Eastern Demons: Oni's

I have kind of been getting a bit interested in the Negative Mythical Creature Lore in Eastern Mythology, finding some relation to the belief of these mythical creatures, however Im kind of going one at a time. Not to sure if it fits into the forum, so if it gotta be moved to a more suitable place, be my guest.

BTW, No Aliens.

Oni's

Oni's originate from Japanese folklore and have a major impact on the culture, and have many different depictions about them. Supposedly Oni were they originally are depicted as "Invisible Spirits" with no form, where the actual meaning of Oni in its Japanese Character means "Hide", or "Conceal". Said to imported from "Buddhism", they were believed to be Evil Spirits where they could be considered Imps in a christian sense, although they could of been depicted as ghost haunting or infesting sacred places.

However, the actual meaning for Demon in Japanese is "Akuma"( One of the Bad Asses from Street Fighter) or even "Gouki" which means "Great Demon". They then at some point in time were given forms or better yet "Anthropomorphized", with a much more man eating, intimidating appearance, ranging from Orges, Trolls, and were said to be devours of men physically. Or even in the afterlife sense where they could be considered Demons from Hell, dragging evil spirits down.

Oni's traditionally do seem to vary depending on the times, where they could be considered in various ways as mentioned earlier where they originally are invisible spirits from a buddhist hell, to spirits that cause natural disasters, or being a mythological beast with varying intelligence's according to whatever belief relate to Oni's. Where they could be very dimwitted creatures with an extra head or a limb, sometimes no feet, and can be only slain by "Samurai", and an Oni with a club was said to be invincible to defeat . While others could be believed to be elemental like "Rajin & Fujin" which are more modern personified depictions of Thunder and Wind(or even thunder and lightning)to even being "Kami's"(Japanese for God).

A yearly celebrated tradition that is held by some villages in Japan, is said to ward them off by throwing soy beans, and having a Monkey statue is said to guard against them. The Japanese word for "Monkey", which is said to be "Saru", meaning "Leaving". They however, have lost much of their negative meaning in Modern Japan and have rather become idols that ward off evil. It very similar to the use of "Garyogles " in medieval Europe, Imp like creatures that were believed to ward of evils spirits, or possibly capture evil spirits like it was cat and mouse.

The mighty Samurai are also influenced by Oni's, which was most likely a psychological factor in combat, especially in such superstitious times since their armor was made intentionally to look like one.

Oni's do share some similarities to the Greek mythological beast, known as the "Cyclops". A giant creature that is said to be a man eater as well, but are in different stories in that mythology. Where some vary importance, like the ones that were responsible for making weapons for the Gods in the "Titan War", which is somewhat almost a creation myth in that culture. Another myth creature I find it shares some similarity with is the "Minotaur", although I don't think the Minotaur has the eat your soul aspect, just more brutally, brutalizing aspect.

Oni's could also share a character element with a more biblical creature, like the "Nephilim" due to being giants, as well as man eaters. What also interesting, more so in Japanese lore, is that there really is no such thing as Angels, just multiple Gods. They also are very similar to the Islamic "Jinn", and possibly "Ifrit".

Oni's share many traits with various mythological creatures, whether big or small in value or according to the beliefs. They can be typically viewed as demons, but in today's world, they are nothing more then monsters under the bed or a Troll guarding a bridge .

good work
i found the eastern term "ogre" to be interchangeable with the western term "demon"
(also often reported as 'man-eaters')
it seems in their literature & modern media there was a stigma with using rigid western terms like heaven, God, etc

..in the end we're left with the same story across the world

The nicest Oni of them all.

uruseiyatsura.wikia.com...

a reply to: UNIT76

What also interesting and funny, if the word Oni is translated to Russian, it means "They" in plural.

a reply to: Specimen
Its a thing people do, believes and ideas both good and evil are just the plus and negative side of a battery, powering there conceptual manifestations, which is a way of personifying things which exist in men's minds and souls, the things we attribute to them change as we change and come to understand both the world and ourselfs better. What your talking about is a thing of myths and mythologies, all of which are merely colorful tapestries to our personifications which we like to attribute characteristics to of which we hold in ourself.

There are many things you should beware in this world, but the only demons you need to fear in this dimension are called humankind. You see this world may not quite be a hell, but it could be, and has been so before, and the majority of the entities which get entrapped in here are from the lower stratum's. Without constant effort and vigilance and maintenance the world you like to call earth, could quite literally go to hell.

Also an Oni with a club is not invincible, that's a myth, sure there hard as hell to defeat, but it can be done.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Idk, their greek cousin seems pretty relentless.

I do like the belief and the ideologies that were conceptualized as well as personified. Whether they be psychological weapons used by ancient man, on ancient man, or just primitive ideologies. Whether they were that smart or not.

The worlds been threw worse for stupider reasons.

a reply to: Specimen

Not necessarily they can also be outlets. Ask yourself this, why do people go watch scary or bloody movies? And you will likely have your answer. Also oni in general are not thought of as the same in japan or the east as we would think of demons here in the west, what influenced by Christianity and such. I would say its more akin to ancient believes such as the ancient Greeks had with all the gods, monsters, and demigods in there pantheon.

Like you said at one time they represented the fears of people both warrior monk or farmer, as such over time they became sort of a charm used to deal or put up with all the surprises the unexpected or life throws at you, its one of the reasons why samurai armor was decorated like it was the facemask and everything, when they donned it and went to battle, it was just a way to remove yourself from you as a flesh and blood human and step into a place were such things dont matter. In a way it was a metaphysical armor as well as a physical armor.

Now a days the whole oni thing its taken to mean something that is not quite human, something that is more, something which can go beyond and above, were most people would fall and falter, no matter if its good or evil. But hey like you said, its all different meanings and interpretations. But speaking of oni and akuma, you know in most peoples heads it brings one of the most popular pop culture characters to mind.

"Where I walk, I walk alone. Where I fight, I fight alone...Gouki"

a reply to: Specimen

Often these giants are symbolic for the old order. Man constantly has to conquer and has. Including self. But we cannot completely throw away the past so we have the cyclops giving us weapons to defeat itself(other giants the titans). We keep a couple of the Asuras in our Deva pantheon. Agni being one of them who corresponds with haephestus which the Cyclopes were his helpers. Also Associated with the hecationaires. Hecate being the female primordial principle that was left as a rudiment of the past. These ancient archetypes were demonized as empire evolved. Women were put in their place and the divine feminine was turned into a demon.

Sorry on my phone. I can connect the dots better tomorrow. You can see the same with the Aesir and Vanir in Norse myth. Asura deva is Hindu and Zoroastrian. Gods and titans is the Greek. Israel and Canaanites. Look at chthonic deities and how they are usually associated with evil and mischief but hold a place in the hearts of the people so are kept around. Hecate being the big one. The bronze serpent is a carryover or vestige of ancient chthonic religion.

i remember having a pleasant conversation with you a while back.. about layers & layers of information.. and how at some point they have to be incorporated into a foundation or body of knowledge

*snip*
Not necessarily they can also be outlets. Ask yourself this, why do people go watch scary or bloody movies? And you will likely have your answer.
*snippety snip*
But hey like you said, its all different meanings and interpretations.

philosophy is called masturbation of the mind for a reason, it seems..
i think we can appreciate where you're coming from back there
'not necessarily, can be & likely'
..the word used was 'outlets', which implies more than once, habitual, sustained & selected (*chosen*)
something not found once through mere curiosity alone..

to me (someone who's established a little foundation) aka: "bible nut", i can't help but wonder ..how many possible interpretations might there be for watching a porno movie? (or making one)

this is getting nice & abstract now (or is it?)

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

It depends really about the view of Oni's, since they originally started of as invisible spirits that would cause disasters, to being displayed as full out brutes of a paranormal nature. And yes, they share some akin with various creatures in different mythologies, and vary among in importance. Now a days, it is said that Oni's are heavily in Japanese proverbs and idioms.

And yes, Oni's were the Idols of fear in Japan, were warriors would try to impersonate one, and make themselves look like they transcended the flesh. The Samurai even have a club weapon called the "Kanabo", which was again inspired by the Oni.

The kanabō was also a mythical weapon, often used in tales by oni (Japanese demon) since they were reputedly extremely strong.[8][9] Today there is a saying in Japanese: "Like giving a kanabō to an oni" — which means to give an extra advantage to someone who already has the advantage (the strong made stronger).[10] A western rendering might be 'like adding fuel to a fire'.

Or even how Monk had to be rid of their fear of and/or becoming one, or where a un-educated farmer would always blame their misfortunes on one. And you are very correct about how Oni are usually used as a meaning going above and beyond.

The characters appearance Akuma is very heavily based of the Oni's, however, the murderous intent, which is where the character get his strength is kind of more based from a Buddhist element, due to his lust for combat and power.
Another interesting thing, is that the Oni's in japanese could represent two creatures from Buddhism, the Asuras, and another one which is much more related to the Oni, "Rakshasa".

Although again, it varies on the folklore, or even how the proverbs are used. Much like how the idea of selling ones soul to the devil to ether gain riches or powers, although Oni are both loved and feared.

a reply to: zardust

That kind of why I've been somewhat interested in the Oni', since there are many different varieties. You look other creatures and they have their counter parts, where in hindu, and buddhism, it Asuras and Devas.
Oni's however could be as powerful as Kami's, while others could be very dimwitted.

Giants seem have to important roles in various mythologies even in the bible. Much like David and Goliath, or even a much more believed myth on ATS like the "Nephilim", where these giants were believed to be Fallen Angels.

Although in Norse mythology, the main battles of the Gods were not Aesir or Vanir. It was the Frost Giants, like Ymir, or more larger then life creatures like Fenrir who killed Odin in Ragnorak.

a reply to: Specimen

couldn't help but notice the mention of asuras & rakshasa back there (another testimony to the fact that the same thing seems to pop-up everywhere else anyway)
a bit like the norse mythos just here, that same epic giant-battle (surtur & ymir) is echoed in a middle eastern tradition that has behemoth & leviathan duking it out at the last day (not to mention other similarities where various deity-figures are broken into pieces & later 'reconstituted', or slain on world-tree's for the sins of the world)
uhh, anyway, fwiw that's kinda what i was rambling about here earlier..
thanks again for starting the topic, another morlock hole leading to a myriad of related studies

Another Character whom I found interesting, and somewhat relates to the depiction of an Oni, is Hercules. Even though Oni`s share a depiction view with Cyclops or Orges.

Although the character was the son of Zeus, and had a human mother, the character is very well known for his size & strength, that rivaled giant creatures and feats like holding the sky for the titan Atlas. Although the character is somewhat known for being a dim wit as well, bringing bad luck for some villages for his bravodo, since no could judge him. However, unlike how the oni are perceived, the character became more of a hero in it depiction, moving away from abusing his gift, to showing virtues in early christian ideas after the formation of Christianity.

Another character, albeit more so in Judaism and Christianity that share a similar trait with the Oni and Hercules is Samson.

He too, had incredible strength, and was a giant of a man. One of his famous feat, is that he used a jawbone of an ass(donkey) as a club to slay an entire army. Although I am kind of unfamiliar with him.

All three are awfully similar due to the fact of having enormous strength and solving their problem with giant club. Although, I wonder whos importing who?

a reply to: Specimen

i've been following all this because that's just how i roll very.. i think you've presented everything well here, and objectively too O_o
..since it's quiet here just now, at this stage in the game i think samson & hercules/herakles whatever are all synonymous (uhh, for lack of a better term) ..i think (have found?) everything (all this symbology) repeats in layers along these roads unless one decides to intentionally crash into that important wall you mentioned back there..

whos importing who?

i think this is what that "foundation" a certain nutbag on a certain mountain was rambling about..
all to do with trying to establish a moral-base in amongst a slew of interpretive esoteric mumbo-jumbo that teaches people to do what they want (don't even have to preface that one with "i think")

this isn't the rant section so i think i'll leave it there.. (thanks again for starting the topic, it's the kind of stuff i'd be citing in little research links etc)

rare, banned, illuminati, 100% proof, comment, rate, subscribe, JFK speech: "i think people will ultimately have all sorts of things to opine on where this (the info in the OP etc) all leads to & i think that's great (kisses baby/cue presidential fanfare) but someone once said when in doubt, go with your heart, not your head ..i think maybe it was c3po? "

a reply to: UNIT76

All believes are outlets of sorts. I am not religious in the least, but all religions are outlets in there own ways. So yes there are many delusional people who use there outlets as guidestones for there lifes, in fact pretty much everybody does it one way or another or in one form or another. There is no abstraction here, what you have is a specific species of deluded hairless monkeys who like to play make believe to justify or give meaning to there existence.

As for the whole samurai armor thing and why its made to look like oni, well when your planing on taking somebody's head it not only good physical armor because the same people who made the swords made the armors, but a good way to step outside of what you are and role play. And all of war is roleplaying, in the west the most common used and liked is the good vs the bad. In ancient feudal japan were they were less concerned with such silly concepts, well they devised more elaborate ways to play out human nature.

a reply to: Specimen

True I suppose, abut everything is influenced by everything. The more mysterious phenomenon is why some things are so similar even when they were created ages apart and with no contact or no discernible influence on one another. Now a days with our high speed internet and more so connected world we can see that. As for the whole akuma thing, as you know they generally have different versions of him, in the latest version Street Fighter 4 if you played that game, he literally turns into oni as his final form. But yes while here in the west such things are more concerned with good or bad, things are a bit different in east or especially ancient east were all these concepts were formed.

And even things like power have different meanings, for instance like you say akuma is basically single minded, he only cares about combat and power. But unlike others its only focused on himself, that is to say he follows a code, he does not kill incandescently like your typical demon or evil doer would, general he only fights those he thinks would be a challenge or those who challenge him. And considering he lives in a cave on his own island, its not like he is concerned about worldly power or power over others, he is only interested in one thing becoming stronger and transcending the mortal coil even if it means his death. Which really is just the whole Buddhism thing only done in a bit different way. I suppose there are just permeations of our psyche and believes even ideology, come back in a few hundread years and things will likely change or mix and match to suit the moods and believes of the peoples of those times.

a reply to: Specimen
Ha! Nothing is true everything is permeated.

I have about a 2 foot scroll made of wood wall hanging, which depicts club carrying Heracles around here somewhere. I got it from my cousins years ago when me and my family visited them in Greece were they life and work. I cant find it right now, but its around here somewhere. The same thoughts came to me when I saw it, the dude Heracles I mean looks like a bruiser if he was a real life man he looks like he would be about 300 something pounds of muscle and rage, not somebody even if he was not a supposed demi god who you would want to piss off, trust me with a big blunt object like a big freaking club you can do some serious damage to somebody even if they are armored head to toe, never underestimate a man with a big ass freaking stick and the damage he can do.

Here is a internet picture I found of the Hercules which is depicted in the wall hanging I have, or had, its somewhere around here, somewhere. You can even see his bashing club and his lions head helmet/cloak on it, Turns out its called Farnese Hercules a roman copy, of some supposedly original Hercules statue from ancient Greece.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Yea Oni is supposedly Akuma, but much more into the Dark Hado. They even have Evil Ryu, who also looks like some what of an Oni as well. Although the common believe of Oni was ether spirits of destruction, or haunting. Im guessing the Dark hado idea is kind of more based from Buddhism, and is more related to the Asuras(even though Asuras are most likely from Hinduism).

The Asura in a Buddhist depiction followed the trait of the Seven Deadly sins, and were addicted to these desires, and Buddhist are heavy believers of Re-incarnation. Its considered a punishment to be reborn as an Asura, and they were depicted as titans as well.

Anyways a little off-topic there...

Heracles is a very old, yet still a popular myth. The most popular story, as Im sure you know of, is the 12 labours. Where he tries to get some retribution for a sin, which kind of seems biblical in a sense, demonstrating traits that a big dumb orge of a man, drunken with the blood of a god, probably was as dull as the club he used.

Samson, however, was kind of different in Judaism, as his story had a lot grudges and rivalries. Even though he strangled a lion, and uses a club to solve his problems, much like Hercules.

Another interesting plot to their story elements is how Hercules dies, but he is reborn by his thundering Father as a God, while Samson dies...In a traditional...Biblical way.

As for how the stories got around, it could of been just from lone travelers, probably meeting foreigners or something and some cultures adopted them. Which is evidence how the Asuras were taken from Hinduism, and into Buddhism. And how in Japan Oni and Asuras are pretty much interchangeable.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

i think you present the matters in a skewed way.
that "religion" would be more accurately described as the entire mass of water, not the little outlet hole in the dike.
..that's why some claim

all religions are outlets in there own ways

and that's why

many delusional people (who) use there outlets as guidestones for there lifes

what's not to understand about all this?
you know the dammed water (hehe) represents the subconscious
and you know we are what we eat (what we put in the dam)
religion is something *lived* not just turned on & off via a faucet or stopped/unstopped by a finger in a little hole *rimshot*

as for the "abstract" O_o
i really hope there is someone or something out there keeping track of the exchanges between you & i
because we've been abstract before & i've no desire to repeat the process again
(repeating processes, going over layers & layers & layers & layers, same thing as last time)
at least you seem to be lifting better material have learned a thing or two

True I suppose, abut everything is influenced by everything.
The more mysterious phenomenon is why some things are so similar even when they were created ages apart and with no contact or no discernible influence on one another

both of those things (and more) were essentially what was being presented last time
feel free to grey goof this place up, it's all zombie bagels at the edge of the universe these days

here is a rather different Oni from modern japanese anime. The Oni has challenged the gate keeper (Hong Meiling) of scarlet devil mansion from the Touhou game universe to a fist fight out of curiosity and boredom. This Oni doesn't look scary at all.




the youtube reprint has english subtitles if you click the cc button on the bottom of the player.
in case the video embedding did not work here is the direct link: www.youtube.com...