Hamas was created by Israel.

a reply to: sosobad

Really? I thought it was Stan lee ...but anyways you got my point.

A lot of this going around...

The same strategy can be found in other areas, for instance:

The NSA created Edward Snowden.

Eventually there would be a whistle blower, might as well make your own man as a pressure release valve. Eventually you want the data collected from the NSA to be used in American courts, so eventually you have to release how you get your information anyway; and at the same time provide an avenue to discredit the real deal whistle blowers that might come along.

If someone in the NSA, discreetly working a private industry job, at this point came out and said he was an NSA asset all the NSA would have to do is deny that person was ever an asset and is simply delusional. Getting proof of NSA employment might be harder than what a double agent may make it appear. But, if there's one thing that the Snowden case proves in the minds of the American people is that legitimate defectors are recognized and confirmed by their agencies publicly.

Create your own enemy and control your own enemy by being your own enemy; at least on the surface.

Sun Tzu would be proud.

But don't think the Israeli's or American's are the only world players capable of such rouses. The same strategy can be done by other players; the Chinese and North Koreans seem to play similar games.

Speaking of which, the Far East has been quiet. It's about time there's a major skirmish in Asia so we can legitimately call this World War Three already.

originally posted by: Hilux1996
a reply to: abe froman


This is not a War. A War requires 2 sides armed to the teeth.

No it doesn't.

If you're tired of getting your butt kicked quit picking fights.

Both sides are evil but when one side says "Hey guys ,move out,we're gonna bomb here" and the other side says "Stay here and die so your deaths can be part of our PR campaign" it's either a liar or a fool that doesn't recognize the truth.

Israel did not create Hamas, they gave them money decades ago because they had a common enemy.
You guys on both sides just can not help pointing the finger at each other. Maybe neither side deserves peace...

So whats the next BS you're going to come up with? I suppose Israel rigged the Palestinian elections that put Hamas in power too?

a reply to: abe froman


Of course Israel created Hamas. Hamas does what Israel wants it to do. To give Israel the justification to kill more Palestinians. As stated in this article about Anti-Semitism:

Zionist Apartheid Israel’s deliberate long-term policy of periodic military attacks against the largely unarmed Palestinian people — including the current cowardly and barbarous assault which even the Nazis would have struggled to match — has absolutely nothing to do with “self defence” because even the pitiful Hamas rocket attacks are rendered ineffective by Israel’s American taxpayer-funded Iron Dome Missile Shield. The real reason for such attacks is to fulfill Zionist ideology by avoiding any kind of negotiated peace that might forestall the illegal Israeli land grabs and ethnic cleansing required for the creation of a “Greater Israel” devoid of Palestinians. To add insult to injury, these unashamed Zionist savages also have the barefaced audacity to refer to Palestinians as “animals” and to themselves as “God’s Chosen People.” History has repeatedly shown that whenever one ethnic group regards itself as being superior to others — be it a “Master Race” or a “Chosen People” — then after much death and destruction it will eventually perish as was the case with the Third Reich.

Hamas is supporting Israel in it's creation of a 'Greater Israel'.

Anti-Semitism - The Ultimate Zionist Weapon

Puppet On A String: Hamas Dances To Israel’s Tune

Israel’s supposed arch-enemy, the terrorist group Hamas, was founded and funded by Israel’s dominant Likud party and continues to be bankrolled to this day by political bodies pushing a one world government system. This is not my opinion and I am not breaking an exclusive story. It is a documented fact reported on by mainstream news outlets and admitted by respected individuals within the US and Israeli governments and intelligence agencies.

The objectives of Hamas dovetail with those of the Likud, no settlement at all costs. Whenever the prospect of a workable peace settlement between the Israelis and Palestinians arises, Hamas or one of their offshoots blows a bus, restaurant or a hotel to bits. This gives Israel the justification needed to scupper any agreement and further entrench their occupation of disputed lands.

All the outsider sees is carnage, death and a mainstream media that spins the issue so that these atrocities somehow represent the wishes of the Palestinian people. The Globalists have no intention of settling the conflict and will likely use it several years down the line to initiate a near-apocalyptic third world war that will fully ensconce their wicked empire.

Or fires stupid small rockets at the Israeli's. A few people get hurt or killed but that's an acceptable sacrifice to that Israel controls the situation and get's justification to murder more Palestinians!

Israel wanted to radicalize the dispute by molding Hamas into a fundamentalist militant crusade to ape the Khomeini revolution in Iran. So much so that Israel groomed potential Hamas leaders, pressuring Israeli authorities to give them licenses to set up food kitchens, clinics, schools, and day-care centers, to create a governing structure alternative to Arafat’s Fatah. These were known as ‘Village Leagues’ - and provided future Hamas operatives with a political and governmental foothold. This began in 1978 when Prime Minister Menachem Begin, himself a former terrorist leader, approved an application from Sheik Ahmad Yassin to license the Islamic Association, which would later produce a military wing, Hamas, in 1987. The Israeli Likud party propped up Yassin because they both had the same agenda, to destabilize Arafat’s Fatah.

Order Out Of Chaos

Despite the information coming from viable sources in the US and Israeli Intelligence services and from prominent researchers and historians people still believing in the 'Israel is the victim' agenda especially each time it plays the Holocaust card refuse to acknowledge that Hamas is indeed a creation of Israel.

It's too obvious that Hamas sings the Israeli theme and not the Palestinian one. There will never be peace with the Palestinians because the Israeli Zionist Nazi's don't want Peace. They want the Palestinians wiped out. Not just for the take over of the tiny bit of Palestine that is left over but also because of the 1.4 Trillion Cubic Feet of Gas the Palestinians are sitting on in their offshore Gas fields!!

a reply to: Flint2011

IMHO, this is one of the main issues.

Often times, we come to learn about our government's actions through disclosures by people who claim to have knowledge of a situation or event: former analysts, ex-military, intelligence agents etc.

I cant think of a single situation when a government has openly admitted to their wrong doing.

The problem is that most governments operate in secrecy.

So we're left trying to come up with answers based on various sources and what we think makes the most sense...

a reply to: Hilux1996

Lets look at some facts right now...There is a protest taking place in London once again and the vast majority (Jews included) are protesting against the Israeli regime and their murderous actions.

This theme is common across the world which should give people clues as to who the real aggressor is. If Israel was the victim as it makes itself out to be the world would by sympathising (I know I would) but you can only cry wolf for so long.

A common theme I am noticing in these sorts of threads is that Israel is always to blame. Stop and think about that for a second. If situation X occurs, Israel is to blame. If situation Y occurs, Israel is to blame. If situation Z occurs, Israeli is to blame. This universally guarantees that Israel can be blamed for everything and anything no matter how lacking the facts are or how outlandish the claims.

This is an unreasonable and especially unhealthy mindset to maintain.

And when the U.S is getting a lot of bad attention for helping Israel killing innocent people
they blow up the Ebola in News, so the situation in Gaza get's less attention.
Common tactics...

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
A common theme I am noticing in these sorts of threads is that Israel is always to blame. Stop and think about that for a second. If situation X occurs, Israel is to blame. If situation Y occurs, Israel is to blame. If situation Z occurs, Israeli is to blame. This universally guarantees that Israel can be blamed for everything and anything no matter how lacking the facts are or how outlandish the claims.

This is an unreasonable and especially unhealthy mindset to maintain.

Hmmm...an unreasonable and especially unhealthy mindset to maintain is the "Zionist ideology"

Understand that and your "common theme" becomes easy to understand

a reply to: Hilux1996

I am all for what is being said in the videos but when it comes to spouting off about Israel creating Hamas all I hear is regurgitated information with no proof to back it up. I am still look for evidence other than word of mouth. Nobody names who int he Israeli government says Israel created Hamas. It's always hush hush on who told them such a thing. No doubt that Israel used Hamas to it's advantage with regard to the PLO and Arafat but other than that there is no evidence.

a reply to: gladtobehere

I am very aware of what you are saying. But for me it is not evidence until there is something concrete to back it up. It's just hearsay and conjecture until then. I am by no means dismissing the possibility. I just have not yet seen any true evidence that cannot be refuted yet. Maybe someday but until then I call BS.

a reply to: gladtobehere

S&F! There is some really excellent information here from the OP and additional contributors. I was going to take a hard look at this myself because Hamas do appear to be controlled opposition to forward an Israeli agenda, just like Al-CIA-da is controlled opposition. It's the only viable way to control the outcomes in an agenda driven world.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: Flint2011


There's no evidence to say Hamas was not created by Israel!

But it certainly looks like it was. Especially in light of current and past events!

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

I wrote this earlier about ISIS/Snowden Leak:

That is the plan, unfortunately for all of us that get caught in the middle of it.

Social engineering can be used to do so many wonderful things, especially when you have real time game strategist AI watching the field. They have been developing it for 20 years now and it came to be @2009. Someone I know at MIT interned for the program a long time ago, during those college years we all remember and love.
I have a feeling now I answered one of my own questions today. Call it an epiphany, but I think if things don't start to calm down, this is it.
Escalation such as this tends to follows a hyperbolic crescendo once a certain point is reached. The trick is to tweek the system enough to get it to that point, then let go and watch the fireworks!

I don't know if all this ties together but the development of this type of AI coupled with the advancement in processing speed has enabled the CIA or whomever became in control of this, to real time a pyramid with thousands of targets. When a target is eliminated or 'tweeked' the pyramid self adjusts and outcomes can be disseminated by the millions over time. Eventually you can engineer situations by doing counter intuitive measures or even downright absurd things to achieve a common goal.
At the time this was related to chess AI and to glorify this point my friend programed the AI to win a game of chess by trying to loss the maximum amount of pieces and not harming the other player at the same time. As a chess player I was dumbfounded at the genius absurdity the AI would win games. But this was all academic at the time and was vastly underpowered by the 486/Pentium processing speeds(I think that's what we were using anyway).

a reply to: AnteBellum

Have you ever read Isaac Asimov's "Foundation and Empire" series? Psychohistory is where it's at! Is it art mimicking reality or reality mimicking art?

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: Hilux1996
a reply to: Flint2011


There's no evidence to say Hamas was not created by Israel!

But it certainly looks like it was. Especially in light of current and past events!

Since when does lack of proof mean something must be true? How is that objective?

ok.......fine, ill use your logic, you cant prove there isnt a giant invisible man in the sky, so there must be a giant invisible man in the sky.....

Lets see if much of you use this same logic when it comes to other things you DONT agree with...

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Isn't that what religious groups do all the time? lol, sorry I couldn't resist, I have to fill my daily smartass quota!

But I tend to agree, on these subjects I would rather NOT jump to conclusions until the facts are all present.
No matter how damning it looks from one side to the other - 99% will never make 100% and 100% weirds me out!

So we can just speculate for the moment and keep adding pieces to the ever increasing puzzle, which I think a lot of you have done a great job doing. As it stands, I don't think they can deny they funded Hamas at some point, even though they were probably NOT being used THEN in respect to what is happening NOW.

originally posted by: AnteBellum
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Isn't that what religious groups do all the time? lol, sorry I couldn't resist, I have to fill my daily smartass quota!

But I tend to agree, on these subjects I would rather NOT jump to conclusions until the facts are all present.
No matter how damning it looks from one side to the other - 99% will never make 100% and 100% weirds me out!

So we can just speculate for the moment and keep adding pieces to the ever increasing puzzle, which I think a lot of you have done a great job doing. As it stands, I don't think they can deny they funded Hamas at some point, even though they were probably NOT being used THEN in respect to what is happening NOW.

Yeah thats kind of what I was trying to get at ......lol you nailed it

Im not of the opinion that Hamas is created by Israel, however im open to the information that ANYTHING is a possibility .....

I agree we know they did fund Hamas at one point, but in my opinion thats not conclusive evidence that HAMAS is Israeli created......

Stupid? absolutely , but closed book on the deal..........meh not quite yet

This is the very conclusion that I have come to. I kept it to myself for a while because I wasn't sure, but now, I have no doubts that ISIS is US/Israel controlled and so isn't Hamas. They are created boogie men. They are every reason for the terrorist attacks that Israel and the US have been doing. Good thread

Wikileaks cables:

"EARLIER IN THE UPRISING, SOME ISRAELI
OCCUPATION OFFICIALS INDICATED THAT HAMAS SERVED AS A
USEFUL COUNTER TO THE SECULAR ORGANIZATIONS LOYAL TO
THE PLO. A NUMBER OF PALESTINIANS LOYAL TO THE PLO
ALLEGED THAT THE IDF WAS USING HAMAS FOR SUCH A
PURPOSE."

https://__._/plusd/cables/89TELAVIV14032_a.html#efmAqcAue

"HAMAS--RELATIONSHIP WITH ISRAEL
-------------------------------
20. MANY WEST BANKERS BELIEVE THAT ISRAEL
ACTIVELY SUPPORTS HAMAS IN AN EFFORT TO DIVIDE
PALESTINIANS AND WEAKEN THE INTIFADA. THEY
POINT TO THE FACT THAT HAMAS OPERATIVES ACT
BOLDLY IN DISTRIBUTING THEIR LEAFLETS.
SHOPKEEPERS IN JERUSALEM AND NABLUS REPORT THAT,
WHEREAS UNLU LEAFLETS ARE DISTRIBUTED SECRETLY
FOR FEAR OF ISRAELI SECURITY FORCES, HAMAS
OPERATIVES WALK INTO SHOPS AND PRESENT THEIR
LEAFLETS DIRECTLY TO THE OWNERS. MAYOR FREIJ OF
BETHLEHEM CLAIMS THAT MEMBERS OF SOME WELL KNOWN
FAMILIES WHO COLLABORATE WITH ISRAELI OFFICIALS
HAVE BEEN SEEN AMONG HAMAS STREET GANGS IN
BETHLEHEM. FURTHERMORE, DESPITE MASSIVE
ARRESTS--AND THE PUBLIC IDENTITY OF MANY MB
LEADERS--RELATIVELY FEW HAMAS LEADERS HAVE BEEN
DETAINED. IN RECENT WEEKS, FUNDAMENTALIST
LEADERS HAVE GIVEN INTERVIEWS TO ISRAELI
PUBLICATIONS THAT WOULD HAVE LANDED SECULARIST
LEADERS IN DETENTION. WE BELIEVE THAT, WHILE
ISRAELI FORCES MAY BE TURNING A BLIND EYE TO
HAMAS ACTIVITIES, THERE IS INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE
TO CONCLUDE THAT ISRAEL IS PROVIDING ACTIVE
SUPPORT. "

https://__._/plusd/cables/88JERUSALEM3168_a.html#efmDRFDi0