The Ornithopter

An ornithopter (a flapping wing aircraft) under development at the University of Toronto's Institute for Aerospace Studies may yet make Leonardo da Vinci's dream a reality. The renaissance genius designed an aircraft that would achieve both lift and thrust with its flapping wings over 500 years ago. Many have tried to make it work; none have succeeded.

Now this is some neat technology. Is it worth it? What efficencies are we talking about when or if this aircraft gets airborn? Neat pics though..

EDIT: Source www.technovelgy.com...

[edit on 4-12-2004 by sardion2000]

Interesting from a purely conceptual perspective, but I can't see a single advantage over conventional designs, and I can imagine a lot of disadvantages.

You'd never get me in one of those contraptions, and I will fly in almost anything...

Impessive, but sadly a complete waste of time and money, its just not feasable to have a flaping aircraft that big. Flapping works best for small things.

talk about wear and tear! this thing is only for show, sure it can fly but its rediculously impracticle.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Murcielago]

Originally posted by Murcielago
Impessive, but sadly a complete waste of time and money, its just not feasable to have a flaping aircraft that big. Flapping works best for small things.

talk about wear and tear! this thing is only for show, sure it can fly but its rediculously impractable.

Yes I agree with conventional technology but what if its Nano based? I think if a plane is built more like say a bird it could be alot more efficient. Think Nanomagnetics will have an impact(you know the fluid that has CNTs in it and when an electrical charge is indused the fuild becomes gelatonous.) Biomimetics is the future of tech design IMHO. Almost everything in the Nano sector was inspired by somthing in nature(except Nanotubes that is )

looks like something that was designed 60 years ago
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My money is on nuclear-powered electrogravitic LaVs for now. Though, I would like to see us expand into biological technologies that involve this form of propulsion. Essentially, growing these aircraft instead of manufacturing them.

In order for something to grow, it needs to have some sort of genetic code. If something grows, it is biological, and therefore a sentient being. However, trying to induce a certain genetic code into an object that would allow it to be formed into an aerial vehical that can actually transport smaller beings and objects back and forth is extremely impractical.

1)The machine, or biological being would require energy to move, and one of mass porportions would easily become tired carring objects back and forth.
2)The work, money, time, and patience required to design the genetic code, implement it, and implement the nanobots would not be worthtaking.
3)Where do you put them?
4)Do you give them a mind? Or have a pilot? And if a pilot, what are the controls for a piloting a biological organism?
5)This is all science fiction, possible, but still science fiction.

I guess it is nice to dream and think of the possibilities. But we need to think of the practical ways for practical life.

But then again it would be awsome to see a giant metal bird flapping its wings carrying people back and forth.

Shattered OUT...

The design kinda reminds me of the OV-10 Bronco, or am I confused with a Similar Co-in aircraft like the IA-58 Pucar�? ofcourse with flapping bug wings dune fans will be excited...

Has anyone ever seen those Fan Wing aircraft? they kinda excited me due to the fact they COULD make flying (for Leissure, I don't mean for travel really) affordable for all of us...

Here is a link about the Fan wing concept: www.fanwing.com...

What it needs is to be full of Imperial Sardaukar responding to an urgent request from the Harkonnens to suppress a Fremen uprising.

Throw in a life-prolonging spice called "melange", some palace intrigue, human computers, giant worms, an obese but ingenious arch-villain, the ability to see the future and a lot of sand, and you've got the premise for an excellent book and a lousy movie...

Originally posted by Majic
What it needs is to be full of Imperial Sardaukar responding to an urgent request from the Harkonnens to suppress a Fremen uprising.

Throw in a life-prolonging spice called "melange", some palace intrigue, human computers, giant worms, an obese but ingenious arch-villain, the ability to see the future and a lot of sand, and you've got the premise for an excellent book and a lousy movie...

This seemes familiar.

Shattered OUT...

I think this type of design is more suited for small micro sized robots not craft large enough to hold people. Many researchers are trying to make flapping wing robots right now.

At certain size scales, it may be more advantageous to use flapping wing flight. Some advantages include higher efficiency, lower mechanical complexity and weight, and simpler control than an equivalent rotor-based system.

news.bbc.co.uk...

huh - Growing Aircraft - that sounds just plain stupid. Not only do I not want to wait 15 years for my plan to grow, but i wouldn't want to have to fly into a rainstorm just because the wings were beginning to wilt. Not only that but if somthing can grow then its alive, so even if we have unmanned planes the tree hugger will complain above an "alive" aircraft crashing.

If what I think is completely wrong, then give me a good credible link.

Hmm, I did say expand which meant when we are more technologically advanced. I would never dare try to predict the future: we simply do not know what it has in store for us. And if biological entities were a waste of time and space, I do not think that we would have been created.

M

You'd never get me in one of those contraptions, and I will fly in almost anything...

lol,i agree what sort of in flight motion would it have?...ive got this mental picture of pilot and crew bobbing along like a wounded sparrow with everyone turning green and projectile vomiting!

more information on ornithopters can be found at the link below. including plans for model scale ones, beats the old paper aeroplanes hands down!!!!

www.ornithopter.org...

Seems they actually got the thing flying! Not for very long but they did achieve lift-off and a short flight before a stuctural problem (a wing articulation point failed) and grounded them last July. They used a model airplane jet motor to add the "extra-jam" they needed for takeoff from a level surface. Amazing. I was over at CFB Downsview last week and they were fixing the wing that buckled in the museum hangar... some speculation that they are "done". Point proved.

Oh yeah, there's video of the flight and a flight sim, and 3-D stuff for the public to access try www.ornithopter.ca It's very interesting although sort of a research novelty in the minds of many... the aero-elastic surface R&D is very interesting.

video link: www.ornithopter.ca...

flight sim link: www.ornithopter.ca... (requires Windows and an app called Flightgear.

3-D link: www.ornithopter.ca... (requires an ActiveX app thingie from Cult3D.

Enjoy!

Victor K.

41'

They get their concepts all backwards as usual.

I did a little studying on this back when I first read _Dune_ as the idea of a flapping wing contraption seemed ridiculous but the kind of machines they described sounded more like VG kitplanes or ultralights than full scale aircraft and so 'flapping' could be seen as being strictly for VTOL enhancement.

Turns out, what you WANT to do is make a rotary mechanism and 'fluff the feathers' of a _fixed_ wing with either a fenestrated fan or VERY fast bleed air driven flap.

Using an ejector system like that the XV-12, as soon as you drop the ridiculously heavy winghinges and start blowing over individual slit fenestrations (like blowing across a piece of paper) you get /massive/ increases in useable powered lift which a slot can further enhance with suction displacement on the downbeat.

I doubt it would work efficiently for a manned application but for a small UAV, yes.

Whether it's worth the mechanical complexity now that we are moving towards SDLF and similar remote-posted systems in full scale airframes...ainh.

For military applications, my solution to VTOL is going to be fly further and stay longer. That solves the basing mode vulnerability problem and the 'but they are too far away to be useful when we need them!' one.

For handlaunch recce and the like there are simpler gliding solutions but the nice thing about my equivalent to a 'thopter is that you can mount a relatively low power to weight microturbine in a deep discus or torroidal planform body formed from thin plastic and have a HUGE centerline mission volume, simply because the main body is acting like a conch shell plenum which accumulates, distributes and meters air for a few moments on a non reversible pressurized loop. And then for the rest of the flight is providing forward cruise thrust with perhaps a tenth the total thrust. And no overwhelming total fan mass spinning through the center of gravity and thus all your possible MEP volume.

Temperatures could be a problem but using aluminum or brass photoetch for the hot flow areas and working (blown) surface/hinges or even electrodepositing very thin layer of gold or silver straight over the plastic plenum itself could perhaps give sufficient thermal resistance for short cycle operations.


KPl.