NYC official calls for police body cameras - YES !!

originally posted by: VoidHawk
That idea is not as expensive as it seems!

I was going to say the same - the bandwidth needed is available and cheap, it wouldn't require much either. The Police already have datalinks to their vehicles anyway, so the infrastructure is there.

originally posted by: VoidHawk
As you probably know, in the uk BT's routers offer wifi to anyone within range that has a valid password. With cooperation from BT those routers could accept connection from any policeman within range. From there it could be streamed live to any destination.
BT's routers are so common its difficult to find an area not covered. This is easy to check just by using a mobile phone, switch on the wifi and let it search, its almost certain that bt wifi will be found.

Forget BT - the Police already have their comms largely supplied by (my employer) Vodafone via Airwave Solutions, in fact I sit behind the guy who manages that network - they are bunch of useless old timers who are famous for not being able to deliver on bespoke projects that large customers need, which is why we (Vodafone - formerly C&W - formerly Energis) dominate that market.

So, it could be done and without any major overhauls to existing infrastructure - with the rollout of 4G and our shiny new DWDM network we're building to support it, bandwidth is not an issue. We now have systems that can carry 88 x 40Gb channels on a single fibre pair! (that may not mean much to anyone outside the business, but it's a lot!)

a reply to: stumason

Hi Mr Mason

The BT routers, it was just the first thought that come to mind, its everywhere

How capable are the existing data links in their vehicles? Could they carry three or four cameras all at the same time?

We now have systems that can carry 88 x 40Gb channels on a single fibre pair!

Thats impressive! But we're still stuck with linking the four cops in one car thats just pulled over a dude in the middle of nowhere. would the data link within their car be able to handle the data from four cams?

originally posted by: VoidHawk
Hi Mr Mason

Hey Mr Hawk

originally posted by: VoidHawk
The BT routers, it was just the first thought that come to mind, its everywhere

Yeah, I know - everyone always forgets about the other telco's

originally posted by: VoidHawk
How capable are the existing data links in their vehicles? Could they carry three or four cameras all at the same time?

I am unsure of the specifics - I don't deal directly with Airwave but rather the larger Core links - but it's either GSRM or 3G at the moment. There is already technology out there that can compress CCTV for transmission over GSRM-type bandwidth - such as this

originally posted by: VoidHawk
Thats impressive! But we're still stuck with linking the four cops in one car thats just pulled over a dude in the middle of nowhere. would the data link within their car be able to handle the data from four cams?

4 Cops in a car? Not in the UK! You'd be lucky to have 2 - but yes, in the middle of nowhere it might be an issue, but it can be done over 2G/3G networks so most of the country would be fine.

a reply to: stumason
Thats a neat box of tricks, and works with any data enabled sim!
Give it a year or two and it'll be integrated into smart phones.

a reply to: JohnPhoenix

John...that's the absolutely BEST idea I've heard! Would settle a lot of issues with cause, effect and intent. If cops knew they were being filmed.....

originally posted by: VoidHawk
a reply to: stumason
Thats a neat box of tricks, and works with any data enabled sim!
Give it a year or two and it'll be integrated into smart phones.

I'd be surprised if your smart phone couldn't already stream video over a 3G enabled network! I made a video call to my daughter in France last night over 3G

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: VoidHawk
a reply to: stumason
Thats a neat box of tricks, and works with any data enabled sim!
Give it a year or two and it'll be integrated into smart phones.

I'd be surprised if your smart phone couldn't already stream video over a 3G enabled network! I made a video call to my daughter in France last night over 3G

Most phone cams drop down to low res for video calling (dont they?), that box of tricks compresses HD so that it can be streamed, if bandwidth isn't available is lowers the res. But it was more the compression chip that I was referring to when I said it'd be integrated into phones.

a reply to: VoidHawk

It's more the sheer amount of bandwidth needed for the operation to work. The same reason CCTV cameras are generally bad quality because the bandwidth (for live) or storage space required is unbelievable.

Likewise, a constant (or should I say on-duty in public) live stream would still need to be stored somewhere in some sense and it needs to be continuously 'pumped' through the data network without causing any significant slow-down.

I suspect a live feed of every officer in England at peak time would cripple the existing BT network which is probably fine-tuned to a predicted 'load'.

It's definitely possible, it just requires the large initial funding to set up some high-quality temporary storage servers and an upgrade to the existing data transmission network. I suspect though, in 10-20 years time, such issues would be negligible anyway.

I think it's our best bet to be honest. Internally stored cameras are too easy to work around to avoid exposure of corruption or police unlawfulness.

I think it would be a good idea for each and every police officer to be outfitted with body cameras, however I think it would be appropriate that a civilian run agency be created for the reviewing of the data and all data from this be in an online database that is accessible to the public for review, and that any data in question that "mysteriously disappears" from the database be construed as a guilty verdict against the officer, and that immediate termination be the officers consequence for this missing data.

originally posted by: DazDaKing
a reply to: VoidHawk

It's more the sheer amount of bandwidth needed for the operation to work. The same reason CCTV cameras are generally bad quality because the bandwidth (for live) or storage space required is unbelievable.

Likewise, a constant (or should I say on-duty in public) live stream would still need to be stored somewhere in some sense and it needs to be continuously 'pumped' through the data network without causing any significant slow-down.

I suspect a live feed of every officer in England at peak time would cripple the existing BT network which is probably fine-tuned to a predicted 'load'.

It's definitely possible, it just requires the large initial funding to set up some high-quality temporary storage servers and an upgrade to the existing data transmission network. I suspect though, in 10-20 years time, such issues would be negligible anyway.

I think it's our best bet to be honest. Internally stored cameras are too easy to work around to avoid exposure of corruption or police unlawfulness.

Hi DazDaKing

The sheer volume of data is a problem, and the BT idea was just off the top of my head.
But, as Stumason mentioned (^post above^) there's hardware becoming available thats very good at compressing video, and it works on any data enabled sim card, and pushing it over the mobile network seems more realistic than BT's wifi.

To quote Stumason

So, it could be done and without any major overhauls to existing infrastructure - with the rollout of 4G and our shiny new DWDM network we're building to support it, bandwidth is not an issue. We now have systems that can carry 88 x 40Gb channels on a single fibre pair! (that may not mean much to anyone outside the business, but it's a lot!)

It seems it really would be possible for each and every copper to be wearing a camera

Storage.
I often think about youtube and the incredible amount of storage they must have, along with bandwidth too! But, compared with youtube the police cams needs would be tiny, and they would only have to store data short term unless it got flagged as evidence.

It would pay for itself?
With everything on film court cases and hence costs to the police would be massively reduced.


a reply to: DonVoigt

I think it would be appropriate that a civilian run agency be created for the reviewing of the data

Agreed!

all data from this be in an online database that is accessible to the public for review

Absolutely, though I can see there could be problems with that, people might see things and try to dish out their own justice!.
Most certainly anyone who is being charged or even questioned ought to have free access with the ability to download a copy.

What is it they're always telling us?
"if your doing nothing wrong then you shouldn't mind the cameras"

a reply to: VoidHawk

Hey, just checked out Stumason's reply. Can't believe I missed that.

88 x 40g channels per fibre pair is bloody impressive. I didn't realise currently rolled out tech was achieving that. I lost touch with the general computing market around the time when 6800 GTs were top-range and cost £200 lol.

I guess the question is then, what's the incentive? I guess from the police's aspect, it provides a constant feed to a control team who can externally assess the situation. This would be good, but could still be open to massive corruptness.

It's also quite a different picture when you consider applying this as country-wide standard tech. It is extremely simple and cheap to do across a small local police force.

When it comes to police budgets we have a habit of applying the logic that if you don't truly need it, don't waste money on it, and in that sense there's truly no incentive to do this as a standard for all police officers (live and wireless feed as opposed to internally stored).

Would be great though