Iron Dome Fake - A Massive Hoax - Missiles Blowing Up in the Air?

a reply to: stormbringer1701

The Guardian has it there at $95,000 per missile that Iron Dome fires. They were the 4th MSM source I came across reporting within $10,000 of each other in the $90-$100,000 range. They could all be wrong but I did try my best to rely on the most commonly accepted figure that currently exists in the public domain.

The new system looks interesting. Now if it operates in full battle conditions the way it is advertised to, it will be something special.

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: Bilk22

I think the iron dome missiles are real enough, but I wouldn't be surprised if they fire them off both at rockets they know aren't damaging and at nothing, because they just ask the US for money.

Then, Hamas is shooting rockets with no explosives in them, to cause Israel to use as much of it's expensive rockets as possible to try to bleed them.

Unfortunately for the Palestinians, Israel has their hand in our cookie jar.

I didn't claim they weren't real. I see the video as being a good explanation on how this deception is being pulled off. Think about it, the Israelis don't only need to fool the rest of the world, they need to fool their own people. Now we see some of those people are questioning the reality of things.

originally posted by: MrCynic
a reply to: stormbringer1701

The Guardian has it there at $95,000 per missile that Iron Dome fires. They were the 4th MSM source I came across reporting within $10,000 of each other in the $90-$100,000 range. They could all be wrong but I did try my best to rely on the most commonly accepted figure that currently exists in the public domain.

The new system looks interesting. Now if it operates in full battle conditions the way it is advertised to, it will be something special.

the M-THEL is another joint project between IDF and the American military. it has been extensively field tested to include blind battle drills. the biggest problems with the original M-thel was firstly the 3 semi truck Footprint of complete system and as a secondary issue the lasing medium. but since M-THEL fulfilled it's testing Goals 2nd and third generation follow ons (more reasonable footprint and solid state lasing mediums) have been made. The US is deploying combat laser systems on land and at sea now. The Israelis will surely do the same thing for economic and logistical reasons. or they may wait for weapons grade slab and fiber lasers. those can be steered optically with no moving turret necessary. such weapons will have an up to 120 degree sector of fire in horizontal and vertical sector limits. exactly the same as a phased array radar antenna. recent developments have greatly reduced atmospheric issues. firstly there was laser optical compensation. now there is jacketed laser beam tech to further reduce atmospheric antenuation. which means greater range and less dwell time.

Slab fiber or led laser emitters that can be combined in any number required are individually cooler and thus require greatly reduced cooling solutions. this alone did away with one of the semi trucks needed for the 1st generation M-THEL. secondly the advance of the state of the art reduced the size of truck needed for the laser itself to a single LMTV or even a Hummer sized vehicle for simple air defense or counter mortar. then the power of slab, fiber, and led emitters was increased while some frequency flexibility was added. Now LED lasers can cut and burn. finally the jacketing technique means that the beam is more resistant to moisture and shimmer and bloom effects of the atmosphere; fog, rain etc... which means the beam retains weapon strength for a greater range than older tech.

a reply to: abe froman

Why then do the Israeli government release infrared footage of everything else? And special operations? They seem to be showing everything to further their cause, why wouldn't they want to release the footage showing missiles being intercepted? And I mean visible ones or radar contacts backed up by real time footage.

a reply to: NiZZiM They do? Are you sure? I can't find any. We are talking about infa red missile tracking cameras and I've never seen any released by anyone during a conflict.

a reply to: abe froman

I've only ever seen one or two IR videos released even from testing. I think one was actually released from the GBI testing. I got my hands on one through the guys that took it, but that's about it.

a reply to: Zaphod58Well I know that you know your stuff, being ex military I have seen and been shown a great deal as well, but apparently NiZZim has connections that go far beyond both of us because he has seen infa red special forces footage of "everything else".

a reply to: kloejen

The Jewish Telegraphic Agency (JTA) service features a news article titled, Iron Dome ineffective, says MIT scientist, July 23, 2014 6:18am. The expert states that the Iron Dome is ineffective and has about a 5% success rate.

The low casualty rate is due to an early warning system and a large number of bunkers. The US tax payers are funding this 225 Million dollar luxury item.

originally posted by: Gianfar
a reply to: kloejen

The Jewish Telegraphic Agency (JTA) service features a news article titled, Iron Dome ineffective, says MIT scientist, July 23, 2014 6:18am. The expert states that the Iron Dome is ineffective and has about a 5% success rate.

The low casualty rate is due to an early warning system and a large number of bunkers. The US tax payers are funding this 225 Million dollar luxury item.

they are full of crap. period. end of story. I'd rather be right than so damned ideological that i believe the anti Israeli -hype to the point i disregard science. Since i know a great deal about counter RAM including several similar systems such as Patriot and THAAD and the SM3 i can tell you any claims that the iron dome is anything less than 90 percent effective is full of pig poop.

Wait wait wait... The guy is asking a question, he's also asking for a little proof, I see nothing wrong in this... They say hamas rockets are not visible to the naked eye, but why? You would think we would see some at least!

Tell you what, can anyone find any video of hamas rockets at all? If we can find video of hamas rockets coming over that would lay waste to the not visible to the human eye theory... Gonna get to looking now...

a reply to: Meee32

Why would you be able to see a small rocket traveling at high speed with the naked eye? It's not like they have a huge smoke trail to highlight their position.

That's like saying bullets aren't real because you can't see them.

www.google.co.uk... hits%20youtube&ei=22rjU53yHtKw7AaksIGgBg&usg=AFQjCNELBNzg2B1uN8ePo0BgAnM83P3fWQ&bvm=bv.72676100,d.ZGU

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Meee32

Why would you be able to see a small rocket traveling at high speed with the naked eye? It's not like they have a huge smoke trail to highlight their position.

That's like saying bullets aren't real because you can't see them.

Well, not quite... because a rocket is not a bullet right? Or are you saying hamas rockets are bullet sized?

EDIT: Hmmm finding it hard to find any hamas rockets hitting at all... I googled "hamas rocket hitting youtube"

Sorry my phone puts links at the top on ATS lol... But I found that one...


Anyone else have video of hamas rockets actually hitting?

www.google.co.uk... 0hits%20youtube&ei=22rjU53yHtKw7AaksIGgBg&usg=AFQjCNH9TMFPyhKuvIqINgyd38C2DnfTtQ&bvm=bv.72676100,d.ZGU

Found this too... Listen to the sound, is it me or is that the sound of rocket being prepelled? Another member said at this point they'll be "gliding"... Is this the sound or a gliding rocket?

a reply to: Meee32

They're not ICBM sized rockets. Five of the rockets they use are between 60mm and 122mm. Two or three of those are about as tall as a person with the booster attached. If the booster detaches after firing all that is left is a very small warhead with no way to track it with the naked eye.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Meee32

They're not ICBM sized rockets. Five of the rockets they use are between 60mm and 122mm. Two or three of those are about as tall as a person with the booster attached. If the booster detaches after firing all that is left is a very small warhead with no way to track it with the naked eye.

Right sure... So you see the second video... Does that show a detached rocket? Or is that the sound of a rocket still under propulsion? In your opinion?

Also can you find any video of hamas rockets hitting and causing any damage? I'm really struggling to find some, I find that odd...

Would take 2 seconds the other way around no?

My guess: Iron Dome is a big fake (for propaganda -- and to make some money)

These Hamas rockets are nothing more than glorified fireworks — something rocket-hobbyists can build in their backyards. If you look at wikipedias Qassam Rocket page you could easily see that it is a slow subsonic device with a very short range (at max 10 miles). Technically it is far-far below a simple old soviet Grad launcher. The Qassam isn’t a ballistic missile, so when the fuel is burned-out the rocket drops down at once -- it has no aerodynamic quality. And the „warhead“ (front-section) may explode or may not — it hasn’t a special fuse for impact, or time, or height or gps position. If the fuel has burned out, the explosive charge explodes with a short delay.

Who ever tried to fire several firework rockets in the same direction knows they will fly any direcetion they want. And so will these tinkered home build Qassam. This is because they are „tinkered“ with no quality management and so every rocket is a singular design in regards to length, diameter, wing-cut, welding, etc. — and their starting frames are positioned without high precision. So when 10 rockets start… will they impact in the same area? I guess not. They will „target“ a large area for "shock and awe".

But what can we see in these Iron Dome intercept videos? Always we see an area of the sky… and Iron-Dome rockets start with a trail (or lit motor at night), they fly subsonic, make smoke-trail-turns and than a smoke-puffs. As I understand Iron Dome, every ID-rocket targets only one Qassam — not 10 ID for one Qassam. We see starting of up to 15 ID rockets in some youtube videos. And in one single pictures of the sky we see the smoke-puffs of several killed Qassams. But because of the non existent precision of these Qassam, we never could see so much Iron-Dome kills in one single picture. Even if Hamas starts 20 Qassam in one strike, they will not fly together in one bunch. Furthermore at least some of the Qassam must be in active mode with burning motor — so we should see a smoke trail (or at night a burning rocket motor). Otherwise the Quassam would be in „ballistic“ mode, meaning „falling down“. Maybe ID rockets catch some burned-out falling Qassam… but always? Never!

Technically. It may be possible to kill a subsonic rocket with another rocket — if the motor is targeted by heat-seeking very-fast missiles… supersonic would be fine. I is nearly impossible to target a ballistic thing with the diameter of a football and therefore a small radar echo. In either way you would need a very precise 3d ground-to-air radar with a ground guided very maneuverable intercept missile and space-and-time to intercept. As I understand Iron-Dome it doesn’t has this quality. Quassam fly low in short range with very short time-window for intercept — it isn’t a good target for a 90% intercept weapon.

That brings us to the question? Why the fake?

First: Hamas and IDF are playing a game — everyone wins. Win-Win. IDF has support from their jewish people for their defense — and Hamas has support from their palestinean people for their glorious „not to give up“.

Second: An ID rocket costs USD 50,000 to 100,000 — US citizens pay for the fireworks. Two israelian companies build the fireworks. We all know that military equipment costs the taxpayer 10 times the real production value it has. So with every ID rocket the US give USD 45,000 to 90,000 to Isreal for „charity“.

So, ask yourself this then. If Hamas' rockets are so small and insignificant, would YOU want one landing in your living room?

They don't have any guidance systems, they launch, and it could hit an empty field, or a car, or a house, or a school, or a military target. They're indiscriminate. And that's the point of taking them out.

Israel may not be fighting fair per say, but they really have no choice. Hamas is hiding the launchers in civilian areas, there is a video from an Indian reporter I saw on here a few days ago showing them setting one up beside a bunch of hotels! That's probably a war crime right there.

Hamas is using human rights as their shield to do whatever they want, and paint Israel in a bad light for responding in whatever way they can. Even notifying Gaza citizens that they are going to attack, in effect giving their plans away. You know the local populace has SOMEONE who runs and tells Hamas an attack is coming. Heck, they probably get the text messages themselves.

I say let them fight it out. All my life all I have heard about is Middle East this, Middle East that. Slug it out. To the victor go the spoils. If Israel wipes out Gaza and the West bank, I'm sure neighboring Arab countries will go after Israel, and they will have to defend themselves. You think that they do not know this? They have been attacked almost non stop their entire existence.

Fight it out. Have at it. I grow weary of the non stop slap fest.

a reply to: poncho1982

Yes it does seem HAMAS gives Israel the right to kill Palestians. So question is who does HAMAS really serve.

According to Charles Freeman, former US ambassador to Saudi Arabia, "Israel started Hamas. It was a project of Shin Bet [Isreali domestic intelligence agency], which had a feeling that they could use it to hem in the PLO."

According to Robert Dreyfuss, author of "Devil's Game: How the United States Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam:
"And beginning in 1967 through the late 1980s, Israel helped the Muslim Brotherhood establish itself in the occupied territories. It assisted Ahmed Yassin, the leader of the Brotherhood, in creating Hamas, betting that its Islamist character would weaken the PLO."

link

a reply to: Zaphod58

The sugar and potassium nitrate home made propellant leaves a smoke trail that can be clearly seen in daylight as proved by photographs.



The warhead if you can call it a warhead as proved by the massive crater, doesn't detach. Its more of a psychological weapon but has killed 40 people since 2001 for those unlucky souls hit by one.



Israel would have something to worry about if US amateur's entered the arena.

originally posted by: Meee32
www.google.co.uk... hits%20youtube&ei=22rjU53yHtKw7AaksIGgBg&usg=AFQjCNELBNzg2B1uN8ePo0BgAnM83P3fWQ&bvm=bv.72676100,d.ZGU

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Meee32

Why would you be able to see a small rocket traveling at high speed with the naked eye? It's not like they have a huge smoke trail to highlight their position.

That's like saying bullets aren't real because you can't see them.

Well, not quite... because a rocket is not a bullet right? Or are you saying hamas rockets are bullet sized?

EDIT: Hmmm finding it hard to find any hamas rockets hitting at all... I googled "hamas rocket hitting youtube"

Sorry my phone puts links at the top on ATS lol... But I found that one...

Anyone else have video of hamas rockets actually hitting?

This one landed a few days ago in the town where I work and made a rather large crater...



I live pretty close to Gaza (less than 10 miles) and have seen incoming rockets at night (or at least the flame from their engine) and I've see Iron Dome rockets intercept them. They are both very real...

To those that think Hamas rockets are just glorified fireworks or bottle rockets, watch the video above and think again.

@HiddenX:

You info is VERY outdated - the 10 mile range you talk about is what Hamas was using over 10 years ago. Their ability has greatly increased. The longest range Hamas missile can reach 150km and carry a 175kg warhead.

I lived in Israel for 2 years, before Iron Dome was deployed (2008-2009) and even then they had rockets that could reach 50+km. When they would land I could feel the vibration from the explosion and hear it as well from my apartment on the 13th floor while sealed in the safe room (Steel reinforced concrete walls, 1" thick steel plate over the window and steel door). I have also seen the after effects - they are no joke and I wouldn't want to be within 200 meters of one landing, preferably even farther...

I moved back to Israel in 2012 after Iron Dome was deployed and Hamas missiles are regularly intercepted near my apartment - maybe 200 - 300 meters or less above me. I don't usually stay outside to watch if I'm at home, but right after the explosions I'll go outside and I can see the incoming smoke trails, the interception rockets smoke trails and puff of smoke where they intercepted. When they are intercepted it usually rattles the windows in my apartment... If I'm stuck outside, I'll duck down behind something but look up and I can see the interceptions.

Iron Dome is quite real and effective. If someone says it only has a 5% interception rate, they are either outright lying or using statistics to lie - If they took every Iron Dome rocket that was launched and divided by every Hamas rocket that was launched you would get a low percentage. But Iron Dome doesn't try to down every rocket, it calculates the impact point to within a few hundred meters (I think) and if it is headed to a populated area it is targeted for interception, otherwise it is allowed to land in an open area... I've heard it is 75%-85% effective at taking out rockets tagged for interception.