Hamas fires rockets toward Israel after terror group rejects truce

originally posted by: MrCynic
a reply to: Rosha

Check definitions and reality for the situation there. This isn't Palestine. This is Hamas.

#1. Gaza is not occupied. It hasn't been occupied since 2005. Israel went through hell with it's own population almost ready to overthrow it in the forceful removal of Jews from their own homes inside the Gaza settlements. When they left, occupation ended. Something worse began, but that came a bit later, after Hamas threw the PLA out of power in 2007 and took Government control of the Gaza Strip with it's population.

#2. They absolutely DO have a military wing and it's bordering on delusional to suggest they don't. Hamas has been and remains a militant organization with one primary focus. As outlined in their own founding charter documents. The total elimination of Israel and everyone in it. This conflict has seen full production missiles being used for the first time in Gaza carrying a range well into the North of Israel. That is a military weapon system. It is not the system of a rag tag rebel group.

If things have moved to the next level, Hamas supplied the step ladder to get there.

#3. What Israel has done in their handling of Palestine is horrible. What Hamas has done to actively bring the war upon themselves and turn the siege of Gaza into a full blown shooting gallery with their population as the ducks, is far worse. They are willing to lose every battle if they win their version of a war. I don't think the population they are willingly putting out for loss fully agrees with that approach and it makes Hamas as terrorist today as they were before taking power of the Gaza Government.

Israel doesn't have to be right for Hamas to be wrong. This is a situation without heroes and no white hats left to wear on either side.

Did you read a single debunked myth on the page I linked? No? Everything you write here has BEEN DEBUNKED AS IDF MEDIA SPIN AND LIES.

And while you continue to make excuses for occupation and murder, your beloved Israel just attacked SHIFA HOSPITAL
FULL of dying and injured, CHILDREN

a reply to: Rosha

If you are reading media for your sources of information, then we have little common ground.

The opinions I have formed come from watching the past events referred to happen in real time, during those past years. The spin on rewriting history now is extreme and nonstop. The history as it was when it was simply called the news of the day is quite a different thing.

I don't have the sympathy for terrorists and murderers that some do. It appears both sides have some people who would qualify as murderers. One side celebrates them and encourages more of it. The other discourages it as much as possible. One side needs good Public Relations to continue and the other feeds off bad news like their lifeblood.

Hamas is a bad news organization. When Hamas no longer stands to lead Palestinians, the Palestinians may have a chance at living rather than existing. Until then, the population of Gaza are the playthings for bloodthirsty terrorists who use them daily as targets for the PR war while on a stated mission to obliterate 7 million people.

originally posted by: MrCynic
a reply to: Rosha

If you are reading media for your sources of information, then we have little common ground.

The opinions I have formed come from watching the past events referred to happen in real time, during those past years. The spin on rewriting history now is extreme and nonstop. The history as it was when it was simply called the news of the day is quite a different thing.

I don't have the sympathy for terrorists and murderers that some do. It appears both sides have some gAZAwho would qualify as murderers. One side celebrates them and encourages more of it. The other discourages it as much as possible. One side needs good Public Relations to continue and the other feeds off bad news like their lifeblood.

Hamas is a bad news organization. When Hamas no longer stands to lead Palestinians, the Palestinians may have a chance at living rather than existing. Until then, the population of Gaza are the playthings for bloodthirsty terrorists who use them daily as targets for the PR war while on a stated mission to obliterate 7 million people.

You, and people just like you, are the reason this will never end. One eyed ignorant drones of the zionist lie.
Israel is committing suicide right now, and you know what...I'm done imploring it stop and seek a better solution. After the bombing of this hospital...it can go right ahead.
I'm done.

a reply to: Rosha

I see your position on this. The idea of lies and half truths are something both sides of this conflict are very familiar with though. Hamas and Israel both lie. They both spin. The trick is looking beyond the lies and spin to see what the actual motivations are and what end result will satisfy either side of this thing.

Now you refer to lies and I will refer to what is no lie. The outright and very clear statement of purpose to eliminate Israel and those within it.

This opens the Hamas Charter and founding document of 1988:

In The Name Of The Most Merciful Allah

"Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic world is on fire. Each of us should pour some water, no matter how little, to extinguish whatever one can without waiting for the others." (Sheikh Amjad al-Zahawi, of blessed memory).

Yale

The charter is a long document with many articles worth reading. Those are simply the opening words. As long as that stands as the declared mission statement of the Governing body for the Gaza Strip? Peace is simply not possible for the Palestinian or Israeli people.

One side is dead set and committed to killing everyone else at the table.

Ben-Gurion (the primary founder and the first Prime Minister of Israel) said he wanted to "concentrate the masses of our people in this country [Palestine] and its environs."[26] When he proposed accepting the Peel proposals in 1937, which included a Jewish state in part of Palestine, Ben-Gurion told the twentieth Zionist Congress, "The Jewish state now being offered to us is not the Zionist objective. [...] But it can serve as a decisive stage along the path to greater Zionist implementation. It will consolidate in Palestine, within the shortest possible time, the real Jewish force, which will lead us to our historic goal".[27] In a discussion in the Jewish Agency he said that he wanted a Jewish-Arab agreement "on the assumption that after we become a strong force, as a result of the creation of the state, we shall abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine."

I dont defend Hamas but it kinda seems Israel is pushing to this ultimate goal....

and if the reports turn out to be true about Israel bombing the most advanced hospital in Gaza then im sorry but this is a war crime directly violating the Geneva Convention and Sanctions should be implemented at the very least. If it turns out to be true.
But im not concluding anything yet, and if it was Hamas then they have sealed their fate...

we'll see what happens..

originally posted by: MrCynic
a reply to: Rosha

I see your position on this. The idea of lies and half truths are something both sides of this conflict are very familiar with though. Hamas and Israel both lie. They both spin. The trick is looking beyond the lies and spin to see what the actual motivations are and what end result will satisfy either side of this thing.

Now you refer to lies and I will refer to what is no lie. The outright and very clear statement of purpose to eliminate Israel and those within it.

This opens the Hamas Charter and founding document of 1988:

In The Name Of The Most Merciful Allah

"Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic world is on fire. Each of us should pour some water, no matter how little, to extinguish whatever one can without waiting for the others." (Sheikh Amjad al-Zahawi, of blessed memory).

Yale

The charter is a long document with many articles worth reading. Those are simply the opening words. As long as that stands as the declared mission statement of the Governing body for the Gaza Strip? Peace is simply not possible for the Palestinian or Israeli people.

One side is dead set and committed to killing everyone else at the table.

This doesn't mean what you think it means. When they say, "Islam will obliterate it," they mean that the spread of Islam will consume Israel from within and if peace were to happen today, that's exactly what would take place in the not so distant future. Israel's demise is in it's DNA as a democratic Jewish State. It can only remain both a Democracy and a Jewish State if it keeps the Palestinian population in check with periodic ethnic cleansing, or as Israeli's like to call it - "mowing the lawn."

Hamas is not a threat to Israel. Palestinians having children is. It's why they rejoice in the killing of children.

Israeli's in Tel Aviv chanting: "There's no school tomorrow, there's no children left in Gaza! Oleh!"



Every nation has a right to defend it's citizens. What no nation has a right to defend it's ethnic purity through the murder of children.

originally posted by: robertalvinlewis
Every nation has a right to defend it's citizens.

Except Israel, according to Hamas and its supporters! Thousands of rockets fired by Hamas terrorists at Israel over many years...

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: robertalvinlewis
Every nation has a right to defend it's citizens.

Except Israel, according to Hamas and its supporters!

I've literally never heard one single person say that in my entire life. You just made that up.

originally posted by: Rosha

originally posted by: Humanity72
Israel as a sovereign nation has no choice but to protect it's citizens which is pretty much priority number one of a nation. When the enemy you are fighting hides weapons in schools and targets civilians there really isn't any choice you have to eliminate the treat because nothing is off the table for the Hammas.

5 Israeli talking points debunked
www.thenation.com...

That article is written by a Palestinian author hardly unbiased.

a reply to: robertalvinlewis

This doesn't mean what you think it means. When they say, "Islam will obliterate it," they mean that the spread of Islam will consume Israel from within and if peace were to happen today, that's exactly what would take place in the not so distant future.

I might believe that if I hadn't read the rest of their Charter documents and listened to Hamas leaders as well as their spokesmen over the years. The idea that Hamas is no threat to Israel and their opening words mean obliteration in some figurative way is put to the lie by the rockets and missiles being fired right now and so many times in periods before.

Hamas makes no bones about their desire to see Israel removed by force or the hand of Allah, whichever works first for them. I respect their forthrightness and honesty when it comes to their own nature and purposes. It's like the tunnel issue. A major tunnel into Israel discovered recently wasn't denied by Hamas. They simply berated Israel for claiming credit after finding it.

They are straight forward if people listen to them directly.