Shoot First, Paid Vacation Later

Double standards of justice, collateral damage, innocent lives lost, and maybe a racial component -- this tragic incident is indicative of the paranoid, trigger-happy approach to law enforcement in the modern USA.

It starts with an ignorant jackass, who leaps to conclusions and calls the police about a man brandishing a rifle in an Ohio Wal-Mart. Even though everyone is going about their business in the store and no other alarms have been raised, police apparently never came down from 'CODE RED THREAT LEVEL MAXIMUM ALPHA CENTAURI GO GO GO!'

www.wlac.com...
www.whio.com...
www.daytondailynews.com...

After police skillfully negotiated the situation with cold, efficient, brainless lethality, the suspect lay dying in the middle of Wal-Mart. In addition, the officers' gunshots surprised a female bystander, who suffered a heart attack and died at the scene. At least one child was present to witness the horiffic event.

No mention of the officers involved being under investigation, or even being on leave, which I find appalling. If a CCW permit holder were to be involved in such a dubious shooting in a public place, that person would be given the criminal treatment before the coroner even arrived.

Why isn't it mandatory for police to attempt to shoot knees or hands or something that's not fatal?!

I hope the widow makes a killing. This won't bring her husband back but, she should make enough to shut that city down.

I love the title of the thread, soooo true. Maybe if they stopped getting paid while they were under investigation then they would do more to not be under investigation!
Of course we are going to get the usual well he shouldn't of been holding the air rifle and he should of put it down.
Just a shame that just caused he turned, that he needed to die.
Cops will be 'justified' in this one

a reply to: Fargoth
While some of the clips in that video do infuriate me, I don't want this to turn into a cop-hating thread. I've only ever met one or two, but the good cops out there are worth their weight in gold. The answer to this problem is NOT to hate all LEO's.

In these situations we must demand that their actions are subject to the same scrutiny applied to the average citizen. From the details provided, it is clear to me that this shooting could have been avoided had the officers exercised the level of restraint expected of a citizen legally carrying a gun.

a reply to: Iamthatbish

Cause hands and knees are very low percentage shots, would take a crack shooter to be able to hit those and despite what every cop will tell you, they are not all amazing shooters. And if they miss the hands or knees then they risk hitting a innocent bystander.
So torso shots should be where they shoot, cause that will incapacitate and not kill 100% of the time. I read 2 of the links, and I didn't see the number of shots that were fired, but I am willing to bet it was over 5 to the chest which will be fatal damn near 100% of the time especially when its hollow points entering in ya tearing you up.
I mean even the marines teach a 3 shot failure drill for kills... Not sure why cops who should be shooting to stop should be unloading into people. Unless of course they are just shooting to kill.

a reply to: Iamthatbish
If a police officer draws his firearm, he needs to be prepared to use it. If he is justified in firing the weapon, his only concern should be eliminating the imminent threat the suspect poses to himself and others. In the heat of the moment, it is not reasonable to 'shoot for the legs.'

The problem that we see over and over again is that the courts tend to rule in favor of officers in unnecessary shootings, simply because an officer experienced fear for his life. Young officers see this pattern, and begin to believe that if a situation is frightening, use of lethal force is justified.

DHS supplying and cross-training of local police plays a big role here, too. No doubt when the officers received this call from dispatch, they mentally prepared themselves for a real-life version of their most recent DHS sponsored drill.

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

You demand action meanwhile I'll hate. I'd also like to personally call out the mod that deleted my post to tell me which rule I broke.

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
Why isn't it mandatory for police to attempt to shoot knees or hands or something that's not fatal?!

I'm not attacking you, though I am annoyed. Shooting to wound is next to impossible. A gunshot wound is a traumatic event to the individual being shot and the can still die despite being shot in the arm or leg. There are arteries running through those appendages after all.

Try shooting at a even slightly moving target the size of a hand with a handgun (Hell, try it with a scoped rifle for that matter).

Life is not Hollywood nor a video game.

a reply to: Sremmos80

Amen.

What exactly is the incentive for cops to stop shooting/killing people?

Every time they do it, they're rewarded...

I guess it shouldnt come as a surprise that these incidents are occurring more and more frequently.

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist
The good cops I keep hearing about are not worth a damn thing until they start cleaning their ranks one way or another. I think of cops the same way I think of someone breaking into my house, because it's not safe to assume the cop you are interacting is not a pea-brained roid rager.

originally posted by: Fargoth
a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

You demand action meanwhile I'll hate. I'd also like to personally call out the mod that deleted my post to tell me which rule I broke.

and so you have made yourself apparent...period

at least you're honest -shrugs-

Thing is we hear about these bad cops...and I agree 100% that many of these stories are terrible, brutal and unnecessary...however that does NOT make all cops bad...in fact I would wager only a small percentage are in this category...but then we don't hear the good stories...we only like the bad...which while they SHOULD be reported, should also be shown with the good

I guess we are supposed to believe the good cops are the ones who say "officers acted appropriately."..who are the good cops? probably the real amount of good cops is about the same % of real bad ones..the rest are drones/filler who clearly look the other way. Im sick of this.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Iamthatbish

Cause hands and knees are very low percentage shots, would take a crack shooter to be able to hit those and despite what every cop will tell you, they are not all amazing shooters. And if they miss the hands or knees then they risk hitting a innocent bystander.
So torso shots should be where they shoot, cause that will incapacitate and not kill 100% of the time. I read 2 of the links, and I didn't see the number of shots that were fired, but I am willing to bet it was over 5 to the chest which will be fatal damn near 100% of the time especially when its hollow points entering in ya tearing you up.
I mean even the marines teach a 3 shot failure drill for kills... Not sure why cops who should be shooting to stop should be unloading into people. Unless of course they are just shooting to kill.

They are. In the military you shoot to wound, that way you take not just one guy out of the fight but you also take his buddy out of the fight who now has to care for him. The police are looking to stop the threat, the idea is that weapons are only to be fired in life or death situations, in that case you shoot and you don't stop shooting until the person is down, usually permanently.

a reply to: Aazadan

No the military does teach to shoot to wound and then shoot those that are helping him. Cause believe it or not our own medics will have to help wounded enemy soilders that we find that are hurt. You don't shoot medics.
Military teaches shoot to kill. In the Marines it was 2 to the chest and 1 to the head or pelvic region.
Police should shoot to stop, not to put down permanently cause killing is not due process and that is what they are there for to uphold.
Yes there is circumstances where they don't have a choice but this was not one imo.

c'mon...he was black guy holding a gun...geez, what did he expect.

lesson for black guys...do not ever handle, touch, or be near a gun, talk like white people, dress like white people, and smile, smile, smile.