Russia pulls plug on 'last independent TV show'

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

Yeah, im skeptical about that. There is too little context behind your statements and it isn't good enough.

These are my opinions, based on what I know of Russia and its history. I could support my analysis at length, but it would be an off topic digression.

Russia fares better when it isn't interfered with or provoked by outside forces, isn't slandered, sanctioned spied on looted and robbed of it's integrity.

The usual litany of revanchist justification of imperialism.

Llooking westward doesn't have to mean abandoning traditional Russian sentiments.

I agree, but Putin does not seem to share that opinion.

Those very sentiments are what makes Russia so strong, what gives Russians their communal bond.

Putin does seem to share that opinion.

There is nothing to support your claim that Russia is a weaker nation when it looks inward.

Let's see... Nicholas II reversed the liberalizing trend of his predecessors, insisting on maintaining his imperial powers rather than moving towards a more republican form of government. The result was the Russian Revolution. The Bolsheviks withdrew from the war in Europe, and engaged in an internal Civil war instead. On the other hand, there is a reason why every Russian (save the Old Believers) call Peter "the Great." Peter single-handedly did more to modernize Russia than any other individual, and he did it by importing western ideas.

The country is vastly underdeveloped, meanwhile its billionairres and oligarks who profited from mass looting after the fall of the Soviet Union own the finest real estate in cities all over the world and live luxurious lifestyles without a care in the world for the interests of their homeland.

These are, of course, the Oligarchs who comprise Putin's "inner circle," and are the target of sanctions.

As for Putins character, you do a good job of making him look like an evil paranoid dictator, but i don't buy it. I will look into the incidents you have mentioned but until i learn more about them I reserve judgement.

Putin does a better job than I do at making himself look like an evil, paranoid dictator. Please look into the incidents I have mentioned, and ask yourself what manner of person he really is.

a reply to: midicon

That is not how the drama unfolded. The whole expansion thing comes directly from the USA.

And Crimea isn't considered an expansion of/for Russia?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Timely thread OP. For all those poster out in ATS land who support Russia ask yourself why would they do this. Russia is a Oligarchy run by men who could care less about freedom or the people. Citizens of Russia are nothing more the pawns being used to further this Oligarchy.




And before you come back with the good old so is the US argument........The US is run by and Oligarchy that could care less about the people. And the mainstream media in the US is government controlled.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

And Crimea isn't considered an expansion of/for Russia?

What do you suggest Russia should have done...let the USA create another Syria on its doorstep. You only have to look at the history, ecconomic ties, strategical importance...not to mention the black sea fleet etc...

The USA has funneled 5 billion into the Ukraine over the past decade and promoted their own brand of democracy. They have no democracy only hypocrisy. Don't get me wrong Russian politics aren't any better but the situation in Ukraine should be seen for what it is.

a reply to: midicon

What do you suggest Russia should have done...let the USA create another Syria on its doorstep.

So instead, Russia created another Syria on its own doorstep. Your belief that the US has been "funneling" money into Ukraine for nefarious purposes is due to you taking Russian propaganda at face value. Outside of Russia, it is possible to trace these distortions to their original source and place them in context. This is no longer possible in Russia, which is the actual topic of this thread.

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: Xcathdra

Timely thread OP. For all those poster out in ATS land who support Russia ask yourself why would they do this. Russia is a Oligarchy run by men who could care less about freedom or the people. Citizens of Russia are nothing more the pawns being used to further this Oligarchy.




And before you come back with the good old so is the US argument........The US is run by and Oligarchy that could care less about the people. And the mainstream media in the US is government controlled.

But your remarks don`t disprove if the measures are taken on behalf of Russia ( and by so, maybe also for the good of common man )...

...all you`re implying is that because Russia is an Oligarchy, the measures are taken on behalf the oligarchs, that might be the case, but at the same time the oligarchs might have a common beneficial with the Russian ordinary people to keep Russia stable...and by so, it would not be against the common people of Russia...

So where is the proof it is against the common man, I fail to spot how trying to keep a country stable is such a bad thing...?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So where is the proof it is against the common man, I fail to spot how trying to keep a country stable is such a bad thing...?

So... you have no problems with Hitler's propaganda and death camps, provided they kept Germany stable? Personally, I consider any attempt to keep a population ignorant a violation of their basic human rights.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So where is the proof it is against the common man, I fail to spot how trying to keep a country stable is such a bad thing...?

So... you have no problems with Hitler's propaganda and death camps, provided they kept Germany stable? Personally, I consider any attempt to keep a population ignorant a violation of their basic human rights.

We are talking about Russia, bringing Hitler into the equation just as if we are talking about the same thing, is just demonizing.

...so there`s not a single place on this earth where basic human rights aren`t violated, well you`re right if you put it that way, but why the anti-Russia when it`s done everywhere on this earth ?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: midicon

What do you suggest Russia should have done...let the USA create another Syria on its doorstep.

So instead, Russia created another Syria on its own doorstep. Your belief that the US has been "funneling" money into Ukraine for nefarious purposes is due to you taking Russian propaganda at face value. Outside of Russia, it is possible to trace these distortions to their original source and place them in context. This is no longer possible in Russia, which is the actual topic of this thread.

Since when is Victoria Nuland a Russian propagandist ?

Victoria Nuland Admits: US Has Invested $5 Billion In The Development of Ukrainian, "Democratic Institutions"

www.informationclearinghouse.info...

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

We are talking about Russia, bringing Hitler into the equation just as if we are talking about the same thing, is just demonizing.

Don't sidestep the question. You raised the point that, essentially, the end justifies the means. It is all right to deprive a population of knowledge if it helps keep a "country stable." Is stability more important than honesty? Is stability more important than basic human rights? I am not "demonizing," I am engaging in reducto ad absurdum; if keeping a country "stable" is more important than the inhabitants' basic human rights, a tyrant can justify any crime in the name of "stability." If you don't like the Hitler reference, substitute Stalin or Abdul Hamid. What, in your opinion, did they do wrong? Or does "stability" justify their actions?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Since when is Victoria Nuland a Russian propagandist ?

Victoria Nuland is not a Russian propagandist. Russian propagandists have taken a single speech she made in front of a specific audience and quoted it out of context.

Victoria Nuland Admits: US Has Invested $5 Billion In The Development of Ukrainian, "Democratic Institutions"

WRONG! Victoria Nuland boasts that the United States has invested $5 billion in genuinely developing democratic institutions in Ukraine. Not guns, missiles and goons as Russia has been doing in eastern Ukraine, but in NGOs dedicated to bettering the lot of Ukrainians.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Since when is Victoria Nuland a Russian propagandist ?

Victoria Nuland is not a Russian propagandist. Russian propagandists have taken a single speech she made in front of a specific audience and quoted it out of context.

Victoria Nuland Admits: US Has Invested $5 Billion In The Development of Ukrainian, "Democratic Institutions"

WRONG! Victoria Nuland boasts that the United States has invested $5 billion in genuinely developing democratic institutions in Ukraine. Not guns, missiles and goons as Russia has been doing in eastern Ukraine, but in NGOs dedicated to bettering the lot of Ukrainians.

Where is the proof of both claims ?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

We are talking about Russia, bringing Hitler into the equation just as if we are talking about the same thing, is just demonizing.

Don't sidestep the question. You raised the point that, essentially, the end justifies the means. It is all right to deprive a population of knowledge if it helps keep a "country stable." Is stability more important than honesty? Is stability more important than basic human rights? I am not "demonizing," I am engaging in reducto ad absurdum; if keeping a country "stable" is more important than the inhabitants' basic human rights, a tyrant can justify any crime in the name of "stability." If you don't like the Hitler reference, substitute Stalin or Abdul Hamid. What, in your opinion, did they do wrong? Or does "stability" justify their actions?

If is saves lives and keeps the standard of living much better, of course it`s justified.

a reply to: DJW001

Wrong they made Germany unstable, because it was for imperialist gains. Putin is not an imperialist, Hitler was, USA is! That's the key differences, and that's why Russia is scared of what might happen if they allow propaganda to be spread against their government. I'm not saying its right I'm saying that's the objective truth of the matter without biased anti Putin or anti Russian conjecture floating through... I hapen to disagree with this measure, but I do understand and sympathise with it given the severity of the geopolitical situation unfolding around the world in the past few years & now on Russia's doorstep in Ukraine. Seeking to undermine and destabilise Russia at this time is incredibly dangerous for the whole world, and if it gets worse europe will get very ugly not too soon. The NWO based in washgton doesn't care about little people they care about their own interests, to them, to the NWO, we are all expendable!

a reply to:

"The usual litany of revanchist justification of imperialism."

How is protesting against unprecedented anti Russia hostility equate with revanchist arguments for imperialism. I feel you are intentionally misreading my words.

When I said "Looking westward doesn't have to mean abandoning traditional Russian sentiments."
Perhaps i should have explained that traditional Russian sentiments in my opinion are inward looking, not as a way to be isolated or hostile to others, but as a means of strengthening mutual russian kinship particularly in their harsh climate (throughout the natural course of Russian history). This is how I perceive the truth of the Russian people. Their country is so large that being inward looking is actually a significantly important thing as it develops... Europe has always been very jealous of Russia as a country who was not subjected to the extreme horrors of the inquisition imposed on catholic Europe during the European dark ages.....this too is an extremely significant historical thing.... This is reason why the tsar's resisted western influence, because they understood how morally and spritiually corrupt europe had become over the centuries of catholic imperialism..

"I agree, but Putin does not seem to share that opinion."
Yes, actually he does, he knows the truth of the Russian people... He is aware of their common heritage and outlook. For the NWO Russian centrism is a threat to NWO centrism (internationalisation of culture - which is unsustainable, and the world is not ready for it, only the elites are).... what i meant by looking westard was trade and mutual friendship, not becoming a member of some military alliegance or undemocratically controlled Union like the EU. Trade and mutual friendship is the cornerstone of russias foreign policy, I challenge you to debate me on this head to head... (We can aska mod, they will set it up)... You think you know your history, so show it....

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

If is saves lives and keeps the standard of living much better, of course it`s justified.

You just agreed that Hitler's program of extermination was justified. Goodbye.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

If is saves lives and keeps the standard of living much better, of course it`s justified.

You just agreed that Hitler's program of extermination was justified. Goodbye.

Saving lives is something totally different as to extermination, how the # can you turn those 2 around ?

Let me explain what you`re basically saying :

- You`re choice would be to have freedom of information, even if it costs lives and quality of living of people

No let my explain what I have been saying :

- I would much rather be kept in the dark but still have living family members and a good quality of life

And I`m the one who`s anti-life...?

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

So is Russia that fragile because of media or that fragile because of the lack of leadership Putin shows?

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa
How does one acquire the largest contiguous land based empire in history by "looking inward?" The Tatars did not join up with Russia because Russia was so enlightened, Russia fought a war with other powers to conquer them, the Crimean War. Your ignorance of Russian history is a perfect illustration of how tyrants use the control of information to manipulate their subjects.

a reply to: DJW001

Thats because the Tatars and the Ottomans wanted to conquer Russia, what would you have done? Let them mobilise and crush Russia?