if the Disclosure project was a hoax?

I was just pondering over something, that I declared in the Meier thread. I call upon members to research the claims of the disclosure project, it's proponents and their history and also speculate on what their agenda could be.

I would like you to ponder this thought I had: If the disclosure project was proven to be a hoax, what kind of impact do you think this would have on UFO believers and and the field of ufology, and especially on the witnesses of it, who may actually be oblivious to it's agenda.

The reason, I ask this, is because of the disclosure projects endorsement of Meier. Also, considering, the rather shoddy past of it's head, Steven Greer. Who apparently is known to have swindled people out of their money, to see UFO's, that were produced by him shining flashlights in the sky.

I am not sure what kind of hoax this could be, but do consider, that it involves a lot of high ranking officials from the government. There is so much government involvement, in exposing a government cover-up, that it really makes you question what the agenda could be.

I think it can be the following:

1. There is no agenda or conspiracy. They are a truthful organization, that are working to expose the government.

2. They are all, everyone of it's proponents, part of a hoax, to make money(yet declared a non profit organization)

3. It is a government designed hoax, but many of the proponents are oblivious, that will be exposed later, and the credibility of everyone involved will be destroyed, and further, the credibility of all affiliate organizations and UFO research itself (This sounds dangerous)

4. It is a government designed hoax, but a hoax of a different kind, to declare a false alien invasion or to cover-up an actual alien invasion by a malevolent species. The disclosure project claims all of the alien species are peaceful.

5. It is government designed hoax, as claimed by project bluebeam, to usher in the Antichrist in the guise of an alien leader.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Well first thing is, not as many people know about the disclosure project as you might think. In fact, I am continually amazed when I talk to people interested in the subject that they don't know. They always come back with that "Uh oh" look on their faces when I send em there for the first time. Heh, so I guess what I am saying is that it may not have that big an effect if it was discovered that it was a hoax. But it would certainly make me pretty unhappy. I happen to have a brother who has actually been on an expedition to Gulf Breeze with Steven, as well as know a pretty good friend of Steven's. And I know more than that, but I cannot say (would love to though). Let's just say that from what those two people have told me, it is my opinion that he is for real, all in all, and the disclosure project has much merit. Not saying 100% merit, but pretty damn close. Close enough. Hope that helps.

Regards,
TA



[edit on 4-12-2004 by TrueAmerican]

Id have to agree with True American. I do alot of study on UFOs, and had only heard of the disclosure project on ATS. It is not a big deal in the UFO community, who either ignore it, or see it as yet another futile crusade that thinks they have a shot loosening up our leaders tounges.

Besides, disclosure project is too New Age/Spiritual/Space brothers in thier philosphy, and thus, few serious researchers endorse them.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Id have to agree with True American. I do alot of study on UFOs, and had only heard of the disclosure project on ATS. It is not a big deal in the UFO community, who either ignore it, or see it as yet another futile crusade that thinks they have a shot loosening up our leaders tounges.

Besides, disclosure project is too New Age/Spiritual/Space brothers in thier philosphy, and thus, few serious researchers endorse them.

Yes, but what the disclosure project is comprised of, is many reseachers, top level witnesses, scientists; some 500+. If say scenorio 3 were to materialize, it would leave a lot of pro UFO personality reputations badly damaged. If this were proven to a hoax, it would present us with a case in ufology where some 500+ top level personalities and witnesses were shown to be hoaxers, and this would become the single biggest criticism of ufology, after Meiers.

If this became public, imagine how much the media would lap it up. Imagine the headlines all over the major government puppet media: CNN, ABC, BBC, NBC

500+ government, military and science witnesses, LIED about the existence of aliens. It would destroy all credibility of the UFO theories.

Imagine, hearing this example being repeated by everyone to dismiss everything UFO related. I know it would disenchant many believers. I think you are underestimating how disparaging it would be if the disclosure project was exposed as a hoax. I think it would forever destroy serious investigation of UFO's. At the end of the day a UFO investigator is providing testimony. Who would believe any UFO investigator again, after 500+ high level professionals testimony was caught as a lie.

Anyway, I hope this is just pessimism on my part. It appears the disclosure project is favourable to the ET hypothesis and so far has presented evidence that seems compatible with much of the cover-up hypothesis.


[edit on 4-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

From what I have learned, S.Greer has put the DP on the back burner, so to speak, although keeping the DP website alive at www.disclosureproject.org... . I have heard that his strategy is to pursue the development of zero point energy and other advanced technologies with his company Space Energy Access Systems which you can read more about at www.seaspower.com...

This is in attempt to raise the funding for the continuance, on a larger scale, of the DP, as well as advance the energy causes he speaks of in the DP. Somehow I doubt at this point that he will be proven a hoax.

500+ government, military and science witnesses, LIED about the existence of aliens. It would destroy all credibility of the UFO theories.

Well i very much doubt there all lying, it may be possible although i doubt it Steven Greer is a fraud himself, however that wouldnt mean his witnesses aren't sincere, if his project (the entire thing) was proven a hoax, well i might stop believing that we have been visited by extra terrestrials, it would have a MAJOR impact on UFOlogy.

However it's pretty much impossible to prove that over 500 witnesses are lying.

In my opinion, I don't believe the Disclosure project to be a hoax.

If I were in the shoes of those people who want to reveal the contents of the Disclosure Project as fact, I would not want to risk losing any credibility by gathering the media of the world in one room to announce something that I know is false & can eventually be verified as false. I would rather risk losing any credibility from outside forces who oppose revealing the possibility of truth contained in the Disclosure project.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by evilution]

Indigo_child you make valid points and I will try to address them. However, before I do, I have questions for you myself. You brought up some interesting points....

I call upon members to research the claims of the disclosure project, it's proponents and their history and also speculate on what their agenda could be.

I have also made this same call many months ago. Nothing happened. I guess research is time and money.

The reason, I ask this, is because of the disclosure projects endorsement of Meier.

I have heard a lot about this endorsement, but can you provide us a link that confirms the endorsement? I wasnt able to find anything. Another question is: When did they endorse him? Have they stopped endorsing him? It could be that they've looked at his pictures, and accidentally took him into the project without heavily criticizing his credibilty and now they probably wish they never took him in, in the first place. If that is true, then the disclosure project should be more critical of their witnesses!

Also, considering, the rather shoddy past of it's head, Steven Greer. Who apparently is known to have swindled people out of their money, to see UFO's, that were produced by him shining flashlights in the sky.

I have also heard rumors about Greer's "shady" past from UFO watchdog, which is a good site, however, they provided no links whatsoever. No credibility was established becuase of that. When UFO watch dog puts someone down, they write alot about you, and they wrote very little about Steven Greer, which could not be verified or validated anywhere. Send me a link if you have any regarding this. A google search also came up bad for me. I only found a few message board opinions.

Now in regards to what you have said, here is my opinion:

1. There is no agenda or conspiracy. They are a truthful organization, that are working to expose the government.

I think if Steven's past was bad, then that need not imply he is still bad. It could be that he turned a new leap.

2. They are all, everyone of it's proponents, part of a hoax, to make money(yet declared a non profit organization)

Well, in my opinion, they are not making much. The reason is: 1. No one knows about them. I am a firm believer of the conspiracy but I only heard about them a few months ago. 2. No one really buys or donates any money these days. I am a firm supporter of disclosure and their work, but I havent bothered to donate anything or buy anything. So no one really pays up anything, and therefore this project is a poor way for a steady income.

In addition, correct me if I am wrong, but doesnt the disclosure project say you can get a tax deductible if you donate to them? I think on their website it says they have applied to get some license as a non-profit organization so if you donate to them, you can legally get a tax deductible in the U.S. I know that X-PPAC is like that: www.x-ppac.org, but I thought I read that on the disclosure project's site. Sorry I dont know want to go through searching for it again

3. It is a government designed hoax, but many of the proponents are oblivious, that will be exposed later, and the credibility of everyone involved will be destroyed, and further, the credibility of all affiliate organizations and UFO research itself (This sounds dangerous)

That is a very good point, but a dangerous point. If this is true, then I think Greer may be getting set up and doesnt know it. Lets put it like this....if you falsify the disclosure project, you falsify everything, and the evidence/proof for an alien/government coverup is no where to be found, and the government has us where they want us. We will be back on the surface again, trying to claw through to find the truth. But this time the surface will made out of metal, we will have to use our nails. Let us hope the disclosure project is the real deal.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by kyateLaBoca]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
If say scenorio 3 were to materialize, it would leave a lot of pro UFO personality reputations badly damaged.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Ha! Most of those "UFO personalities" are full of crap, using a little truth and a little mystery to sell book after book of speculation and fantasy, so they don't have to get a real job.

Disclosure is a great idea and I seriously doubt there is any chance of a hoax, but Greer should get away from it and hand it off to someone who is more reputable. I think he is the biggest hinderance to the project, but I don't think his ego will let him. Plus if he starts going off on zero point energy, then he is mixing the two issues and getting bogged down on having to prove two very difficult things: aliens exist and free energy!

The thing now about Disclosure is that whoever is leading this "UFO/MAJIC-12" group is probably going to send in bogus actors that discredit Disclosure. So Greer or whoever is in charge will have to be very wary of this. In fact I'd be shocked if this MAJIC group is not monitoring this board already.

Good point Indigo on bringing this issue up...it makes you think how a good idea like Disclosure can easily be reversed and destroy that which it is trying to achieve (sort of like Blue Book and all the other crap investigations the government did to discredit UFOs under the guise of getting to the truth).

[edit on 12-4-2004 by Boogie]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I was just pondering over something, that I declared in the Meier thread. I call upon members to research the claims of the disclosure project, it's proponents and their history and also speculate on what their agenda could be.

I can think of several things, including one that you didn't mention that I think is the most likely scenario:

Many of the people have the agenda that they want to see their view of aliens legitimized and they are hoping that the government will reveal documents so that their weak case can be suddenly strengthened. Others think that there may information about projects and so forth that will clear up some of the UFO sightings.

I'm not sure that everyone there is a True Believer.

I personally don't think that the govenment is hiding UFO contact. There would be too many whistle-blowers (who all report the SAME thing) and other kinds of evidence. We don't see any of that kind of evidence around.

(that said, yes I think there are other civilizations out there among the stars. I'm iffy on whether they've contacted us or noticed us yet.)

4. It is a government designed hoax, but a hoax of a different kind, to declare a false alien invasion or to cover-up an actual alien invasion by a malevolent species. The disclosure project claims all of the alien species are peaceful.

I'll say a definite "no" to this. If some alien species wanted to come in and take over, they would just take over (as the US did with the American Indians) with no need to sneak around.

5. It is government designed hoax, as claimed by project bluebeam, to usher in the Antichrist in the guise of an alien leader.

Definiite "no." Most Christian scholars say that Revelation is about the reign of Nero... and no religion other than the Christians have anything about an antichrist arising.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
If the disclosure project was proven to be a hoax, what kind of impact do you think this would have on UFO believers and and the field of ufology, and especially on the witnesses of it, who may actually be oblivious to it's agenda.

4. It is a government designed hoax, but a hoax of a different kind, to declare a false alien invasion or to cover-up an actual alien invasion by a malevolent species. The disclosure project claims all of the alien species are peaceful.

I haven't put much faith in the Disclosure Project. I have checked out their website every now and then. I don't think that the Disclosure Project is a hoax, I think it is an attempt to disclose some truth. But, an organization as large as this is going to have agents who are involved in conserving the secrecy of alien life/visitation to this planet.

I think that this Project will not get very far at all because of the nature of Extra terrestrial life. To try and disclose something like this is to expose parts of the Government's secret projects that have occured and are now occuring.

Interesting point, Indigo.

But i doubt the disclosure project is a hoax, even if they do support Billy Meier and a view that aliens are peaceful.

Many well established scientific institutions have nedorsed faulty people and ideas before, and didnt suffer terribly.

The disclosure project, while considerable, is no where near the numbers and influence of the big UFO research orgs, like CUFOS, MUFON, ect. If ythose guys came out to be publically ridiculed, wed be in trouble.

But I dont think that Disclosure would make such an impact. Just because Greer might endorse an idea, doesnt mean everyone in Disclosure feels the same way. They may have joined it simply as a platform for trying to get the truth out.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Interesting point, Indigo.

But i doubt the disclosure project is a hoax, even if they do support Billy Meier and a view that aliens are peaceful.

Many well established scientific institutions have nedorsed faulty people and ideas before, and didnt suffer terribly.

The disclosure project, while considerable, is no where near the numbers and influence of the big UFO research orgs, like CUFOS, MUFON, ect. If ythose guys came out to be publically ridiculed, wed be in trouble.

But I dont think that Disclosure would make such an impact. Just because Greer might endorse an idea, doesnt mean everyone in Disclosure feels the same way. They may have joined it simply as a platform for trying to get the truth out.

I think you are understimating the the magnitude and importance of the ufo subject If the truth comes out NOTHING will be the same anymore, no more status-quo no more power hungry morons who will walk over dead bodies to reach their goals.!

oNLY THE TRUTH will set us FREE! and they know it!

Originally posted by Boogie
The thing now about Disclosure is that whoever is leading this "UFO/MAJIC-12" group is probably going to send in bogus actors that discredit Disclosure. So Greer or whoever is in charge will have to be very wary of this. In fact I'd be shocked if this MAJIC group is not monitoring this board already.

MAJIC group monitoring ATS? Of course not! No sirreee, not a chance!

Whatever gave you that idea?

As for Steve Greer and the DP, I think the best approach, as always, is one of skepticism. The National Press Club press conference was impressive, to be sure, but I think it would be presumptuous to assume that everything is as it seems with this project.

As for "nonprofit" research groups, they do pay salaries -- just because the corporation is "nonprofit" does not mean people can't get rich off of it. In fact, it is a very common way to generate a fat paycheck from donors.

I don't know about Greer and the DP one way or another, but I am suspicious. I don't think they are telling us everything we should know about them.

And whether or not they are found legitimate or discredited, I strongly advise against developing an opinion regarding extraterrestrials on the basis of a single source.


[edit on 12/4/2004 by Majic]

Before the Disclosure Project there was another effort made
to publicize the UFO and ET subject. That was called Project
Starlight, a few years ago. Steven Greer (more naive then)
accepted the assistance of Rockefeller to sponsor the CSETI
investigation. If you are more interested in that by all means
see the CSETI web site and the other position papers. The
point I make here is simply that Rockefeller is DEEP into the
World Order, and is considered one of the Elitists backing
the ETs-as-enemies project, BY HIS OWN ADMISSION. (
in the latest Disclosure Project Greer has NOT had anything
to do with Rockefeller, the NWO, or big money in any way).

Also after Greer and company personal separated from
Rockefeller, they have had indirect and direct attacks upon
their persons, resulting in death for some.

Although unable to "prove" who were responsible, by going
public in a big way with the Disclosure Project he provides
some protection for people working to expose the details of
the ET cover up.

And he has openly admitted the mistake of being involved
with NWO Elitists in the past who want to portray the ET-as-
enemies so as to consolidate their power and control over the
populations who would turn towards the "solutions" they
offer to fight off the "aliens".

Greer seems to have been more naive at one time and
accepted assistance from certain groups of people who have
their own agenda. But he seeks now to expose the ET
cover up so as to help society evolve, and to help introduce
ET advanced technology to make the world a better place to
live.

IMO the evidence just doesn't point towards the Disclosure
Project being a hoax.

(Here is a link that gives a brief summary to date about this
subject for anyone not aware of what this is about..
www.magicalblend.com...




[edit on 4-12-2004 by mockan]

The disclosure project and others can go on and on about their cause. The Gov't has plausible denialbility. There is nothing more plausibly deniable than UFOs. The gov't would be openning itself up to lawsuit after lawsuit if it were to be found that they are lying about this. It ain't gonna' happen.