Bible says Pi is 3? Nah...

2 Chonicles 4:2 Then he made the sea of cast metal. It was round, ten cubits from brim to brim, and five cubits high, and a line of thirty cubits measured its circumference. [ESV]

The above verse has often been used by bible critics to discredit Biblical authority or show how king Solomon, Hiram Abif or the authors of the Bible apparently believed Pi equalled 3. But hold on a second. The text says the molten sea is round, not circular. The verse shows how it's diameter is 10 cubits and that it's circumference-- or rather, perimeter, is 30 cubits.

Since Pi is found by dividing the circumference by the diameter these figures suggest an obvious error in the Bible. But aren't there other things than circles that are round, and is there not even one such round thing in particular associated with the Jews? Indeed there is: 'The Star of David' or in this case, the hexagon, a six-sided polygon.

The perimeter of a polygon is found by using trigonometry:

==> 2nr sin(π/n) -- where n is the number of sides and r is the radius

In this case, we get the following:

==> 2*6*5 sin(π/6) = 30 cubits

Voila! We can thereby assume, or even conclude-- that the molten sea of Solomon's Temple was hexagonal in shape, not circular, which makes sense since the Star of David is so central to Judaism.

Well this is the first I've heard of Pi being biblically debated and or criticized.

How have I missed this in biblical debate? Why does it matter?

I'm Christian btw.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim
There's actually a simpler explanation.
Since this wasn't an engineer's report, nobody thought that exact measurement was necessary.

Fascinating, some things I find most interesting in the Bible are the measurements and the measuring rod,the dimensions of the temples and the specifics of all these things, I believe it is important.

From what I understand the Pyramid of Giza is nearly exact to pi.

According to Wikipedia, the Great Pyramid has a base of 230.4 meters (755.9 feet) and an estimated original height of 146.5 meters (480.6 feet). This also creates a height to base ratio of 0.636, which indicates it is indeed a Golden Triangles, at least to within three significant decimal places of accuracy. If the base is indeed exactly 230.4 meters then a perfect golden ratio would have a height of 146.5367. This varies from the estimated actual dimensions of the Great Pyramid by only 0.0367 meters (1.4 inches) or 0.025%, which could be just a measurement or rounding difference.

A pyramid based on golden triangle would have other interesting properties. The surface area of the four sides would be a golden ratio of the surface area of the base. The area of each trianglular side is the base x height / 2, or 2 x Φ/2 or Φ. The surface area of the base is 2 x 2, or 4. So four sides is 4 x Φ / 4, or Φ for the ratio of sides to

www.goldennumber.net...

untill about 400 ad plus.
they thought PI was 3.
it took them some time to get to 3.1 !

also the use of 0 zero did not start till about then to.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Cool! I had to check that out, but yeah, makes sense. I love things like that.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Measures is everything in regards to the temple. Also, remember that this was cast, and with such a massive size, it most likely was cast in several pieces and assembled. With a hexagonal shape this would be a walk in the park compared to that of casting a circular one. Then again, I'm not a metal worker, but given it's dimensions it would weigh several tons and would be extremely difficult to design, cast and assemble had it been circular, and a near impossible feat if it was cast in one piece.

Another hint to a hexagonal shape is found further down the page:

2 Chronicles 4:5 […] And its brim was made like the brim of a cup, like the flower of a lily. [ESV]

Now, the flower of a lily always has six petals ==> en.wikipedia.org...

Very interesting. S&F. But, it's important how you judge the Bible, or any text, ancient or modern. One thing the Bible is not is a science book or math text book. Pi is about 3. That's close enough for most folks. Besides, maybe they measured circumference with a different scale than diameter. How big is a cubit anyway? If you stepped it off you would not get any closer than 3.

Just my opinion.

a reply to: Galileo400

But on the other hand; everything the bible states about science, especially hygiene in regards to the israelites, seems to be spot on. Circumcision on the 8th day for example, and the rules for preserving/dealing with food and illnesses. People often confuse the words of Christian civilization in the middle ages with biblical scripture.

a reply to: Galileo400

Well, these guys were architects who built what was the largest and most extravagant Temple complex that was not a pyramid in it's time. I've always found that explanation you support hard to believe. For the numbers to work, it has to be hexagonal. Besides, the ancients were far more advanced math-wise that most people'd like to believe. Take Euclid's Elements and Euclidean geometry for instance. That is quite heavy stuff, written down aeons ago.

The molten sea was round and was shaped like the flower of a lily and had a perimeter of 30 and a diameter of 10-- now, a six-sided polygon has all that, a circle has none, so it is safe to assume it was shaped as a hexagon.

a reply to: WeZet

Absolutely. The Bible is a great book. It's teachings about life and how to live your life are spot on. It's also a very accurate historical record that has been confirmed time and time again. It's too bad more scholars don't take it seriously. The support for the accuracy of the Bible is orders of magnitude greater than the next most supported ancient text, the Iliad (I think that's the one. Correct me if I'm wrong.) and yet some scholars put more trust the latter than the Bible.

Of course to Christians, the Bible is more than a history and self help book, it's God reveling Himself to us.

5.08320369232:1...the ratio of the speed of light to the speed of fart. I will build a temple as soon as I can get those damn demons to listen when I tell them to move those big stones. They are a stubborn bunch.

originally posted by: buddha
untill about 400 ad plus.
they thought PI was 3.
it took them some time to get to 3.1 !

also the use of 0 zero did not start till about then to.

Plato argued how 22 divided by 7 was not accurate enough. And the Great Pyramid shows the correct Pi to four decimals in it's very physical measures. One simple way to define an accurate pi, is to make a cylinder with diameter let's say 1 cubit, and then roll it let's say 10 rotations over a flat surface. Then, by measuring the distance covered precisely using the same cubit and divide the distance by 10, you get pi quite accurately.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

What the heck is a sea cast of metal??

Well, one bible version says this:

2 Chronicles 4:2Wycliffe Bible (WYC)

2 he made also a molten sea, that is, a great washing vessel for priests,

That just dont sound right.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

It's religion, has nothing to do with facts and logic.

a reply to: mattsawaufo

Below is the geometric figure called 'Solomon's Lily', or as in ESV, 'The Flower of the Lily':



Now, in order to make a hexagon, you would have to draw that figure. Below is a site discribing some aspects with it:

==> sveta-geometrija.com...

a reply to: Galileo400

Exactly. God also reveals and confirms himself to us through the accuracy of what's written in the bible. Back then, they didn't describe things like we do in modern science, but it's not hard to see that what they described is very accurate and matches modern science. They israelites had a culture very similar to other cultures around them, but their laws were greatly different. They said they received them from God. That really makes sense when you look at the specifics in these laws. Now that we can look at it with modern science, and confirm everything, it proves God's omnipotence. Those people couldn't know the detailed function of all these laws for hygiene and measurements, astrology etc. But God knew. It's like he explicitly wanted it to be included. Everything, and not a single world less, so we, today, can prove it to be true by todays knowledge. We van say "Yes. God proves himself through his word. " He is outside of time, without beginning and without end.

People back then couldn't het this specific knowledge by themselves. They don't explain their methods in depth enough for that to be true. They just followed the laws.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The approach got misinterpreted. PI ^ 369 = 2.8074.....almost.

A log is an exponent that is created by taking the inverse of an exponential function. Here's how to think of it. 
You know that 2^2=4 and 2^3=8, but 2^?=7. That question mark is a log. A logarithm is the exponent of 2 that will make it equal 7. 
The definition of a log is: 
a^y=x is the same as log (base a) x=y so 
2^y=7 which means log (base 2) 7=y 
This can be found on a calculator using change of base formula: (log 7)/(log 2)=2.8074 
2^y=7 or 2^(log (base 2) 7)=7 or 2^2.0874=7 

How does this factor?

Well... 3 ^ 369 = ?

Welcome to Tesla's World.

PI is Earth, Earth is 3, 369 makes Earth as it was, or will be...

Wait...what? 369? Impossible!

Or is it?

Magic Constant of 9 x 9.

en.m.wikipedia.org...#/search

365 days in a year. Are we sure it wasn't 369? Yeah, Yeah...a stretch...but only by 4 days.

PI is not equal to 3 now. Was it before, or will it be? The answer is YES.

a reply to: Boscov
Can you get something off the top shelf for me? I can't reach that far....


I'm saying you're overreaching.