Passengers on airliners do not have parachutes...why?

originally posted by: Catacomb
a reply to: thesmokingman

The Lockerbie disaster had people still alive on the ground...don't tell me everyone would die instantly. That's simply not true, and would only be true in a total catastrophic explosion of immense size.

Really? This is the first I am hearing of this.. Care to elaborate?

It isn't unheard of to survive a fall from extreme height, mind you, but even so...

a reply to: Catacomb

Three of 259 were found technically alive. All three died shortly after being found, one before help could get to her, and the other two as far as I've ever heard before they left the scene. They said that one MIGHT have survived if they had been found immediately after the crash.

According to statistics, in crashes where the aircraft didn't break up in flight or explode on impact, almost everyone survived the initial impact. It was the post crash fire, and trauma from their injuries that caused the deaths. In the other two categories, parachutes wouldn't have made a bit of difference.

a reply to: Catacomb

Technology isn't stagnant. Air travel is now safer than it's ever been, and there have been entire years with almost 0 fatalities involving commercial aircraft. But you want to make it 100% safe, and the problem is that there is no way to do that, with any mode of transportation.

originally posted by: Catacomb
Then engineer a solution instead of using 100 year old technology that states, "oopsie, in the case of depressurization, you are all dead."

What is your suggestion to prevent the effects of depressurization at altitude on the human body?

How about every seat acts as an ejection seat, in the case of a catastrophic failure of the plane? Oh wait...I forgot...that would cost money to R&D, and implement.

Brilliant idea. Give everyone an chair with explosives under it.

a reply to: Catacomb

The majority of the people aboard Pan Am 103 died as a result of severe multiple injuries at different stages. In plain english this means they were literally crushed, hit, ripped apart and cut to death. People were killed as the aircraft disintegrated, as it hit ground, and some had been thrown from the aircraft fuselage during integration and at impact.

Most bodies fell in clusters. About 60 victims fell near Lockerbies famous golf course at the towns east end. About 50 bodies landed together with the fuselage in Ellen Ramsdens garden.

Some bodies were found in trees, some inside fragments of the plane, others lying spread-eagled in the mud. Death had reached them quick but violent. Some of the people aboard the aircraft have been conscious about their final fate all the way down.For some of them the fall took almost 2 minutes - the lack of oxygene in the uppe spheres might have let people meet death unconsciously, some might have regained consciousness when falling further down into oxygene-rich atmosphere. 2 bodies could not be identified. 658 bags of human remains are still to be identified.

Only one woman survived the accident. But not for long. Scottish rescue workers found a woman on the ground with a pulse.

plane-truth.com...
One woman survived, and not for long. I am sure her final minutes were hell. The above description shows exactly how chaotic it would be upon break up. Definitely no way a parachute would help in this scenario.

Economically I think it would be more worthy of study the fact that buses don't have seat belts...how much would it cost to put seatbels on every single bus? But it isn't even about the money, sure, they could build into every seat a self-sufficient life pod...but what happens if one goes off in mid-flight? tears through the skin of an aeroplane, you would need some kind of explosive right?...it's just not practical from many different angles.

originally posted by: Catacomb
Then engineer a solution instead of using 100 year old technology that states, "oopsie, in the case of depressurization, you are all dead."

How about every seat acts as an ejection seat, in the case of a catastrophic failure of the plane? Oh wait...I forgot...that would cost money to R&D, and implement.

An ejector seat on every one of the 300+ seats? This would add huge amount of weight in the first instance, not to mention the fact what exactly are you going to do about the fuselage in the way? And ejectors seats can kill you too, their not a pleasant experience even for trained fighter pilots and often have them in hospital for a good length of time afterwards.

WE had Parachutes taken off the 135 and the E-3 why... Boeing proved to safely egress the plane you had to fly straight and level, if you can fly straight and level you can land.

On top of that the speeds a 777 is flying you have a higher chance of survival riding it in I would almost guarantee, also how would you open the doors and which door would you bail out of?

I have never gone through a rapid decompression at 40k but I did at 26 thousand it wont kill you instantly you will be unconscious pretty quick at 40k though.

at 21 thousand feet in the altitude chamber off Oxygen I was about 5 mins before I had trouble thinking clearly.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
Brilliant idea. Give everyone an chair with explosives under it.

Haha, good point - no need for those terrorists to try and figure out a method to smuggle them on, just look under the seat!

originally posted by: Catacomb
How about every seat acts as an ejection seat, in the case of a catastrophic failure of the plane?

I've seen cases where trained people have accidentally ejected themselves out of a plane, or have blown the canopy off, and almost shot themselves out of the plane. And you want to give people a five minute or less training period, and trust them with ejection seats?

Not to mention the traumatic injury ejection causes. Ejecting from a plane has caused paralysis and even killed people, as well as permanently making them shorter. They've spent weeks recovering from it in the hospital. And if it turned out someone ejected when they didn't have to, what then? Who's responsible for that? The airline? The person in the seat?

Forgot to add, something else I learned while training for an FE position, in the event of a crash (assuming your alive of course) if a Fire has started get out of the plane any way you can your living on borrowed time, I was told depending on the age of the plane you have 45 seconds to just over a minute to get to fresh air before the fire's smoke becomes toxic and kills you.

im taking my parachute on as hand luggage,and if that plane starts going down IM OPENING THE DOOR AND JUMPING if your silly enough to get on a plane with no parachute dont whinge at me,and yes i have been skydiving and just to let you know you have to jump several times to allow your brain to get used to jumping as it can be disorientated as chemicals are released by the brain when you jump a wrist altimeter would also be very handy.... but the point the op made about them not caring is absolutely right ,military jets have ejector seats but as a airline passenger not one ,to many seats you say well thats not true, they could have large ejector platforms where whole sections could be ejected then parachutes open and safely landed ,before you say not possible...have you not seen tanks parachuted into battle link.. the fact airlines dont care is still true or there would be passenger ejection platforms , the tech excists and has for years .

a reply to: Irishhaf

My father actually had a case where everyone but the AC and copilot pulled the bar (the one over the crew door in the cockpit), and jump after they started having all kinds of problems on the way back in. The AC and co went on to land the plane, while they had to send a helicopter out to pick the others up.

originally posted by: Catacomb

originally posted by: Fylgje
I actually came up with a solution to this in 1989; All airplanes need to be designed in a way that each seat is a bubble pod/parachute. It would look like a clear, plastic ball. If the plane was going down then the top would blow off the plane and all pods would escape. If they landed in water, they would float and be supplied with oxygen and other emergency supplies.

It could be done no matter what altitude but do you think that elites give two #s about people?

Something like that is exactly what I am talking about. Why is technology stagnant? Oh yeah, because every penny counts in the pockets of people who DO NOT CARE.

Cost.

Cost of the R&D to develop such a system.

Cost of putting said system together and testing it over and over.

Cost of building brand new aircraft with that system.

Cost of buying said craft.

Cost of maintaining that equipment.

Every single bit of that cost will be passed on to the consumer that is flying, when they go to buy their tickets.

Have you seen how much it costs to fly now? Even with aging aircraft fleets, the fuel for those jets keep going up, and so do the tickets. When was the last time you flew? How much did your tickets cost? Think about the difference between short flights and global flights, and what they cost.

Now think of how much those tickets are going to cost after all of the above is done, because that cost will be passed on.

No one except the very elite would be able to afford to fly.

People could always demand we go back to using passenger ships, trains and buses I guess. Might cost less. Be slower though, and most humans are in too much of a hurry.

a reply to: stuthealien

If the aircraft is still pressurized, good luck getting the door open. It's pressurized to where you can't open it in flight, even if you're strong as hell.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Modern commercial planes generally are looking at around 90-120 seconds for flashover.

You actually have a good chance of survival in plane crashes despite what things seem. People who actually die in crashes are the first class and second class people near front of plane. Yes thats right the safest place is the cheapest seats. Everyone jumping out there would not be enough time and their shoots would tangle together. This is not a conpiracy its a safety precaution.

originally posted by: Aural
You actually have a good chance of survival in plane crashes despite what things seem. People who actually die in crashes are the first class and second class people near front of plane. Yes thats right the safest place is the cheapest seats. Everyone jumping out there would not be enough time and their shoots would tangle together. This is not a conpiracy its a safety precaution.

Depends on the aircraft. Over the wings is usually the worst place to be since you are sitting above the fuel tanks.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Depends on the cause of the crash, type of impact, and where you crash too. If you hit and the wings rip off, it doesn't really matter as much. If you hit in the water and start to sink immediately, over the wings is a great place, because you have the exit row right there.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
Depends on the cause of the crash, type of impact, and where you crash too. If you hit and the wings rip off, it doesn't really matter as much.

True.

If you hit in the water and start to sink immediately, over the wings is a great place, because you have the exit row right there.

How many successful commercial emergency water landings have there been? I only know of the Hudson River occurrence.