God is not capable as loving you as much as your parent is?

a reply to: butcherguy

I`ve seen parents who show no love at all for their children, who aren`t even worthy of being called parents. This isn`t about what God is capable of, this is a strawman argument. This is about what Gods word does and does not say.

originally posted by: BlackManINC
a reply to: butcherguy

I`ve seen parents who show no love at all for their children, who aren`t even worthy of being called parents. This isn`t about what God is capable of, this is a strawman argument. This is about what Gods word does and does not say.

Would your mother torture you to death for denying her?

Yet God would? He must love the heck out of us, made in his image.

This thread makes me feel there is no hope for humanity-- the whole darn thread

a reply to: butcherguy

The first people to ever deny God was Adam and Eve. Eden was the place where doubt, where denial of God and his word started in the first place. What follows denial is disobedience, then sin, which leads to death. This is also what happens in Revelation. After 1,000 years, where everyone can see God sitting right in front of there faces, Satan is let loose, puts doubt in the minds of the world and somehow convinces the world to unite in an attempt to overtake Gods holy city. And it all started with nothing but Satan whispering doubt in peoples ear. It is quite clear that doubt can be very detrimental to your salvation.

a reply to: BlackManINC
Saint Peter denied God and became 'The Rock' upon which the Church stands.
I guess he will be tortured in hell for eternity?

a reply to: butcherguy

And your point is? You just stated exactly why he isn`t in hell. He confessed his love for the Lord three times and was forgiven. Paul was even worse than Peter. He killed numerous Christians before he became a disciple.

originally posted by: BlackManINC

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic

originally posted by: BlackManINC
a reply to: ImDaMan

You seem to think good works alone is whats going to bring a man salvation. The works of man are as filthy rags to God, and that`s scripture. You could be the biggest philanthropist in the world and be the biggest devil in disguise. The facade that Mr. Smiley face Robin Williams put on won`t mean a thing to God. I`m sure he had plenty of skeletons in his closet that no amount of good works can excuse.

Everyone has skeletons in their closet. So if you go by that logic, God isn't saving anyone. But that's not what the bible says.

Yes, this is why the Bible states that to be saved you first have to confess that Jesus is God who came in the flesh to bring salvation who created the heavens and the earth. Admit that you are a scum bag in Gods eyes, that you have sinned and was born in it. Admit that no amount of "good works", or smiley faced stand up comedy can please God and you will be saved.

Oh boy. Can you imagine all of the priests who molested little boys, murderers, domestic abusers and the like in heaven just because they appologized to Jesus for their sins? Not a place I want to be.
Sorry, but I am a good person. Good people make mistakes. I will be judged on how my life affected others, and who great of a person I am to myself and to others. If I don't make it into Heaven because I don't appologize for something I did 20 years ago, but a child molester gets into heaven because he appologized, Heaven is not a place I want to be.

Wonderful. This thread on an actual potential issue is being turned into an arguing about the bible fest.

In an attempt to try to restore it to its original topic, I'm going to throw a few links into the fray because I think rising suicide rates are a rather important issue. Maybe it's because a friend of mine attempted suicide last week and I had to talk another friend back from suicidal thoughts just last night while yet another friend had the same thing occur with someone completely different within the same week. Kind of weird.


So rising suicide rates. Robin Williams was actually part of the fast growing group for suicide risk as a 60 something year old male. The suicide rates for this particular group have raised by 50% over about a decade.

Insert article from the Wall Street Journal discussing this trend:

Robin Williams' Age Group at Heightened Suicide Risk

In fact, suicides have been growing at an increased rate for the last few years. Here's what it looks like graphically, courtesy of the Wall Street Journal article above.



As one can see very plainly from the graph, the specific group that Robin Williams was in--male age 55-64--is indeed having a worrying trend. One of the things that has been suggested for this increase is loss of income or additional economic pressures post Financial Crisis. Considering that Williams both came from a wealthy family as an only child, tended towards practicality, and had his own successful career, it's rather unlikely that economic pressure led him to make the choice he did. Likewise, Martin Manley, also yet another man in his 60's, committed suicide last August and left a website behind discussing his choices. Personal economics wasn't part of the equation there either and Manley's decision was more akin to what one would see in the Garrett Hardin Society with a significant federal economic bent. He didn't want to become a part of the federal deficit.

gawker.com...

The reasons for suicide is myriad and oftentimes, very personal. The fact that a single group in the US is increasing their number of suicides at a dramatically higher rate than any other group, however, is disturbing. One could even consider the increase in murder/suicides, particularly in public settings, as being associated with this particular trend. The bulk of suicides are simply removing themselves. A few are going blotto and taking out others with them whether it be strangers, public servants, or their own families.

In terms of suicides by gender, women are more likely to choose softer methods that may increase the likelihood that they survive. Men tend to chose more direct and abrupt methods so male suicides are always going to be higher than female; however, the increased rates do not match at all. Can that significant difference between the two groups simply be that women chose different methods, like my friend who was accidentally discovered last week, and that when matched with female suicide attempts, the increasing trends would be more equal?

Let's see. According to this article, suicide attempts by women increased by...56 to 67% depending on drugs overdosed on around this same period as the 50% increase of suicides for men aged 55-64. That's significant.

abcnews.go.com...

More and more people are trying to kill themselves and some, mostly men, are succeeding. That is not a good reflection on the state of things. One of the interesting points of the above article on female suicide attempts was that women on benzodiazepines had an increase of 67% versus a 56% increase found in women on other anxiety meds and drugs for insomnia. All the talk about psychiatric drugs and their potential nefarious effects on this forum but golly, this isn't being talked about on a thread discussing possible soaring suicide here. What gives?

Discussing the bible must be really important instead of a possible sign of societal decay and increasing hopelessness. In this context, having an icon most commonly associated with kindness and laughter kill himself is really not good.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

I don't know about all the rest of the population committing suicide, but Robin Williams had a problem with depression for many years, by all accounts - maybe even since he was a kid. He just happened to live through it until now.

Did your friend have a lifelong problem, or was it fairly recent?

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a reply to: ImDaMan

What? a demonic spirit? really?.
I really hope you never meet a depressed person and tell them this.
Depression is a illness nothing more and for you to say it is demonic is shameful towards the people whom suffer everyday with this illness. You are adding to the stigma against mental illness.
FM it is like some people live in the 1800's.

Back to the OP I think his death will act like a wake up call for people with loved ones whom suffer from depression, I think and hope people will be able to spot and help others with it better because the illness is being talked about.
I think his death will save lives.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: WhiteAlice

I don't know about all the rest of the population committing suicide, but Robin Williams had a problem with depression for many years, by all accounts - maybe even since he was a kid. He just happened to live through it until now.

Did your friend have a lifelong problem, or was it fairly recent?

She's suffered from depression for a couple years now and struggled with suicidal ideation. Previously, when she's gone on a downward slump, it's been due to a break up every single time. However, when she was talking with me last night, she simply said that she just absolutely lost it and did it. The things that she was talking about were not directly personal. Instead, she talked of governmental corruption, media corruption, ebola fears, and a general sense that the world was deteriorating fast. Hence why I am bringing up whether the spike in suicides and suicide attempts are related to a perception of total decay as it was anomalous in compared to her previous downward slumps (which did not result in a suicide attempt either).

According to the CDC, about 10% of the population suffers from depression. To put that into a numeric perspective, that would be around 32 million Americans experiencing depression. Only a very small portion of those people actually commit suicide. In 2010, 38,364 people committed suicide so we're looking at less than 1% of all depressed people committing suicide in that year. Yet, we have significant and increasing trends of people simply just giving up and opting to opt out in an ailment whose end result is obviously not always suicide.

www.cdc.gov...

According to the Who, suicide rates from between 1950 and 2005, have been fairly stable. The slight uptick in suicides towards the end is largely due to that increase in Baby Boomer suicides and predominately male Baby Boomers.

www.who.int...

If suicide rates have been relatively stable over time, then what gives with the spikes? According to an older overview of suicide, the last spike was during the Great Depression. This is most likely one of the most common stated reasons has been "economic downturn" for the Boomer spike but the uptick precedes the Financial Crisis of 2007/8.

Page 11: www.cdc.gov...

Between this and my friend's sense of "the world going to hell", I'm wondering if it's in part economics because let's face it, life is getting harder for many and also in part of general worldview tipping those who struggle with depression right over that edge.

Hope that makes sense.

a reply to: ImDaMan

Definition "Selfishness : concern with one's own interests"

There's reasons why I omit "selfish" from my vocabulary, because selfishness lies the innerworkings of human life, and without, where are your dreams. A child is also the conception of selfishness, pure good, but only to learn habitual selfishness from the parents. Call Robins right to self terminate selfish, but don't act like you've never been. Take as long as you need to look at that.

As for suicide being cowardly, you wouldn't ever begin to fathom a greater fear, hells at the bottom of that scale. I'll let you in on what it's like to take a step in that direction because I was there not too long ago. The climax after all those years was there and I was at the peak, I had already consumed a lot of alcohol. It only took one more event to trigger me and I broke. At that point, everything is a hole in your mind, nothing and nobody matters and you're already too far out there. You don't feel it, you have no second thoughts, you don't even have a first, you just "do". No notes. No reasons. You act, naught once will you think about what becomes of you afterwards, and at that point it's either you die, or you luck out. I took way more than a recommended dosage of what I could find, slumped down into a chair and never had a thought, my eyesight was the first to go and there follows other senses, and my hearing was the last, but it faded and then, "nothing". Then, I guess I got lucky and the lights just came back on in my head hours later, everything inside was sore, my head pounded. I didn't know much of what I had done, but all I can say is when you go, you have no idea you're actually gone. In nothing, you feel nothing, but a superior rest like you'll never get. And yet, you my friend, will never the slightest clue on how it is. Suppose id have to skip out on telling you how many times my buddy died from freon huffing, you haven't a Damn clue still

Robin reached the point where he broke, and he left without a thought in his mind, no note, no bye, nothing. He hardly felt the lack of oxygen going to his brain compared to some others whom haven't been devoured by the ghost. Its all numbed out and ignored, because to face that beast you must not be cowardly.

If anything, I appreciate everything more than I used to after Robin passed, so we should all take something from this but accept we all still have a choice, but "maybe" one opportunity to experience the weather our lives have to offer us. He deserves his rest, and I'll definitely miss the laughs and light robin brought to us.

According to his wife, Robin Williams was in the early stages of Parkinsons. On top of battling depression and other illnesses for so long, this was probably just too much for him, and he chose to go out on his terms instead of waiting and slowly wasting away over years.

www.cnn.com...

originally posted by: Zaphod58
According to his wife, Robin Williams was in the early stages of Parkinsons. On top of battling depression and other illnesses for so long, this was probably just too much for him, and he chose to go out on his terms instead of waiting and slowly wasting away over years.

www.cnn.com...

Definitely a lot on his plate, he's a warrior of our time.

Yeah ignorant OP is ignorant.

This is what happens when the bible is the only book you choose to gain information from...

Interesting discussion.

I think it's interesting to ask if suicide is a cowardly action. Hard for me to "judge" it in a particular case, as I know some people have endured things far worse than I ever have. Certainly it doesn't seem like a wise choice.

Here's a very brief article looking at suicide from the perspective of NDE's and other things, similar to Murgatroid's post:

Suicide: a promising remedy, a false hope, a reminder of life’s trials?

It is strange that Robin Williams had a good career, lots of money, children to set an example for, loving fans, lots of opportunities, seemingly good health, and not a lot of warning that this was going to happen.

a reply to: nottwoispeacefan

The key words are SEEMED TO. Not one of my friends or family knew how bad my depression gets until I was getting my wrist stitched up. I seemed to have a decent life too. Had things I wanted, a good job, friends.

None of that matters. When friends invite you to do things, that little voice (yours, not some demon) sits there saying you'll only bore them if you go, or you'll drag them down. When people seem interested in you, or things you have to say, they're just being polite.

After years of thinking things like that it becomes natural and isn't something you can just shake off.

originally posted by: nottwoispeacefan
Interesting discussion.

I think it's interesting to ask if suicide is a cowardly action. Hard for me to "judge" it in a particular case, as I know some people have endured things far worse than I ever have. Certainly it doesn't seem like a wise choice.

Here's a very brief article looking at suicide from the perspective of NDE's and other things, similar to Murgatroid's post:

Suicide: a promising remedy, a false hope, a reminder of life’s trials?

It is strange that Robin Williams had a good career, lots of money, children to set an example for, loving fans, lots of opportunities, seemingly good health, and not a lot of warning that this was going to happen.

Which is why I`m skeptical that he actually killed himself based on what we know about him. To believe what the mainstream media tells you just because they are the "official" news is nothing more than an appeal to authority.