.223 or .308?

Back in my pig popping days and shooting days I had CMMG upper in .22... 7.62x39 upper and also a 5.56. Ended up getting lowers for all and making them a dedicated platform. The 7.62x39 in 154 grain sp will stop just about anything out to about 125 to 150 yards.. After that it is like throwing rocks due to bullet drop. The military is not allowed to use 5.56 hunting rounds and there are some soft point bullets in 5.56 that are incredible as far as wound channel and accuracy. I was always into accuracy when having to shoot feral pigs.. Longest shot I ever took was 327 yards and the Pig was DRT but it was a no wind day and everything else was perfect. In brush where most of the shots would be less than 100 yards the 7.62x39 was a great weapon.. However if the anticipated shots due to open terrain was in excess of 200 yards I always grabbed the 5.56.. Again on a pig you are trying to hit a small area below the ear for a clean kill although a frontal hit between the eyes also works with the proper bullet and range.

Feeding whatever you decide on become problematic due to the cost of ammo.. The good deals just are not so good anymore IMO especially if you are a weekly shooter. If you are just a hunter... most hunters do not expend much ammo unless they are sighting in new optics... Also anything less than 25 yards might be considered defense where anything over 600 yards is normally considered murder or war..

Hard to go wrong with a 308 or 7.62 nato if that is what the mission requires.. However I am more of a thinking mind that if you have a rifle that you shoot and are intently familiar with, you will be much better at hitting stuff than the occasional plinker or dreamer. The Mini 14 used to be not considered accurate due to loose chambering... They might have fixed that now but it was a very unsat weapon for hunting at a range of over NOT TO MUCH !.

Centerfire systems had 1000 rounds of full metal jacket 7.62x39 Russian ammo last month for $199.. did not check today but they may be sold out by now ? It is OK for anti-personnel but sucks for hunting ammo IMO.

The whole reach out and touch something at distance has more to do with the atmospheric conditions; WIND, platform and ammo coupled with shooter and optics than just about anything else. If you do a search on youtube there used to be a guy who was shooting 440 yards and hitting stuff consistently with a .22.. You can hit stuff much farther away but Consistency is the name of the game unless you want your target to know it is being targeted. Also your age and eyes should play into your choice of weapon.. Again that goes back to Optics.... you can spend more for a scope than you did for the new weapon... anyway just some thoughts on my part from my hunting days. No one rifle will do everything so IMO you need to ask yourself what is the intended purpose of your new weapon.. for what, where, and when it will be used for, are the things you honestly need to decide before you make a purchase.. I like a Barrett (.50 cal) as far as reaching out to touch something.. But.... I would hate to have to lug the thing around (heavy) much less buy ammo for it.... also if you are trying to get something to eat there won't be much left after the shot.... Think rabbits and squirrels not elephants...

There is a web sight called THE HIGH ROAD (THR) where some of the biggest and best shooters in the nation gather to talk about different aspects of hunting and calibers dealing with anything you can think of to include SHTF scenarios. Also because many are operators in a serious way you will find out that some of the weapons you might think are great are in actuality a big POS as far as reliability and accuracy. It is a great web sight for learning and reading about such things... again just my humble opinion..

a reply to: smithjustinb

You've already had 5000 opinions here. So why not 5001?

If you are talking about a gun, and you are concerned about something reliable when parts or ammo are hard to come by, keep it simple. A lot of modern firearms shoot very well. Heck, off the shelf hunting rifles are amazing now-a-days.

If you are talking caliber, personally if I had a choice in in 22cal I would go 22-250. My choice in 30cal? I go old school with 30-06 as there a million reload recipes out there for it. 100g up to 220g.

One day I would like to own a bolt action in 243/6mm. Sort of the best of both worlds. Super flat shooter and still has energy for solid terminal ballistics. Plus a bolt action is uber reliable.

Either caliber will work. Whatever you can find cheapest and find plentiful mags for. Also weight is a factor. You can carry many more .223 than .308. weight wise. If you know how to shoot than any caliber will work as long as you place the round where it should go.
Firepiston

a reply to: smithjustinb

Dude, the .223 is similar to the 5.56. Ask anybody who fought in iraq/afghanistan if it is an effective round. You can kill with a .22, a .223 is more than enough. Now if you wanna be able to drop somebody from farther away (800+ yards) then a .308 is where you probably need to be. However at that range you have to ask yourself if you have the skill to make the shot and if you would be better off having a reliable 5.56/.223 (or 7.62x39) for short range and a .308 with a scope for longer range.

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow
I actually got mine for 29 bucks plus fees!
They were so cheap I marched my dad up and bought him one as well.
We had 2 MAJOR competitors in Sacramento back when and they did the 10 dollars cheaper dance every week.
It hit 29 and I figured that was rock bottom, I might have been right.

I love .308 but its heavy and at least around me bloody expensive...

5.56, or .223 is cheap and lightweight.

Don't get me wrong I have a rifle in .308 for the I hit it, and it drops factor... but .223, or 5.56 is going to be more than enough for most of my shooting.

to me bottom line is which round works best for you, I know some that cant hit dirt with one round but is lights out with the other.

a reply to: smithjustinb

I am preparing for extreme circumstances ... sufficient for a combat situation

Then go with an AR-15. Make sure you understand barrel threading. A .223 tack driver may not be what you want.

You would get a better answer if I had a better understanding of the situation you have in your mind.

The .308 has so many advantages it would take several replies to list the differences.

Note: I didn't once mention bullets.

originally posted by: Mirthful Me

originally posted by: mwood
.308 ammo is around $500 a case now (last time I bought it) and is too expensive for me to shoot much and stocking a few cases is pricey. .223 is way cheaper ammo.

This...

I have both 5.56 and 7.62, and while the 7.62 is ballistically superior and extends your reach, it's heavier* and can really leave a mark on the wallet, even when buying in bulk. I'd say if most of your shooting opportunities are at 400 yards or less, go with the 5.56... If you can stretch the distance beyond that, go 7.62. If you are a trust funder, get both and hire someone to carry all that crap for you...

I would take this opportunity to suggest becoming a 7.62 "hipster" and get a Scout Rifle. Jeff Cooper was brilliant in it's concept, and it is cooler, more practical and above all... Ironic...

*I am speaking from a total load out perspective for field work.

I have all of the major .30`s and 5.56`s but my favorite is an old scout rifle called the FR8 has everything the Ruger has except the box magazine.

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: CloudsTasteMetallic

A few decades ago the Chinese SKS were 90 bucks..
Then 250 and since the last big run on semi auto rifles they are staying around 300 and up.

Really SKS is one of the best semi auto rifles. AK's are more rugged, but SKS is just a great rifle and very accurate.

Saw a couple of milled reciever Chinese AK's at a local gun show a few months back. 2 Grand a piece.

Yeah, since about 10-15 years ago I've shot a few SKS's with buddies out in the woods or at a range, never met one I didn't like. They always ate tons of Wolf, no probems. Great accuracy for the price. Kept telling myself, "Ah, they're everywhere, and dirt cheap. I'll get around to buying my own later." Well when later rolled around... Way different story.

a reply to: Logarock

Yeah, I know, but... its just not the same to me. It's the "missed opportunity" aspect that gets me.

Seeing a lot of love in this thread for the mini 14, anyone have experience with the 30 and if its up to the same high standards?

To drift a little off topic, gotta say my favorite rifle I've ever owned was a Rem 700 chambered in .243 Winchester. Drove tacks all day, had it set up as mainly a varmint/whitetail rig, with just the factory Rem 24" heavy-barrel option, free floating polymer stock, bipod and 4-12x50 scope. A farmer offered to cover my ammo costs if I'd help him thin out the prairie dogs ruining his land and crops.

Great round, if a little underrated in my opinion. Based on a necked-down .308 brass, I see it as the "middle child" between 5.56 and 7.62. The first days of LAPD SWAT used sniper rifles in .243

Commercial loadings can be bought from 55 grains for varmint, and up to 115 for deer, etc. Throws a 75 grain slug at a little over 1000 meters per second. Great ballistics.

originally posted by: switchqm8
a reply to: smithjustinb

I believe most of the back pressure goes thru the buttstock and not the lower receiver. I do not think they would make the upper if the lower could not handle it.they also make a 50 cal upper for the ar platform so i think they can take it i may be wrong not 100 percent sure im still learning myself.

Im not aware of any ar-15 lowers that take 5.56 and 7.62x51 mags.

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: switchqm8
a reply to: smithjustinb

I believe most of the back pressure goes thru the buttstock and not the lower receiver. I do not think they would make the upper if the lower could not handle it.they also make a 50 cal upper for the ar platform so i think they can take it i may be wrong not 100 percent sure im still learning myself.

Im not aware of any ar-15 lowers that take 5.56 and 7.62x51 mags.

The Colt I told you about has a interchangeable mag well ect.

Be it prairie dog hunting in Texas, whitetail hunting in Maine or elk hunting in Colorado, the Colt LE901-16S™ is the rifle for the hunt. Chambered in the classic .308 Winchester cartridge, the LE901-16S is the perfect choice for medium to large sized game animals. Exceptional accuracy is assured by its full floated, 16.1” chrome lined barrel and one-piece monolithic upper receiver, suitable for mounting your optic of choice. Keeping the varmint hunter in mind, the .308 Winchester upper receiver group can be easily swapped out for any Mil-Spec Colt upper receiver chambered in 5.56x45 NATO. The fact that all operating controls are ambidextrous, including the magazine release, bolt catch and safety selector, makes for versatility and ease of use. You can depend on the new Colt LE901-16S to take the shot of your lifetime!

Link

.308 all day.
I got my CETME (.308/7.62x51) for $700 with 10 mags. You want to talk about getting the job done? She'll do it and the next 20 behind too.

a reply to: TiedDestructor

That's cool. But, it weighs a pound and a half more than the scar and its about the same price.

Well everyone. Thanks for the comments and opinions. After doing a lot of research and weighing the pros and cons, I've pretty much decided I'm going to go with the SCAR 17s.

a reply to: smithjustinb

To me it depends on the application.

I have .380 for every day carry. I have .357 for open carry revolver, .22LR for both plinking and as a survival tool. And 7.65x54R for hunting big game.

Your caliber choices should reflect your needs.

To avoid wasting money ask yourself a few questions:

1. What applications can I reasonably expect to use a particular firearm/s for?

2. What calibers would fulfill those applications in a practical sense?

3. What is my cost tolerance?

You will notice that 5.56/.223 is not present in my list any more. It is a cost prohibitive round and its applications are limited in scope to combat/self defense, and varmint hunting/target shooting. I have since sold my custom built AR to finance purchases of firearms and equipment that best fit my needs based on a reasonable assessment of what practical scenarios I can expect.

My Chiappa Rhino is both my home defense and open carry weapon. It is also my side arm for hunting to stave off any surprises. It is chambered in .357 Magnum and can(obviously) also use .38 Special.

My Ruger LCP is a concealed carry weapon for lawful self defense in situation where open carry is either not practical or not possible.

My Ruger 10/22 covers my marksmanship needs at a low cost. It also fills an expedient survival tool role in the even of a disaster where having a small firearm and lots of ammo is a necessity.

My 1938 91/30 Mosin Nagant chambered in 7.62x54R in an Archangel stock with 2 extra 10 round mags is primarily for large game hunting and can double as a self defense weapon in the unlikely event of war or massive civil unrest whereby a long range weapon may be needed.

Always look into other types of weapons and calibers that one may not have considered for the applications one might have.

Write out the list. Not of what you want...Because that list will never end...Trust me I know. The list should contain only what is practical and affordable for you.

a reply to: smithjustinb

If you are preparing for that extreme circumstances . I would get Ar 15 with .223 556 capability its the most common round right now for a rifle. It will be easy to come by if shtf or if martial law happens. And for any one saying this bullet will not stop some one like a 308 or whatever let me shoot you with it and we will see.

a reply to: smithjustinb

Congrats on your choice. Either choice would've been a good one. But..

Learn to reload. 308 ammo is costly.

There are 3 battle rifles that come to mind. The Cetme, Saiga and FN/FAL. In fact, for the cost of a Scars 17 you could have one of each. I have an FN/FAL that I like ....easy to take apart and clean, accurate and affordable. Found one at a gun show last weekend in like new condition for $700.00.

a reply to: TiedDestructor

Just curious is the head space the same on both rounds? I thought they would be different are the rounds the same size? Just a newbie trying to learn thanks..