ATS does it again, jumps to conclusions and breaks a leg doing so.

a reply to: coastlinekid

Bingo. Look at the divisiveness of this issue and on almost every forum I go to, every news site's comment section, youtube, etc... everyone is rabidly attacking each other over this issue. And the way it seems most people think to solve this issue is by blaming one side or the other and exacting revenge against them. That's exactly how we got here! If there is just one more big incident, which unfortunately I feel in my bones there will be, this power keg is going to blow us all out of our cozy lounge chairs and we will choke to death over our doritos and beer. If we do not think through everything rationally (for once), this all could get really ugly real fast.

a reply to: hoth12

Really. No Solutions? Ok. Let's "test" that allegation.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Finish writing that progressive Constitution and incorporate all rights for Palestine, starting with my signature. Oh, and it must include Palestinians own right of return.

Then bind it all together with Equal Protection so there is no more legalized racism and everything is a win-win.

a reply to: hoth12

Dear hoth12,

I'm sorry that I failed to notice that you're relatively new here. I'd like to bid you welcome, but as you see, you're not very welcome, at least on this subject.

They don't do this to everyone, jumping off the subject and going after you personally. My suspicion is that they hope to intimidate you. Don't let them get you down and remember to take a break when the insanity reaches levels beyond human tolerance.

With respect,
Charles1952

Is it possible that Hamas is actually controlled, funded, armed by Israel ?

It makes sense to me ?

It would be a perfect fit with what is happening and with the Mossad motto "By way of deception, thou shall do war"

Is there any evidence to support the theory ?

Hamas drives around in UN ambulances, stashes their rockets in UN schools....and if the UN finds them they hand them back to Hamas, they herd civilians on rooftops to get killed, they shoot rockets into refugee camps and hospitals to blame on Israel, they shoot rockets off right next to foreign journalist housing (and said foreign journalists don't report it till they get out of gaza but oh hamas don't threaten the media, they get caught dragging bodies around and adding dead kids for the staging of photos and videos, now they are caught red handed having ordered the kidnappings that escalated this whole war.

Oh all of those are now proven facts, but the same crew of avatars on ATS will deny deny deny, their ignorance is monumental.

a reply to: charles1952

As always, a pleasure to see you on the threads, Charles.

You know my take on this entire issue, so I wont even go in to that, but I think no matter which side you take we can agree that the level of hatred and anger over this issue has become out of control.

All common sense and civility is being thrown out the window and is being replaced by outrage and "violence" towards the other sides.

I really wish we all would take a step back, relax a bit and approach this with clearer minds.

a reply to: TinfoilTP
Even IF everything you said was true, someone else is still pulling the trigger that kills these children.
But this is hardly the topic is it?
If you fail to admit that israel uses subversive tactics, you lose all credibility as it is their hallmark.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

Lol. I'm sorry man. Your avatar is hilarious. So ironic.

originally posted by: Bassago
a reply to: hoth12

A Palestinian arrested by an Israeli anti-terrorism unit has confessed

Yeah no doubt he confessed. I'm certain the interrogators in Israel just as ruthless as the ones at Gitmo. Anyone would confess anything in a situation like that.

Both sides are guilty, Israel has slaughtered more innocents though.

Darn your fast....or I'm slow, I was going to say about the same thing.

a reply to: sheepslayer247

Dear sheepslayer247,

Yes, yes! YES!

I don't care whether we agree or disagree, let's talk. None of this attacking each other that is going on. I've put up at least one thread requesting that. The situation we're in now leaves me astonished, baffled, and angry. The only thing this site has to offer is respectful conversation. Sorry, make that "had." We might be able to get it back, but it doesn't look so good.

Can Reality Remix focus 40 minutes or more on this subject so that ATS can have a decent conversation on it somewhere? I'm not learning anything new the way it's going.

I was going to write more, but why?

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: charles1952

Because you need ground rules for that kind of conversation first.

You will have to admit that Holder was right. We need a "Racial Animus", to discuss what racism really is.

It is not what you think it is. Then, we can talk about this on the same page.

originally posted by: g146541
a reply to: TinfoilTP
Even IF everything you said was true, someone else is still pulling the trigger that kills these children.
But this is hardly the topic is it?
If you fail to admit that israel uses subversive tactics, you lose all credibility as it is their hallmark.

4800 airstrikes, a full scale ground invasion with armor and artillery for weeks and only 1900 out of 1,600,000 dead in the oft touted "most densely populated place on earth". It is clear Israel is avoiding casualties while at the same time Hamas is throwing civilians into the meat grinder. If even for a small percentage of that offensive capability used Israel was indiscriminate, the number dead would be a hundred fold.

Enjoying the ignorance.

a reply to: charles1952

I think the problem were facing is that neither side of the debate is willing to concede certain points to the opposing sides. In a logical, fruitful conversation it is ok to be passionate and stand up for one's beliefs...but at some point you will have to concede certain facts and truths to the other side. That is what makes for an open and honest conversation.

We're so gung-ho for our side that many of us are not going to do that, despite the evidence or facts that are presented.

So in the end I think we are lacking honesty within ourselves.

To Not Authorized: ATS has ground rules for our discussions. Decorum and Civility. It's hard sometimes to stick to those guidelines when we get worked up on a particular issue, but they are still there. Some of us would be better off if we read those guidelines again.

Hey? Were going to war and Lets bring the Kids!

Both are being stupid having no respect for the Young One! Or is it Why this War has Lasted This Long? Yet I an cold, so Lets call a Time Out. Remove the Children and others who do not want to Play and Let them Have At it!

All one could do is either Watch and Complain who is Right or Get In There; UN Hello? And let them Be! What's the big deal with Jews Anyways? Forgive my Not Knowing; what do they have that everyone wants to take them out anyways?

So far have not seen anything, satan's child is not coming from them, and seem nice to me while roaming the Streets in my hood! Does anyone actually Know?

Going for the Children is just plain out Wrong! Both can go to hell as far as I care. Another Line being Crossed and not even the UN can do anything about it since we have the red tape from said Nuts to go through. Shame!

Peace

a reply to: Not Authorized

Dear Not Authorized,

I'd go a long, long way to have a reasonable discussion. I think the most basic problem is "What do we talk about?" We've got lots of choices:

How to get from here to peace,
How to protect the most fundamental interests of each side,
Whether we should put more blame on one side than another,
and several more.

My preference would be to discuss the first option. It is too easy, as we have seen, to start fights over who was first or who did the worst thing.

Would you be kind enough to explain about Holder and Racial Animus? I didn't think Holder was very authoritative on the subject of race, but I'm probably missing your point.

With respect,
Charles1952

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: charles1952

Because you need ground rules for that kind of conversation first.

You will have to admit that Holder was right. We need a "Racial Animus", to discuss what racism really is.

It is not what you think it is. Then, we can talk about this on the same page.

I agree with you and there is certainly racism in much of what the Israeli government has done and is doing. Here in the US, people think racism has gone away but I see it all the time. People may not see it because it has become institutionalized, and that is a much more sinister type of racism. It is much harder to go after this type of racism since it is harder to see, harder to break free of because you don't know what to fight against and when you do fight, people call you a sore loser.

a reply to: sheepslayer247

Dear sheepslayer247,

Fount of knowledge and wisdom in this desert. Peace be upon you, strength to your arm, and may you have many children to brighten your old age. (No, I have no idea why I wrote that. Sometimes things just flow.)

I'd like to suggest a line of approach for such a discussion as I desire. First, make perfectly symmetrical assumptions. Israel and Palestine both get to exist. Israel and Palestine stop sending death or attacks to the other. Israel and Hamas both have squeaky clean elections as soon as possible.

With that granted (if it is) we figure out how to put those things into place.

I know this is sketchy, but there hasn't been much demand on my brain for logical thought in this subject area. We can flesh it out, hear opinions, and maybe get somewhere.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: TinfoilTP
Yes I often blame the victims for their rape as well.
/sarcasm
But this is hardly the topic again...

originally posted by: hoth12

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: charles1952

Because you need ground rules for that kind of conversation first.

You will have to admit that Holder was right. We need a "Racial Animus", to discuss what racism really is.

It is not what you think it is. Then, we can talk about this on the same page.

I agree with you and there is certainly racism in much of what the Israeli government has done and is doing.

I see the newest tactic here, fall back on racism. (and the OP listed a whole slew of the recent ATS gangland tactics other than this one)
The extermination of Israel doesn't qualify as racism under this version of ignorance.

How about talking about the OP, Hamas confessed to ordering the kidnappings ...didn't think so.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: g146541
a reply to: TinfoilTP
Even IF everything you said was true, someone else is still pulling the trigger that kills these children.
But this is hardly the topic is it?
If you fail to admit that israel uses subversive tactics, you lose all credibility as it is their hallmark.

4800 airstrikes, a full scale ground invasion with armor and artillery for weeks and only 1900 out of 1,600,000 dead in the oft touted "most densely populated place on earth". It is clear Israel is avoiding casualties while at the same time Hamas is throwing civilians into the meat grinder. If even for a small percentage of that offensive capability used Israel was indiscriminate, the number dead would be a hundred fold.

Enjoying the ignorance.

except Israel is tippy-toeing around war crimes as it is. Nations all over the world including the UN have condemned Israel's use of force in populated areas. Why would Israel level the whole city if they are trying to come out of this looking legit? Your rational makes NO sense.