(VIDEO) Mass shooting avoided when hospital gunman is shot by good guys with guns

originally posted by: HauntWok
a reply to: mindseye1609

Gee, you can't carry your gun in a bank, I can't imagine why! /sarcasm

How do we know the "hero" wasn't the shooter to begin with? Cause he said so?

Wild west mentality.

Gee, I can't imagine why a law abiding person would want to carry when he goes into a bank, perhaps because those are places criminals like to rob people and that criminals like to rob people who are carrying money? Naw, couldn't be.

a reply to: HauntWok

You sure do whine about people having guns a lot. If your not gonna actually put the work in to change things there is no point in whining about it.


Peace.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

Depends on state law.

So far I've found one state that prohibits guns in financial institutions and oddly enough it's Montana

So maybe that story about it being some old Wild West law was true.

Bizarre.

I'd still just CC personally.

originally posted by: thisguyrighthere

originally posted by: NavyDoc

Depends on state law.

So far I've found one state that prohibits guns in financial institutions and oddly enough it's Montana

So maybe that story about it being some old Wild West law was true.

Bizarre.

I'd still just CC personally.

Shrug. You know what they say--concealed means concealed.

Not much effort into talking the man out of the situation. It seemed like he was alone in a room. I suppose the new paradigm is if someone has a gun, shoot them as quick as possible.

The EasybakeGunClub. Bet there are some real sane gun slingers there.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Gee, I can't imagine why a law abiding person would want to carry when he goes into a bank, perhaps because those are places criminals like to rob people and that criminals like to rob people who are carrying money? Naw, couldn't be.

More likely people wanting to keep their options open whether or not to rob the bank themselves.

originally posted by: HauntWok
a reply to: NavyDoc

Gee, I can't imagine why a law abiding person would want to carry when he goes into a bank, perhaps because those are places criminals like to rob people and that criminals like to rob people who are carrying money? Naw, couldn't be.

More likely people wanting to keep their options open whether or not to rob the bank themselves.

Nope. CCW license holders are law abiding lot.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Nope. CCW license holders are law abiding lot.

Till they aren't:

www.vpc.org...

Yep, law abiding lot indeed.

a reply to: HauntWok

So without reading the incidents and reports and just taking the vpc's numbers at face value we have a grand total of 1,344 644 people killed in 7 years. (actually 644 in 7 years. vpc's counters are redundant)

Not sure how often you get out but 1,344 deaths in 7 years time is essentially statistically insignificant.

More people died today from food allergies.

ETA: I'm reading some now. Lots of domestic violence. Which means a knife, bat, rock or fist would have done the same job.

I reiterate my old cry to ban relationships. That would save lots of people.


ETA again: Seeing a few negligent discharges in there too. Not exactly criminal. Just stupid. Cant get too upset when stupid people kill themselves.


3rd edit. The vpc's counters are redundant so subtract 644 from my previous total. So the actual number is 644 in 7 years.

this had nothing to do with good gun holding civilians, every person in this video who was holding a gun except for the criminal had POLICE across there backs, simply just undercover's doing their job.

originally posted by: HauntWok
a reply to: NavyDoc

Nope. CCW license holders are law abiding lot.

Till they aren't:

www.vpc.org...

Yep, law abiding lot indeed.

Your link, if you read down further says this:

Above is the current tally from May 2007 to the present of killings involving persons with concealed carry permits or who committed a killing in public with a legal handgun in a state that allows concealed carry without a permit (Alaska, Arizona, and Vermont allow the carrying of concealed handguns without a permit).

So, based on that, they are counting LEGAL SELF-Defense.

They don't use any sort of official "source" except the media. We all know how accurate the general media is.

I'd say your source is less then accurate. 131 mass shootings over the last 7 years? Hmm, "mass shootings" is pretty ambigeous.

a reply to: thisguyrighthere

hmmmmmmmm i just looked it up and it doesn't say anything about financial institutions....

Michigan's concealed carry law is "shall issue," meaning that anyone 21 or older may obtain a license to carry a concealed pistol, so long as the person is not prohibited from owning a firearm, has not been found guilty of any felonies or certain misdemeanors within a time period of either 3 or 8 years dependent upon the charge, and has completed state-approved firearms training. Concealed Pistol License (CPL) holders are not required to obtain a license to purchase a pistol; however, they must fulfill the registration requirement (a sales record of the pistol acquisition). Under Michigan law, carrying a concealed pistol under a CPL constitutes implied permission for chemical testing for illegal drugs or alcohol; and it is strictly forbidden for someone with a concealed pistol license to carry a pistol while on drugs or alcohol.

Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises: schools or school property, public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency, sports arena or stadium, a tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises, any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons, an entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more, a hospital, a dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university, and casinos. "Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above. Openly carried firearms by CPL holders in most of these locations is generally lawful, it remains unlawful for anyone without a CPL to carry openly in these places without written permission from an owner or agent of such locations.

hmmmmm im gonna go dig out all my stuff from the class and see if that was part of it. i remember my instructor really making a point about that and going on and on about how easy it is to forget you have a small pocket piece in so be careful.. idk il report back.


just a little note. the "entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more" does include movie theaters according to one cop i asked after the CO incident... i think id rather argue the logistics of that after the fact if anything happened personally.


ETA: hmmm i just found my paperwork from the updates in october 2012 and the bank isnt on there either. i got mine in 2011 so il have to see if they changed it in or something AND I'm gonna have to go see if my bank has a sticker on the door and if not I'm gonna have to have a word with the lady who told me i could carry in there.


either way awesome i feel better about the bank now, i always thought that was asinine to not be able to carry in a place people come rob with weapons every day lol

a reply to: Cygnis
Hi. I just wanted to post a reply. I work in a hospital, and this is my greatest fear, for many reasons. I will cover a few on how and why things like this can happen. It certainly will not cover everything, or, I would be writing a book!

First of all, hospital emergency rooms used to be one of the biggest suppliers of illegal, prescription narcotic drugs in the country. Addicts and drug dealers would frequent emergency rooms, often more than one in a day, up to two or three, lying about ficticious illnesses that were impossible to prove. Such as vague complaints, back pain was a frequent one. They would obtain their prescriptions for 10 to 30 days of narcotic pain meds, go to a pharmacy, and then off to the next emergency room, rinse, and repeat. If the patient was not the addict, frequently finding ways to inject these drugs, snort them, or just massively over self medicate, the drugs were often finding their way to being sold on the streets for insane amounts of money. One pill of certain meds often costing on the streets from 20-30 dollars per PILL. It was the largest supply of illegal narcotics on the streets in the US.

Well, of late, the past 12-24 months or so, most emergency rooms across the country have adopted new policies. No narcotic pain med prescriptions will be given out anymore. Period. Some emergency rooms will give one to three days, just enough to get to your regular physician to obtain a proper prescription. Between that, and pharmacies across the country now linking together and tracking same name users buying multi narcotic prescriptions within certain timeframes, then refusing refills if the refills are too close, this is causing serious problems for addicts with both obtaining drugs for self medication, as well as illegal street sales. Also, many narcotic drugs now, are being compounded with a substance that makes them non-injectable. This has also had a tremendous impact on the life and times of many addicts.

Now, having covered that aspect, we have the end of life issues. No more are doctors willing to meet the demands of families that insist, often times, that they "Do everything possible". Sometimes, a person is going to die. It's just a fact, they have reached the end of their life. When the doctor and social worker sits down and has a family meeting, and tries to explain the loved one has reached this point, there is simply nothing more that can be done, there are people who will obviously go into denial. Aside from attempting to provide emotional support, a chaplain, or a hand to hold, people go through the stages of grief. One of them, after denial, is anger. This stage is frightening, because most people will turn it inwards and blame themselves, or perhaps even the patient. Sometimes, however, they may blame the doctor, or hospital staff. Aside from an occasional anecdotal story where those people may really be to blame, usually, it is just the fact of life, and death. We all are going to die. Some people just hit a bad spot when it comes to that, and things like this video, are the result. It's rare, but it happens. One such story I can think of is an elderly man who was told his wife of 65 years was dying. He shot her, to put her out of her misery, then himself, because he just could not imagine life without her. This is turning it inwards. Would have been much different had he decided to blame to nurse, or the doctor. We all remember the recent case of the brain dead little girl, perfect example of denial, and just imagine how badly that could have gone, had a gun been introduced into that story.

Lastly, and perhaps the most frightening of all to me is gang related violence, or assault type of attacks. These happen, and the hospital attempts to hide and protect the patient. There is always the fear that whomever did it will come back to finish the job, if they find out the person is still alive. Sadly, in today's age, people talk too much, take pictures, which in itself is illegal, then post on Facebook, revealing not only is the person still alive while the police may have intentionally lied to the media reporting them dead in order to protect their life, but then, they tell 500 of their closest friends what hospital they are in, and what room. This totally defeats and attempt to protect that patients' life. It is impossible to completely isolate, and hide someone in a hospital when social media takes its toll in such a manner. No matter how many times you explain the purpose of using a fake identity, invariably, the lower the socioeconomic status, ie: gang violence and revenge killings, the more likely 500 people will know exactly who, what, where, when, and how, in less than an hour.

After having been there, done that, and having had to move a patient 3 times in one day, we literally had gang members carrying God knows what, roaming the hallways looking in every patient room on the unit. The threat, or even presence of police did nothing to thwart their efforts to attempt to find their victim, fearing he may talk to police.

Heck, even in high profile cases, we have had the media, who are prohibited, doing the exact same thing for a story. One case in particular, we had 8 media people roaming our unit looking for a patient in a high profile case, only because the news media had released a story that the patient was there. HIPAA be damned, they wanted pictures, video, the story, enough to violate the privacy of all patients. The police presence, however, DID work on making them leave.

It is a frightening place to be, because like the girl in the video behind that counter, many of us have nowhere to run, we are sitting ducks. At least she had a place to go. I am wide out in the open, no place to hide, but under a desk anyone can walk around.

Even when we go on lock down, its laughable, as employees who are clueless, from security, to housekeeping, to respiratory therapists, even doctors, will swipe their badge and let people in, or, people will piggy back in behind someone that swipes in. Even if we had a way to notify staff, it defeats to purpose of having a hidden patient.

There is simply NO way to provide 100% safety. We have even had police guards in a room, and had people walk straight in and start altercations.

We live in a frightening world, and if I could carry at work, I promise you, I would. However, weapons are forbidden, and I can't risk losing my job. It's a really hard place to be and I live it three days a week, 52 weeks a year.

a reply to: thisguyrighthere

Cox also said people cannot
carry a weapon while at a bank drive-through.

This makes absolutely no sense. So fine. You have a passenger, dump them off next door, "Here, hold my gun while I run to the bank drive thru!"

Seriously, what are you supposed to do with it if you are alone? Does it count if you unload and drop it in the trunk? What if you simply forget? Bam, felon. Wow. Reminds me of yet another reason I don't patronize banks in person, if I can avoid it, which is almost always.

Besides, in most states, I thought your car was an extension of your house?

How is anyone going to know your gun is in your car, unless you brandish it?

Just a bit confused by this, in Montana of all states.

a reply to: Libertygal
I don't think that is legal. Your vehicle is your property, how can driving through your bank, or wendies or whatever change that? As far as I know even wack places like airports cannot claim that crap, I left guns in my car at airport parking many times with no problem.

a reply to: mindseye1609

Good. Never take anyones word for anything. Whether it's a measly employee, a cop, a lawyer, a politician, some anonymous guy on the Internet, whoever.

Always question everything and look for the statute.

Way too many people think they know what they're talking about and just as many people are all too willing to assume that those other people really do know what they're talking about.

Always check the statutes.

But a cop shot him so what's the story?