IRS Strikes Deal With Atheists To Monitor Sermons And Homilies

a reply to: beezzer

That seems to be the most logical solution, but I wonder what it would do to the small churches in our communities. I may be an agnostic, but I would fear that many of the poorer/small churches would slowly die out and the only churches left would be the "for-profit" mega-churches.

I don't see that being good for the religion if the motivation is profit...not the teachings of the religion.

Does that make sense? Had a long day.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: sheepslayer247

When government starts using tax-exempt status as a carrot/stick motivator, then we're basically screwed.

The only solution? (in my humble opinion)

Eliminate tax-exempt status. EVERYONE PAYS!

That way there is no conflict to what can or cannot be said.

I'd agree except, as I said, the money a church gets is pretty much all donations and as such has been taxed once already.

How about we abolish the IRS and come up with a different tax system so the political punishment can't be played anymore?

a reply to: sheepslayer247

It makes perfect sense. The smaller churches are sometimes the very best ones because they aren't concerned with themselves as much as the message.

a reply to: sheepslayer247

Small church, small business, both the same in my mind. Both take in money from customers. Both use that money taken in to grow their "business".

Perhaps people, to avoid the issue with taxes and churches, could just meet and pray. I don't want to confuse the issue of faith vs organized religion.

But this attempt to stifle opinion in a vehicle for faith is disgusting, in my humble. . .

double

a reply to: ketsuko

"I think he is alluding to the fact that the devotion most believers assign to God is directed instead to the State by some unbelievers (or whatever their cause du jour happens to be).

Dear ketsuko, This is a most interesting reply. Do you suggest that your conviction of truth is more deeply grounded that that of the typical unbeliever? Do you actually believe that "the State" plays a significant role in the philosophy of unbelievers?

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: sheepslayer247

When government starts using tax-exempt status as a carrot/stick motivator, then we're basically screwed.

The only solution? (in my humble opinion)

Eliminate tax-exempt status. EVERYONE PAYS!

That way there is no conflict to what can or cannot be said.

I'd agree except, as I said, the money a church gets is pretty much all donations and as such has been taxed once already.

How about we abolish the IRS and come up with a different tax system so the political punishment can't be played anymore?

The money you spend at the corner store has already been taxed.

Just sayin'

If I could believe this would be applied to ALL churches claiming tax exempt... It wouldn't bother me much... but I see no reason to believe the IRS wont use this as an excuse to take punitive action against certain groups.

a reply to: Diderot

Actually, not exactly. I am saying that we all have a need to believe in something. I think it's a part of the human condition. When you choose not to believe in a higher power, you tend to attach that need to something else. Some people put their faith in the state, some people put it in some kind of cause, some people put it very fervently into their atheism. But pretty much everyone I've run across has assigned their faith, their need to believe, to something in their life.

So, I don't know what you've attached your faith to, but you've attached it to something and it grounds and informs your the same way my faith in God grounds and informs me. The better choice you make, the more stable you are likely to be I think.

a reply to: beezzer

Mainly due to my job, I've rubbed elbows with many different types of people. One of them is a minister from my area.

He lives a very meager lifestyle, barely survives off of what the church provides and even throws in his 10% in to the offering plate.

I once asked him why he decided to become a minister and he said that God told him that was his calling. Not a truck driver, or a business man.....God told him to teach the word.

You know me Beez, I'm a softie at times and I would hate to think that we squash this man's "calling" all because of taxes.

a reply to: sheepslayer247

Is there a point that can be reached where the religious gathering turns purely political? Should politicians who receive money directly from churches report that in their FEC reports?

There is concern for small congregations, and for good reason! I'm very worried about the megachurche s with 'Aviation Departments'. It's outrageous.

How far is too far for these churches to go?

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: sheepslayer247

When government starts using tax-exempt status as a carrot/stick motivator, then we're basically screwed.

The only solution? (in my humble opinion)

Eliminate tax-exempt status. EVERYONE PAYS!

That way there is no conflict to what can or cannot be said.

I'd agree except, as I said, the money a church gets is pretty much all donations and as such has been taxed once already.

How about we abolish the IRS and come up with a different tax system so the political punishment can't be played anymore?

The money you spend at the corner store has already been taxed.

Just sayin'

Which is why I am for a different tax system. I like the idea of the Fair Tax or just a straight up Flat Tax.

I am afraid that just abolishing tax exempt would wind up being done punitively.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

HOBBY LOBBY isn't an enforceable government function now is i? I can walk away and so can YOU the IRS is a system politicians have abused for decades.
WE know the game that is played here.

originally posted by: seeker1963
Will this just target Christian churches?

yes.

What has been bothering me is how quite a few atheist have basically created their own religion of non-belief and take pride in hammering away at anyone who believes in a deity [or deities]. So by preaching their "it offends me" or "it violates my religious freedom" mantra, they are pushing their lack of belief on everyone else. I know people of all sorts of religious beliefs or lack in them. The atheist seem to think that their lack of belief entitles them to not have to hear about any type of faith. Yet they seem to go after those espousing christian ideals with the most energy. As a agnostic I find the whole religious bickering pathetic, but I would prefer to allow the freedom to follow god, allah, odin or Cthulhu[He who sleeps] as the individual wants as long as no harm comes from the faithful. The fact that the article names churches...Link

A 2009 court ruling determined that the IRS must staff someone to monitor church politicking.

The FFRF claims that the IRS has not adhered to the ruling and that the settlement amounts to enforcing both the Johnson Amendment and the court ruling.

Seems like only certain religions will get the monitering and we all know it will be the ones that support certain political views.

How far is too far for these churches to go?

Kind of the rotten apple syndrome.

Power and greed of the mega churches makes policing their practices necessary and causes a trickle down to smaller churches, who are just doing their thing and minding their own business.

Religion being its own enemy.

Don't blame it on the non-believers who say Whoa! Abuse/over-stepping going on.

a reply to: ketsuko

"So, I don't know what you've attached your faith to, but you've attached it to something and it grounds and informs your the same way my faith in God grounds and informs me."

Dear Ketsuko, This is where the rubber hits the road!
To me, faith is a non-rational conviction of truth.
I do not have faith that the square root of 4 is +2 or -2.
I might have faith that my mate loves me come hell or high water.
I believe in the theory of gravity, but not through faith.
Faith is a type of belief that is grounded in non-rational conviction.
Please be aware that non-rational is not the same as irrational.
Your faith in God is non-rational.
I intend no offense.

a reply to: Diderot

So you have attached your faith to rationality.

Let's pick on the most chairatable organizations in the world.