The Rockets of Hamas in 2014

a reply to: rockn82

The propellants for the home made Hamas rockets are made from sugar and fertilizer.
The warheads are high explosive.

(Applause)

That's for everyone who has participated on this thread. Can't send ya the real thing en masse like that, but I can sure express the sentiment to matter.



I didn't put this thread together to make a big corner of discussion for myself, although I'm happy to see some discussion come. I sure didn't start it for stars and flags (in fact I'd have some Anti-Flags from the folks so sick of anything Middle East, they could just throw their hands up and scream, I have little doubt).

I threw this together to try and address the problem I was seeing and having myself, actually, in every source on Rocket data either biased to make them look like toys...or biased to make it look like the second coming of hell on a hang glider. Neither is true, of course, but media is little help in confirming that, eh??

So thank you all again and a big round of applause to every one here for making it a serious and non-political discussion vs. the passion heavy 'engagements' so many other threads stand as right this moment.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Thank you, Wrabbitt.
This was very helpful and enlightening. Thanks also for having the insight to realize how needed your research has been regarding this issue.

The idea that someone would actually be sending such large rockets directly towards an active nuclear reactor is very telling and sobering when considering the goal and aims of Hamas.

Is Hamas really interested in victoriously moving into an uninhabitable radioactive wasteland...or is it primarily concerned with spreading indiscriminate death of Jews by any means necessary?

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I think you did an awesome job describing the rockets and their capabilities.
So good in fact I would love to see you or someone(I readily admit I am not good at these types of threads) create a thread on the capabilities of the Iron Dome.
I have the basic understanding of the guidance system, which is selective, letting missiles fired from Hamas fall into harmless areas such as open water, if they are going that direction. Then the system instantaneously chooses the missiles fired by Hamas that will be headed into populated areas, giving them "scores". The higher the score, the higher on the list it goes to be shot down first. Occasion presenting itself though rare, multiple missiles can be taken down with 1 anti-missile. The information I don't have is how many missiles can overwhelm the system at one time. One can assume Hamas hasn't figured this out yet either in the 30 so days, 3000+ so missiles later, they have tried to hit Israel with.
I read somewhere, don't quote me, that there are 3 known batteries of 180 anti-missiles each, but I have also heard this number could be as large as 24 batteries of 180 anti-missiles(many of which are probably on standby), plus endless on site USA missile reserves. That's would be 4,320 anti-missiles! But lets face it even the 180 known anti-missiles are doing the job just fine. They would need everyone in Hamas to fire at the same time to MAYBE get lucky.
Also, the Iron Dome was created just for this type of situation, it was by design. Long range BM's would walk right through this system since they leave the atmosphere and travel at supersonic speeds, but Hamas has no access to this type of technology, so there is no threat of that.
If I'm wrong with any of this, I'm sure I will be corrected, would love to have more accurate information!

a reply to: butcherguy

These rockets are made at home with local resources. Fertilizer, salvaged gunpowder and salvaged TNT is all they have available. Unless you believe that the Israelis are allowing high explosives to be shipped in despite the blockade. I'll concede that some can and is being smuggled in. With that said, warheads of up to 10 Kg and thousands of rockets fired; do you honestly believe that they are smuggling in tens of thousands of pounds of high explosive and not propellant? Under IDF noses?

I'd have to say if they were then, they were being allowed into the Gaza strip. Which of course allows for repercussions and a host of other questions.

I'll put a disclaimer here: Of course, I have been wrong before. I am just drawing off of the knowledge I gained from building/launching rockets while I was in the army. We used PVC and what is now known as tannerite warheads activated by a 20ga shell. We also used fert/sugar propellent packed into pvc with a sheet-steel liner. They were pretty impressive for just some dumb kids at the time but, hey it was harmless fun.

Have a great day.

a reply to: AnteBellum

My understanding based on the limited research I've done regarding Iron Dome's capabilities is that if Israel was ever overwhelmed by hundreds of accurate missiles being fired at once from both sides of their borders, there would be a far greater likelihood of some missiles penetrating and hitting civilian population areas.

a reply to: rockn82
You compared high explosive yield to a mixture of sugar and fertilizer, as if the warheads are loaded with the sugar based mixture. That was what I was I was addressing.
Explosives suitable for warheads can be made at home with ingredients found in hardware stores. You just have to be brave or stupid enough to make them. The ingredients and directions are available in print and of course on the Internet.

originally posted by: TiedDestructor

originally posted by: rockn82
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Lol Wrabbit, I was actually putting together this exact topic because of all the misinformation that is out there regarding these rockets. I swear some people truly think they are some kind of atom bomb. With unlimited range. I'll be sad that you beat me to my first actual thread but I'm happy that there it was at least you that covered it. You did it a bit too well though. I have nothing to really left to add. I'll just say good job and move on.

I may be delusional because it is 4:25 am eastern time here but my take on the ops thread only reinforces what many others, including myself, have concluded...

These aren't your average Bodega bottle rockets as some may claim. This s# takes off limbs and such.

Jmho though.

You're absolutely right these things can take of limbs; and an M80 will readily take off you hand. Think about the comparison in firepower.
Rockets explode at training site

I'm not calling these things fireworks... In fact I have stated the opposite, but people without context tend to think they are much more dangerous than they actually are. This leads them to takes sides without all the information; something I am trying to prevent. I'd rather that people make informed decisions based on knowledge instead of information that is fed to them.
If you read the above link we can garner lots of information from it. First we can see that 3 of these rockets exploded in succession. Then we can see that 26 people were hurt. Then we can approximate the distance by seeing that they were within a 20 meter range. That means that nobody was killed to spite the fact that 3 rockets exploded in the same spot and had people trapped in a 20 meter box.

I am making no excuses for these idiots setting up outside a school, it's just meant to provide context.

a reply to: butcherguy

Heated KNO3, Sugar and water is really that effective for traveling the distances they are trying to achieve? with ANY accuracy what so ever?
I would be afraid the rocket would be too unstable or uncontrollable with such rudimentary materials that kids use for their backyard hobby rockets. On top of the fact they are triggering it to explode with shotgun shells and homemade explosives makes me believe they are really not that bright or something else is at work here.
If I was a commander in some army and faced with launching a war against an infinitely more powerful foe, with these types of rockets or using guerilla/terrorist tactics, I'm sorry the answer would be all but obvious to me.

Thanks Wrabbit2000 for bringing some truth to this subject - I've tried sharing the same info, but it seems to get ignored. I'm sure the visuals help...

originally posted by: gladtobehere
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
These are the rockets that literally do look like BIG bottle rockets or more accurately, the higher end of the Western Amateur model rocket classes. Clubs in some of the Western US deserts launch rockets a couple meters in height at times and they are impressive. I can easily believe they are home made and mass produced in the way the numbers indicate. Nothing to 'em.

Mannn, thats what Ive been saying. Our backyard fireworks put their "rockets" to shame.

Theyre acting as though "Iron Dome" is preventing injuries from these "rocket" attacks.

No one in the media is mentioning the fact that these so called "rockets" didnt do any damage before "Iron Dome"...

Because it's simply not true...

2 Israeli's killed

Many places were hit/damaged and several people were killed. They hit a school, grocery store, apartments, and more.
The reason there were not more casualties is because many people evacuated the south, or at the very least they sent their children up north out of rocket range, and Israel has put a lot of resources into building bomb shelters. My company moved us up to Tel Aviv for several weeks when the rocket fire was at its peak (2008)...

Done get me wrong, if a burnt out firework, I mean "rocket", landed on someone's head, it would probably hurt, maybe even burn a little.

You really have no clue what you are talking about.

A few days ago, this "firework" landed in the town where I work:

a reply to: CommandoJoe

I would love to see all the keyboard warriors of ATS be anywhere near that ''Firework''.

but of course they do no damage.

the info on the first post should make it quite clear to anyone that these things won't just take a limb off they will probably blow you to pieces like the video above, and the smaller ones would still kill you with all the shrapnel they put into it to cause maximum damage.

its easy to talk when you are on the other side of the world.

a reply to: AnteBellum

Iran provided the instructions for the Palestinians to home build the Fajr 3 and Fajr 5 rockets. They are built in Gaza now. Fajr 3 has a range of 25-30 miles.
They are unguided.... Which means they are indiscriminate weapons. The weapons of terrorists often do not discriminate.

a reply to: butcherguy

Indiscriminate, Inaccurate or Ineffectual, either way you want to play it, it says the same thing: Why would they think they could use these against the Iron Dome system to begin with?
It wasn't a mystery Israel had this system in place, they wanted to build it themselves and the US said, "No, it won't work that way, you have to do it like this!" that was also publicized.
What drives a group of people to do something as stupid as this? There are only a couple of answers on the table that fit. And I might add non of them are what any of us want to hear after all these senseless deaths.

originally posted by: AnteBellum
a reply to: butcherguy

Indiscriminate, Inaccurate or Ineffectual, either way you want to play it, it says the same thing: Why would they think they could use these against the Iron Dome system to begin with?
It wasn't a mystery Israel had this system in place, they wanted to build it themselves and the US said, "No, it won't work that way, you have to do it like this!" that was also publicized.
What drives a group of people to do something as stupid as this? There are only a couple of answers on the table that fit. And I might add non of them are what any of us want to hear after all these senseless deaths.

Hamas has proven time and again that they are not rational. When Gilad Shalit was still a prisoner of Hamas, they said they were going to kidnap a female idf soldier so they could make babies, then Hamas would have more hostages to trade... But that aside, these rockets do get past Iron Dome on occasion (As you can see in the video above) and if there wasn't a warning system / shelters, there would be many more casualties.

originally posted by: Vamana
a reply to: CommandoJoe

I would love to see all the keyboard warriors of ATS be anywhere near that ''Firework''.

but of course they do no damage.

the info on the first post should make it quite clear to anyone that these things won't just take a limb off they will probably blow you to pieces like the video above, and the smaller ones would still kill you with all the shrapnel they put into it to cause maximum damage.

its easy to talk when you are on the other side of the world.

Even when shown the truth people will still try to minimize these weapons. I've provided this same information in many threads here, but people keep spreading the same lies...

a reply to: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: gladtobehere
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
These are the rockets that literally do look like BIG bottle rockets or more accurately, the higher end of the Western Amateur model rocket classes. Clubs in some of the Western US deserts launch rockets a couple meters in height at times and they are impressive. I can easily believe they are home made and mass produced in the way the numbers indicate. Nothing to 'em.

Mannn, thats what Ive been saying. Our backyard fireworks put their "rockets" to shame.

Theyre acting as though "Iron Dome" is preventing injuries from these "rocket" attacks.

No one in the media is mentioning the fact that these so called "rockets" didnt do any damage before "Iron Dome"...

Done get me wrong, if a burnt out firework, I mean "rocket", landed on someone's head, it would probably hurt, maybe even burn a little.

That post was just sick.
yes, sick

Not sure what you mean.

Even if you dont agree that these so called "rockets" are upgraded fireworks, one thing is certain, they cause little or no damage, even before "Iron Dome".

Cast Lead, Pillar of Defense and now Protective Edge (with "Iron Dome"); allegedly "thousands of rockets" have been fired yet nothing has been damaged and no one's been hurt?

Bloomberg was just in Tel Aviv promoting their tourism industry, telling us that no one has anything to fear from these "rockets", that their cities are "safer than American cities".

So which is it?

Are the "rockets" super deadly or (as Bloomberg would have us believe), is it like being in San Francisco?

Clearly theres a huge disconnect between israel's claims and reality.

a reply to: gladtobehere

Would the local ordinances in your area allow you to store these rockets on your home?
I doubt it.
But since they are not dangerous in your opinion, would it be ok if someone lobbed some in the general direction of your house?

a reply to: CommandoJoe


Simple bottle rockets, really...



Except, of course, for the ones that aren't.

This is what a barrage of some of the medium-sized Grad's would look like in a city if un-intercepted (from Syria).


I have some 122mm Grad tubes/shrapnel picked up off the tarmac in DaNang. Complete with Cyrillic writing. Wouldn't want to have those bottle rockets dropping in the neighborhood.

originally posted by: gladtobehere
Even if you dont agree that these so called "rockets" are upgraded fireworks, one thing is certain, they cause little or no damage, even before "Iron Dome".

Cast Lead, Pillar of Defense and now Protective Edge (with "Iron Dome"); allegedly "thousands of rockets" have been fired yet nothing has been damaged and no one's been hurt?

???

June 28, 2004 - Mordechai Yosepov, 49, and Afik Zahavi, four, were killed when a Kassam rocket fired by Hamas terrorists in the Gaza Strip struck near a nursery school in the northern Negev town of Sderot.

Sept 29, 2004 - Yuval Abebeh, 4, and Dorit (Masarat) Benisian, 2, both of Sderot, were killed by a Kassam rocket fired from Gaza while playing in the street. Some 20 people were wounded. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Jan 15, 2005 - Ayala-Haya (Ella) Abukasis, 17, of Sderot was mortally wounded when a Qassam rocket landed near her and shrapnel penetrated her cerebellum, leaving her brain dead. She was struck while protecting her younger brother, who was lightly wounded. Kept on life support throughout the week, her parents agreed to stop treatment when doctors told them there was no chance of recovery. She died on January 21.

June 7, 2005 - Three workers were killed and five wounded when a Qassam rocket hit a packing shed in Ganei Tal, in the Gaza Strip, penetrating the building's roof and exploding indoors. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

July 14, 2005 - Dana Galkowicz, 22, of Kibbutz Bror Hayil, was killed by a Kassam rocket fired at Netiv Ha'asara north of the Gaza Strip. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Fatah all claimed responsibility for the attack.

Nov 15, 2006 - Fatima Slutsker, 57, of Sderot, was killed by a Kassam rocket fired into the town by Palestinian terrorists in the Gaza Strip. A barrage of six rockets hit Sderot at about 7 a.m., also seriously wounding a security guard for Defense Minister Amir Peretz.

Nov 21, 2006 - Yaakov Yaakobov, 43, of Sderot, died following a day-long struggle by doctors to save his life, after he was mortally wounded by a Kassam rocket fired in the morning by Palestinian terrorists in the Gaza Strip.

May 21, 2007 - Shirel Friedman, 32, of Sderot was killed when a Kassam rocket scored a direct hit on a car near the town's shopping center.

May 27, 2007 - Oshri Oz, 36, of Hod Hasharon, was killed when a Kassam rocket landed near his car in Sderot. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Feb 27, 2008 - Roni Yihye, 47, of Moshav Bitcha in southern Israel, a student at Sapir College, was killed Wednesday afternoon when a Kassam rocket exploded in a parking lot near the Sderot campus. He died shortly after sustaining massive wounds to his chest. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Dec 27, 2008 - Beber Vaknin, 58, of Netivot was killed when a rocket fired from Gaza hit an apartment building in Netivot.

Dec 29, 2008 - Irit Sheetrit, 39, of Ashdod was killed and several wounded when a Grad rocket exploded in the center of Ashdod. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Mar 18, 2010 - Manee Singmueangphon, a 34-year-old Thai foreign worker was killed when a Kassam rocket hit the hothouse area in Netiv Ha'asara, a moshav in the Ashkelon coastal region, north of the Gaza Strip.

Aug 20, 2011 - Yossi Shushan, 38, of Ofakim was killed in Beersheba when a Grad rocket exploded, suffering a fatal injury to his head.

Aug 22, 2011 - Eliyahu Naim, 79, who sustained serious head injury while running for cover during an Ashkelon rocket attack died at Hadassah Ein Kerem Hospital in Jerusalem on Sept 4, 2011.

Oct 29, 2011 - Moshe Ami, 56, of Ashkelon, was killed when shrapnel from a Grad rocket hit his car.

Nov 21, 2012 - IDF reserve officer Lt. Boris Yarmulnik, 28, of Netanya, mortally wounded by rocket fire on Wednesday, Nov 21, died of his wounds the following day.

Jul 19, 2014 - Ouda Lafi al-Waj, 32, was killed and three members of his family were injured, when a rocket fired from the Gaza Strip struck a small Bedouin settlement near Dimona.


That doesn't include the nearly 2000 wounded or property damage. Not sure what your angle is, other than "yeah, but those people don't count".

a reply to: _Del_

Thank you for the chart!

It seems by looking at that chart a pattern is starting to emerge.
I wonder if you consider on this chart, way farther over to the right, in a year or five from today, what the next set of missiles will start to look like. A BM will put an end to all this debate quite fast, but it's out of their reach as of now!

And don't confuse me with the others, I never said they were using bottle rockets that is ridiculous by any standards. And even then something that small can still kill, just the effective range is less then 0%.
But what they are using is ineffectual and anyone trained in firing those will understand that these won't work against the Iron Dome. Then again, after shooting 3000+ even if they didn't understand, they should by now!