What is BRICS and what is its purpose / goals

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: maddy21

India did not support Russia's invasion of Ukraine or its annexation of Crimea. As a matter of fact no BRICS nations voted in support of Russia's actions, including China.

India clearly said the invasion was legitimate , if that is not supporting i don't know what is ...

originally posted by: maddy21

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: maddy21

India did not support Russia's invasion of Ukraine or its annexation of Crimea. As a matter of fact no BRICS nations voted in support of Russia's actions, including China.

India clearly said the invasion was legitimate , if that is not supporting i don't know what is ...

No, they did not. They "clearly" said Russia had legitimate interests in Crimea, NOT that the invasion was legitimate and remained strictly "non-aligned" unless the UN imposed sanctions - as they have always done, they don't take unilateral action.

An RT link - as I know you'll probably dismiss any "Western source"

And an Indian link too

As you can see - in both articles - it is clearly talking about Russian interests being "legitimate" and says sod all about the invasion being legitimate. Nice try at spin, but you'll have to get up pretty early in the morning to make this one fly.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: stumason

The issue with Maddy's position is the over reliance on another nation being able to step in to either import or export items from a lost market and doing so at a moments notice.

The assumption that nations will automatically change their import/export areas assumes the government can dictate terms to the companies. India, Brazil, S. Africa - All nations where a free market style system exists, where demand creates the needs for import or export.

No but the effect of the sanctions will be far lesser than what the west intends to achieve. We already have Poland begging Germany and America for economic assistance.Besides the food import ban will only be beneficial for local Russian industries and the other items like fish and poultry can be replaced from Latin America. Russia really won't be effected much by this except maybe the Ultra Rich Oligarchs wont waste money on cars.

A lesson Russia and China still do not comprehend and is evident in not only the respective countries business/government reliance, but in the central government thinking they can create a market in a foreign country based on the "this is what you are going to do" mentality.

This type of mentality is why I think BRINCS is pretty much doomed. Russia and China are not interested in developing nations and helping them grow. What they are doing is using BRICS in a manner that will allow them to gain control of global economics that prevents equal input from other nations. They can moan and groan all they want over the IMF and the UN, but the fact remains the reason they moan and grown is because they cannot use it to solely benefit themselves without causing a dustup.

These are basically assumptions and not really facts , It is of Russia and China's mutual interest to see countries grow. When the BRICS Bank was developed the Leadership of the bank for first 5 years was given to India. China being the sole biggest contributer could have taken it for herself or Russia could have taken it but they did not. They decided to give it to the smaller developing Nation . This is a rather clear message by Russia and China that they are willing to work with the devolving countries.

As for India all politics are local. They have booted out Americans for their internal reasons, as is their right as a sovereign nation. The fact we recognized their PM and issued a VISA should be a sign that while he may not be liked by some in the US, the US is willing to accept the decision of the Indian people.

They really didn't have any other choice , he was given the biggest election verdict.I mean ,did you know the entire list of people which US banned VISA for instigating communal rights had 1 name , and that of Modi only lol .

India and China will most likely never come to terms over their borders, Tibet or any other issue the 2 are involved in. Since china supports Pakistan over India, especially when it comes to Kashmir, I don't think India is going to wander down this brics road blindly. Also lets not forget China sent in military units into India last year, causing an uproar on both sides.

It is not in India's and China's interest to have a military confrontation . With the Chinese investments coming in and growing mutual cooperation and closely tied economies . IT would be foolish to have a conflict with India especially when they have to worry about NATO .it simply is not in their best interest. Besides India will soon become a permanent member of SCO. With the Billions of Dollars of investment coming in the benefits of working together will outweigh the benefit of having a conflict

timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

Economic stability is one thing... Having to surrender sovereignty to Russia and China to get it is, imo, to high a price.
Not to mention you are taking the largest democracy on the planet and pairing it up with the worlds largest communist government. I think history should be our guide in this one.

That is really not going to happen . India and Russia has had very close ties for generations now and till now this hasn't really been a superior subordinate relationship. As for China , with an Indian govt. with such a powerful mandate it would be impossible to even attempt it. They could do it with the previous govt. as it was very weak and corrupt but not with this one . India only has to worry about China if American and European economic collapses and NATO ceases to exist , that will not happen in the near future ..

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: maddy21

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: maddy21

India did not support Russia's invasion of Ukraine or its annexation of Crimea. As a matter of fact no BRICS nations voted in support of Russia's actions, including China.

India clearly said the invasion was legitimate , if that is not supporting i don't know what is ...

No, they did not. They "clearly" said Russia had legitimate interests in Crimea, NOT that the invasion was legitimate and remained strictly "non-aligned" unless the UN imposed sanctions - as they have always done, they don't take unilateral action.

An RT link - as I know you'll probably dismiss any "Western source"

And an Indian link too

As you can see - in both articles - it is clearly talking about Russian interests being "legitimate" and says sod all about the invasion being legitimate. Nice try at spin, but you'll have to get up pretty early in the morning to make this one fly.

The statement was made after the invasion , so you can look at it which ever way it entertains you. But the very fact India refused to Sanction or Condemn Russia and said their interests in Crimea was legitimate after the invasion( that is if you decide to call it one) says India does not have any problem with the invasion.India or any nation does not need to vote for Russia considering the current structure of the U.N, all they have to do is to abstain from voting.

a reply to: maddy21

Don't try and twist it - you claimed that India said the invasion was legitimate, they did not. They are treading a thin line, trying to remain neutral, so just said "Erm, yeah, well, they do have legitimate interests" without tacitly coming down on either side. You're spinning and doing so very badly at that.

You want to see this as approval for it, when in diplo-speak it is simply saying nothing and trying to please everybody, because India knows it can ill afford to piss anyone off.

a reply to: maddy21
Good insights Maddy, completely agree with your outlook. BRICS counties have too much to loose by engaging in hostiliites, and a hell of a lot to gain by cooperating.

I would like to apologise about earlier in the thread when exageratted about the number of likes received on a post in modis Facebook, I said it was over a million likes in less than 24 hours.... It was about 100,000 likes, not 1,000,000.... Still a big number. India really loves their new PM, there's no doubt about that.

a reply to: maddy21
Good insights Maddy, completely agree with your outlook. BRICS counties have too much to loose by engaging in hostiliites, and a hell of a lot to gain by cooperating.

I would like to apologise about earlier in the thread when exageratted about the number of likes received on a post in modis Facebook, I said it was over a million likes in less than 24 hours.... It was about 100,000 likes, not 1,000,000.... Still a big number. India really loves their new PM, there's no doubt about that.

Energy.India is pitted against china as a drilling and development partner with Vietnam...possibly other S China Sea partners too....
There will be trouble over that later on.....
Chinas got all those people, and Russia has all that empty land next door.....The Chinese are not adverse to helping themselves at times either......
Pollution.....its growing faster than the populations of both China and India.....sooner or later they'll hit the smog ceiling...and when they do itll cost multi billions or more to clean up the mess.....
Chinese and Russian, also Indian products are inferior to western produced goods......the third world may buy them but for how long will they last.....

What is the goal? Hope this video will help a little:

This short Anti-war film has the exact purpose to tell YOU the viewer / citizen to rise and use your strength and wisdom to let the enemies of humanity stop committing atrocities against defenseless people around the world. Since 1945 the United States & NATO have attempted to overthrow more than 50 foreign governments, in the process the US has caused the end of life of several million people, and condemn many millions more to a life of agony and despair...

a reply to: maghun

Does it denounce Russian imperialism too?

a reply to: DJW001

Does it denounce Russian imperialism too?

You know that isn't going to happen.

China troops enter disputed India territory: sources

SRINAGAR: Chinese troops have advanced in recent days into disputed territory claimed by India, echoing a similar incursion last year that raised tensions between the two rival giants, official sources said on Tuesday (Aug 19).

Chinese troops twice crossed over the border into a remote area of the western Himalayas, with some unfurling a banner that read "this is Chinese territory, go back", an official said on condition of anonymity.

Indian border police noticed the troops on Sunday in an unpopulated area of Ladakh during a patrol of the informal border that separates India and China. "It was a temporary peaceful face-off with PLA well inside Indian territory," the official told AFP referring to China's People's Liberation Army.

He said troops returned to India's Burtse area in Ladakh on Monday displaying a banner "understood to be saying 'this is Chinese territory, go back'." Indian army spokesman Colonel S D Goswami declined to confirm if any such incidents had taken place. But the incursions were confirmed by several official sources.

Chinese troops crossed over the border into the same area last April and set up camps, triggering a three-week standoff with Indian soldiers which was only resolved after senior officers from both sides reached an agreement for a joint pullback. That row had threatened to dent improving ties between the two countries which have long been dogged by mutual suspicion - a legacy of a 1962 border war.

click link for more..

yup everything is a-o-k-in BRICS

Vladimir Putin, BRICS Bank and Eclipse of South American Idealism

If recent developments are any indication, South American political elites seem to have jettisoned much of the high minded left idealism of past years in favor of crass economic interests. In a somewhat outlandish turn of events, Brazil has embraced Vladimir Putin, a figure who has desperately sought to end his country's political and diplomatic isolation. Since Russia came to the aid of Ukraine's rebels, the west has imposed stiff sanctions on the Kremlin, and Putin seems keen on consolidating the inchoate BRICS group (which counts Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa as members) as a means of counteracting such pressure.

Far from protesting Russian aggrandizement, Brazil has warmed to Putin and there are even plans afoot to found a so-called BRICS development bank no less. Brazil's courting of Russia is a bad political sign for the future. To be sure, Latin America has its own reasons to oppose U.S.-influenced financial institutions such as the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank. Indeed, loan recipients have long resented the lecturing IMF, which imposes tough reforms in lieu of financial assistance. In light of the region's unfortunate historic experience with such entities, it's politically understandable that many countries would seek to build up their own rival institutions.

Nevertheless, the idea of countering western financial muscle through an alliance with Russia is dubious at best. What is more, there are serious questions about the viability of the new BRICS bank, as well as its commitment to sustainable development. Moreover, by calling for the creation of a BRICS bank, Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff and others seem to be turning their backs on previous and more innovative efforts in Latin America to counteract western-style capitalism.

Bank of the South Imbroglio

Though certainly disappointing, Rousseff's embrace of the BRICS bank and Putin should not come as a great surprise. Though Brazil forms part of the original "Pink Tide" of leftist regimes taking power in the hemisphere, the country has always been most cautious when it came to promoting a truly progressive agenda, and in some cases the South American giant has even watered down such impulses. Take, for example, Brazil's posture towards Venezuelan-inspired Bank of the South, an initiative launched by Venezuela's Hugo Chávez in 2007 to counteract the IMF while fostering regional integration, poverty alleviation and investment.

Publicly, Brazilian President Luiz Inácio "Lula" da Silva of the Workers' Party embraced Venezuela and Bank of the South, but according to confidential U.S. diplomatic cables published by whistle-blowing outfit WikiLeaks, Brazil was skittish about Chávez's rising profile and provocative moves to counter U.S.-influenced institutions. Indeed, according to WikiLeaks cables both Lula and Argentine President-elect Cristina Fernández de Kirchner were circumspect and "Argentine and Brazilian officials are working behind the scenes to moderate Venezuela's influence in the organization of the bank in order to avoid the overt politicization of the Bank's lending policies." Meanwhile, Lula sent diplomats to neighboring Peru in an effort to torpedo Bank of the South and line up regional allies around more conservative lending institutions.

Click link for remainder of article.


A long read but touches on the issues of BRICS internal politics and hitching an economic horse to a country like Russia / China who have imperial ambitions.