ATS does it again, jumps to conclusions and breaks a leg doing so.

Is this a terrorist?



Is this a terrorist?



Is this a terrorist?



Is this a terrorist?



Is this a terrorist?



Islam Dar Ayyoub, 14

He said "sign it".
I said "I don't speak hebrew, can you read it aloud to me?"
He said "it's your release paper, you have to sign it."
Afterwards I found out it was a prewritten confession.

Yeah.. first I heard they caught this guy and he confessed that he knew that Hamas had done it but definitely didnt admit to it. I thought of coyrse hed say that if it got him less years, but this thread says he confessed? I doubt he would confess anything to idf.

a reply to: hoth12

Actually, moses would be all the proof you ever need for anything he knew about. He was pretty well known for not being dishonest and would have wanted to die rather than lie to someone, even an enemy.
Is there anyone with that integrity on the entire planet right now? (maybe some.) but not like Moses.

Maybe you just picked the wrong analogy haha

Both of the people fighting in this debacle of destiny are like very small children and never seem to get what they want, while the other side tries to take back what they gave previously, and currently since Obama is president is the even larger reason we have zero diplomatic success, and forget John Kerry, He would be lucky if he could lead a horse to water on a hot day.
Whoever started it, and all that matters not, what matters is the world hasn't anyone who could go in and patch up, rebuild, and Restore trust and friendship between these 2, or anyone else, and if there was, they would be summarily shot.

This says it all for where we stand on the global scene, in my opinion.
With leaders like ours, and theirs, who needs peace and diplomacy?

a reply to: charles1952

Dear Charles,

First, I would like to thank you very much, for your consideration of restraint. I think I understand that on many levels. Believe me, your candor is greatly appreciated.

Again, I will not be able to focus much on this thread today.

I fully agree with what you have written. I think that you and I both, have demonstrated to naysayers that people can find a common ground to discuss this tragedy, reasonably, applying civility, and rationally. I think we together, have proven the "impossible" can be done. It was not hard to do. All we needed to do, is remember at the end of the day, even through all of our differences, we are all Human. We all laugh, cry, bleed, feel, love, believe, and look forward to a time of peace.

I too, feel the same about visiting that city. I do not want to visit Jerusalem currently... I can't without an established domestic tranquility for those that simply want peace. Right now, it is just not worth the risk. I really do want to visit the people there. I want to visit the world. I want to experience and "observe" their cultures, and sample the cuisine of things new and different. Both cultures have contributed knowledge and advancements to our species, and that should be recognized and celebrated.

Also, If you couldn't tell, I am a firm believer that one way to each others hearts, is through our food.

In my opinion, I think racism is a huge root issue to this conflict. If we set aside religion for a moment, Racism and Eugenics, if i recall my history correctly, was a publicly supported and condoned ideology during early 1900s. That ideology slowly went away overtime, but, I do see quite a bit of residual, yet rather tamed, racism from the "Greatest Generation". A logical conclusion to this information, is that decisions made by leadership during that era, may have been racially motivated and not pure in context.

However, with that said.. it seems that since this has been going on so long now, it echos the Hatfield and McCoy feud situation. Are there extremists? Absolutely. But is that everyone on both sides? No. Sadly, man's religion has stepped in to fuel those flames of racism yet again. Given that this is the information age, I truly think we all need to be more mindful, and consider motivation and accuracy first, before we simply accept the message as truth.

I would also like to share something about myself. In my youth, my parents, helped me understand and form an appreciation for music. I think music is another very powerful tool to convey messages, emotions, and feelings. I would like to share two songs, which I think you will find very familiar. I have included videos with lyrics, intentionally for your reading pleasure..

Note: The following is fair use. Educational

The Doobie Brothers - Listen to the Music


Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth


If you step back and consider, how much do those two songs apply today?

Respectfully, with the utmost love.

Someone who cares.

a reply to: aboutface

I suppose that these pinpoint attacks would kill less civilians... If the didn't hide among them, with the people willingly allowing it to happen sometimes.

It's hard to avoid civilian casualties when the enemy is kept hidden by the "civilians"

I am not saying anything in support of either side here, only stating what I know to be the case here. Ultimately this operation doesn't affect me, and thus don't really care. I am so over and done with the ME at this point. They can all kill each other for all I care.

They can't get it together, and I have never had an interest in helping them figure out how to carry on like civilized human beings.

a reply to: g146541

You're a little wrong here. Genetically speaking, Jewish people are kind of a race. It's a pretty small (comparitively) religion and very inclusive.

a reply to: hoth12


What I see her throughout these Mid-East threads is this:

Palestinian supporters are holding all the cards that the Israel supporters cannot beat. So now, in this thread, the Israel supporters all of the sudden want to play chess. They want to let things "cool down" for a bit; not discuss it while innocent civilians are being slaughtered; they want discuss something else other than what is taking place right now.

Let's not push back the goal post. Let's all at least try to agree that children being shredded to pieces by a sophisticated army with sophisticated weaponry to the point of a father having to carry the limbs and head of his dead child in bag is wrong, and let's discuss why that should not be justified for any reason.

My heart goes out to the parents and loved ones of those three Israeli teens (still boys in my mind) and their death should not be justified either. That is wrong.

But I will tell you this....

The entire world knows who is killing innocent children, women and men in Gaza. And no amount of rockets being fired into Israel or the kidnapping and murder of three teens justifies what Israel is doing right now. So let's discuss morality and basic human rights.

There is no war taking place. It takes two nations to engage in war. Israel is a nation; Gaza is not. Israel has an army; Gaza does not.

I love the people of Israel, I believe the majority of them are good souls. I love the people of Gaza, I believe the majority of them are good souls as well.

I am against Hamas firing rockets at Israel no matter what their reasons are for doing so, and I am against Israel indiscriminately slaughtering civilians no matter what their reasons are.

So let's discuss it.

originally posted by: VoidHawk
Lets not forget that one side is being squeezed into an ever shrinking piece of land!

Odd that it was Egypt until the Israelis gave it to the Palestinians.

Had you even considered that for a microsecond?

Harte

originally posted by: Involutionist
a reply to: hoth12


What I see her throughout these Mid-East threads is this:

Palestinian supporters are holding all the cards that the Israel supporters cannot beat. So now, in this thread, the Israel supporters all of the sudden want to play chess. They want to let things "cool down" for a bit; not discuss it while innocent civilians are being slaughtered; they want discuss something else other than what is taking place right now.

Let's not push back the goal post. Let's all at least try to agree that children being shredded to pieces by a sophisticated army with sophisticated weaponry to the point of a father having to carry the limbs and head of his dead child in bag is wrong, and let's discuss why that should not be justified for any reason.

My heart goes out to the parents and loved ones of those three Israeli teens (still boys in my mind) and their death should not be justified either. That is wrong.

But I will tell you this....

The entire world knows who is killing innocent children, women and men in Gaza. And no amount of rockets being fired into Israel or the kidnapping and murder of three teens justifies what Israel is doing right now. So let's discuss morality and basic human rights.

There is no war taking place. It takes two nations to engage in war. Israel is a nation; Gaza is not. Israel has an army; Gaza does not.

I love the people of Israel, I believe the majority of them are good souls. I love the people of Gaza, I believe the majority of them are good souls as well.

I am against Hamas firing rockets at Israel no matter what their reasons are for doing so, and I am against Israel indiscriminately slaughtering civilians no matter what their reasons are.

So let's discuss it.

I thought we were discussing it. The consensus of the posters on this forum believe that the only time to speak up about people dying is when the deaths are not on the Israeli side. Occasionally some posters like you attach a little bit of logic to the argument. I will reiterate that the whole bloody war should stop today.

I have not thought this completely through but I think that the only realistic solution is an international force manning the border between the two countries. Also an active tactical nuke sitting in each of Mecca and Jerusalem. If we have another war both nukes are activated. No more concessions from either side. Done.

Congratulations, ATS...

This site has become nothing more than a den of people accusing each other of being for the terrorists, using hateful words against the Palestinians and the Israeli's and simply hating for what is happening.

The fact so many people on here have become mean-spirited bigots, spewing hatred, it's become way too much for me.

This post, for those of you who may come to attack me for it, is not for Palestine or Israel. It's simply disgust at what is happening.

Well done, jerk-offs. You've made this site into the very thing it wasn't supposed to be.

For the admins and mods of ATS, please see what your site has become and do understand some of us aren't accepting it anymore.

originally posted by: stirling
Why not stop spewing your own version of hate........The IDF and Hamas have both committed war crimes.....
They care not one whit for either sides civilians...in fact seem to relish killing each other off whomever they find to kill.....kids adults old people , its all the same to them...its just a numbers game for the press.....a giant suck on the worlds sympathy tit.....
They can all go to hell in a handbasket for all I care...Time for the people to rise up and fling off the yoke of hatred on their own ........
Over 2000 dead and many more maimed....for three deaths.......an entire city of 1,8 million people without water, electricity, or basic medical treatment.....many Tens of thousands homeless,for three dead Israelis....
Sounds likew NAZI repression tactics to me....you kill one....we kill 100

NAILED IT!! I raise my glass to you sir!

How anyone can think 3 dead Israelis justifies this is absolutely beyond me. That Zionist Koolaid must be some 200proof stuff!

a reply to: hoth12

I do not think you are here to discuss anything. The name of the topic you chose, was biased from the beginning of your posting. I feel your purpose was intended to direct the discussion in the wrong direction.

If you want to "discuss", then, can you elaborate how this does not apply?

en.wikipedia.org...

Eerie how much that shoe fits. Isn't it.

originally posted by: VoxVirtus
a reply to: g146541

You're a little wrong here. Genetically speaking, Jewish people are kind of a race. It's a pretty small (comparitively) religion and very inclusive.

a little wrong and kind of a race...
Is this like being partially pregnant?
Either way it is off topic.
We are discussing the recent propaganda out of israel that they are trying to use to confuse the fact that they are guilty of war crimes and genocide.

a reply to: hoth12

I never took a position on the subject matter one way or another. I have been awaiting proof. Of course I will scrutinize the source information and then draw conclusions from that. I never understood why anyone would reject the notion for or against without verifiable evidence myself.

originally posted by: Chronogoblin
Funny how what, a week ago? People were saying that Hamas didn't doo'd it. Then 'suddenly,' some guy appears, and says "I did it," after how long? Rather convenient that they 'found' this fella at about the same time as they are facing possible war crimes? Absolutely no coercion on their parts? Sure.

I have asked this numerous times and had no reply. Show me a source where an Israeli official stated Hamas did not do it.

Israel should behave more like Westerners and stop bombing the crap out of people who shoot rockets at them.

You know, like Great Britain.

Oh, wait.

Harte

a reply to: Laxpla

yeah man. i concur.

originally posted by: Harte
Israel should behave more like Westerners and stop bombing the crap out of people who shoot rockets at them.

You know, like Great Britain.

Oh, wait.

Harte

Who's currently shooting rockets at Great Britain?

If UK were to Occupy say Ireland I could see the Irish causing trouble.

Oh, wait.

Taggart

a reply to: Not Authorized

Dear Not Authorized,

My heart cries agreement with you.

There must be at least agreement on at least some basic things for any conversation or understanding to occur. You have insisted (correctly) that the vast majority of people on either side would prefer peace and safety in which to live their lives. This is our foundation, the place from which to begin.

I'm a little surprised and saddened that you wrote:

I think that you and I both, have demonstrated to naysayers that people can find a common ground to discuss this tragedy, reasonably, applying civility, and rationally. I think we together, have proven the "impossible" can be done. It was not hard to do.

You forcefully reminded me that so many discussions here do not have that as a starting point. Not saddened that you wrote it, saddened because it is truth and that so many find truth impossible.

Different foods, cultures, music. The whole array of how humans have adapted and learned to enjoy their lives and each other is a constant surprise and delight. (Although I still have trouble with eating squid and fried bugs.)

Concerning the music for just a moment, I remembered the tunes which you provided, but not the bands or the lyrics. Thanks for the reminder. But can we become a little more universal in our appeal? Present an even more basic and important message? I understand that the BBC classical music presentations are heard throughout the world. Are there pieces of music which show the beauty humanity can create from any culture or peoples? Something like "Wow, that piece of music, created by people I'm suspicious of, shows their heart, their desire for beauty, their true humanity."

Now, if you don't mind, I'd like to display a little of the candor which you so gracefully welcomed.

Both cultures have contributed knowledge and advancements to our species, and that should be recognized and celebrated.

I believe that, in general, all groups of humans have contributed knowledge to us, but even if they haven't they should all be celebrated and respected as the children of God that they are. I think we must be careful that we don't offer respect based on a cultures contributions. I know that you didn't suggest that, but it is a possible trap.

Which culture has provided more than the Greeks, the Romans, and even the Western Europeans and North Americans? In terms of science Muslim Arabs have, over the last century, contributed almost nothing while Israel has made great advancements. I wouldn't want anyone to say that Muslims Arabs are disposable since they've contributed less in this area. Returning to religion for a moment, we are equal in God's eyes and will be judged by our choices.

I am a little less certain than you are about the role and importance of racism, for a couple of reasons. First, it's importance today, and second, it's importance in making decisions at the time.

I'm not clear that Jews today are considered a race. I would have thought that they were people of the area who formed a culture based upon their religious beliefs. I would think that was true of the Muslims as well. For the Muslims, however, their conquests led them to absorb people from Europe and Africa, which would make Islam practiced by a wider range of people. Of course, with membership that large, they'd pretty much have to have that wider range.

Were acts towards the Jews in the last hundred years based on racism? If so, for the Jews or against them? Britain went through an anti-Semitic period, so did Germany. So, for that matter, did almost all of Europe. I wonder if the decision to give Jews a country of their own in the middle of the desert was designed to get them out of Europe's hair and make it possible to ignore the Jews from then on.

As you point out, the racism which may have been behind the decisions doesn't much matter now. The people who were 20 years old then are 86 now, and unlikely to have any influence. When a referee makes a bad decision in a contest, the players continue the game. The decision has been made and the only question is "Given that the decision has been made, where do we go from here."

My frustration is based on my difficulty in getting a serious discussion based on "Given that the decision has been made, where do we go from here." So many want to find fault, but so few are trying to find a reasonable peace.

With respect,
Charles1952

originally posted by: Taggart

originally posted by: Harte
Israel should behave more like Westerners and stop bombing the crap out of people who shoot rockets at them.

You know, like Great Britain.

Oh, wait.

Harte

Who's currently shooting rockets at Great Britain?

If UK were to Occupy say Ireland I could see the Irish causing trouble.

Oh, wait.

Taggart

Is there a morality in crushing an enemy that attacks you on your soil, then, once you are comfortable, decrying other sovereign nations when they crush theirs?

Dresden, anyone? What about the big one - Hiroshima/Nagasaki?

Harte