ISIS Blows up Jonah's Tomb in Iraq

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: demus

This pretty much puts these guys solidly on my bad list, most of the time I can see both sides, but these are radical Islamic terrorists destroying churches and mosques, it sounds pretty destructive, like chaotic evil harbingers of death or something. And they do it while spreading the word of God, to top it all off.

A tomb is a symbol of idolatry, something strictly forbidden in their interpretation of Islam. They're not doing it because they want to be jackasses, they're doing it because their religion tells them to. That doesn't make it right, but it's their line of thought.

This is not accurate, I'm afraid. No Muslim is religiously obligated to stop the "People of the Book" from doing their thing. It is expressly and frequently forbidden. Islam is a bit like Judaism in that we have obligations different from other faiths. The Western Christian model tends to view religious matters as being important to impress on everyone, but Islam is concerned with what Muslims do.

"Idolatry" doesn't apply if nobody thinks the place itself is God or is like God, anyway. So even attacking the masjid is really, really strange. Decoration, art, beauty, all this is perfectly Islamic and always has been. God tells Muslims to appreciate and enjoy the beauties of the world, to make prayer beautiful in remembrance of the bounties of the world, and just don't start thinking these are what's really important, so adornment, architecture, precious metals and gems -- none of that is considered idolatrous.

originally posted by: myselfaswell
a reply to: darkbake

Reminds me of this story from 2001. The Taliban; Destroyers of Ancient Buddha Statues.

Source Here

An absolute demonstration of the cultural void that fundamental Islam is in reality.

And we all know what happened shortly after the above event.

Kind Regards
Myselfaswell

You know what cracks me up about this?

Everyone in the world got upset at this...

Except the Buddhists.

Buddhism be like, "You blew up the Buddha? That's funny I killed him on the road on my way here."

a reply to: myselfaswell

And who empowered the taliban? Why does the US continue to finance cultural backward minorities with weapons and training to destroy nations? Could it be so US capitalism can invade their lands.

do people in america riot and take actions against CIA (an american org) ? Up to date ISIL fulfills american interests, also destroying history and there are numerous of arrests, of isil members and most of them are americans/cia

Lets stop looking at the smoke and deal with the fire and that is CIA.

Some news that I didnt bothered to post, kourds, also start attacking Turkey, because everything pops out from the turkish borders and there is proofs that through Turkey, isil gets their weapons, their agents, everything. 3 days ago, kourds made an ambush and killed 7 turks and injured a bunch of turks, because they tried to pass materials to the ISIL and guess what, all of them where oficial military from turkey! link

So now turkey lost also the peace treatment they had with Kurds.

a reply to: TheTengriist

I fully understand your point and realise the dichotomy between Buddhists and the western world.

The point, and I suppose why people were upset, is the loss of a record of humanity, Buddhist or otherwise.

If you don't maintain a solid record of the past, how do you determine that you're not just running around in circles ?

Kind Regards
Myselfaswell

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: TrueBrit
Why would they wish to destroy such a site? What are they going to do next, nuke Mecca? I fail entirely to understand the motivation for this sort of action. Surely blowing the place up, destroying all the ancient relics and architecture, is counter productive to their stated cause?

Either the artifacts are heresy and detract from the worshop of Allah in which case they need to be destroyed or they simply reiterate what the Qu'ran states in which case they aren't needed. That's their line of thinking.

And it goes deeper than that considering who the prophet was and his mission being to a non-Israeli people. yea that's right, he was an Israeli prophet sent to another nation, a traditional enemy of Israle, and that nation turned from their ways. Thus the prophets hearers represent a gentile nation that obeyed the god of the Israelis. That idea certainly has aggravated some in this day and age. One of the other Israeli prophets even said, speaking for God, Syria and Egypt are mine". What that means has been a matter of debate even though it seems clear enough.

originally posted by: sepermeru
a reply to: demus

I know who gains, but what do they gain?

What, as you say, might they be seeking to find, or to destroy?

Ur, Uruk, Kish, Nippur, Ninevah, Samarra, Akkad, Damascus, Alep, Mari, Babylon, Eridu, Nimrud, Nuzi, Parsagadai, Persepolis, Nicaea, Tarsus, Hebron, Jericho, Jerusalem, Byblos, Sodom, Gomorrah, Tyre, Samaria...

these are only some of the historical cities in the region where we see some "events", I would say disruptions...

is it only a coincidence?

we need to see broader picture, and it is big.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: darkbake

This is utterly disgraceful.

Why would they wish to destroy such a site? What are they going to do next, nuke Mecca? I fail entirely to understand the motivation for this sort of action. Surely blowing the place up, destroying all the ancient relics and architecture, is counter productive to their stated cause?

Their version of Islam holds that all relics, places that highlight any person, etc are forbidden - they hail from the same school of thought that saw Moslem tombs in Mecca destroyed....so yeah...they would blow up Mecca....or those bits of it they disagree with.

This is and extreme religion - rational thought has nothing to do with it!

FYI - the Wahabis in Saudi get to demolish Mecca bit by bit using the increasing size of the Haj as an excuse (see the substantive article linked from there) - but their teaching is that these can lead to veneration and idolatry, and ISIS pretty much agrees with that.

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Wahabiism started as an 18th century revivalist movement, much the way hellfire-and-brimstone fundamentalist Christianity is a fairly modern invention despite claims to reversion. While it can be a legitimate sect, what ISIS is calling Wahabiism is...not. I'll try to draw up a Venn diagram to show where they do overlap and where ISIS is doing and saying stuff unique to them. It could be a cult form, but it's new as far as I know despite their claims of greater authenticity.

a reply to: darkbake

I think ISIS are a very dangerous group.

The whole Middle East is wrapped up in an ever more complex and interwoven web of duplicity, hypocrisy and outright barbarism.

In spite of ISIS's dubious and secretive origins I think they are very much a loose cannon and no side now seeks to align themselves with them.
They are a particularly poisonous thorn in everybody's side and they need eradicating very quickly.

They are also poising to take over Rome.

Really?
How?
I think that's a bit of a stretch at present.

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

The Wahhabi's may have originally helped found and organise ISIS, but they now fear what they spawned.

I bet they never touch anything that has money coming in from tourism like the Sphynx and pyramids.

a reply to: Djarums

The Buddhas are exactly what came to my mind in seeing this. I'd caught an earlier video of them sledgehammering the tombs and desecrating the site. That was enough to feel ill by watching. To see the blast which utterly destroys this site is like a punch to the gut.

As you say, priceless history and more. Our human heritage, now lost forever. Why? The petty hatreds and agendas of a militant organization in our modern times. What would those who formed the tombs have thought to be shown a vision of how their efforts would end some day? What will the generations a decade or century forward think, looking back at what they only have photographs remaining to see, then?

Wanton and hate fueled destruction like this strikes me as a war crime all it's own, and should be recognized as such in my humble opinion. It truly is a crime against humanity and our collective history.

a reply to: Aazadan

Well surely then, if these artefacts are not necessary because they merely back up the word of the Qu'ran, then neither are the reams of 7.62 ammunition ISIS have expended, the murders they have committed in the name of their faith, the territories they have taken, or the laws they are instituting in those territories!?

I find their particular thought processes in this specific regard, utterly beyond reasonable examination.

I agree with glend on this one.
This has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with keeping passions inflamed, countries destabilized and keeping the military/industrial complex churning along.
These ancient monuments belong to all mankind, nobody has the right to destroy our history this way.

a reply to: igor_ats

I bet they never touch anything that has money coming in from tourism like the Sphynx and pyramids.

Not sure how reliable this source is but it was widely reported at the time;

english.alarabiya.net...

Well, I remember reading a couple weeks back on here that ISIS had a new target in mind, Mecca. Now, can you even imagine what would happen if ISIS destroyed that holy site... Oh lordy, we may see actual hell on Earth then...

Yes, I post this on the ninth

posted on Jul, 9

ISIS Is About to Destroy Biblical History in Iraq -
www.abovetopsecret.com...
And yes they want Mecca



The shrine of the Prophet Seth (Shayth) was also destroyed

How ISIS Pillages, Traffics And Sells Ancient Artifacts On Global Black Market
www.ibtimes.com...

Say goodbye to Mecca (Ka'ba)......ISIS threat

www.abovetopsecret.com...

ISIS is leaving a path of destroyed churches, shrines and mosques in its wake as it storms across Syria and Iraq, and has even set its sights on Mecca -- Islam's holiest site.



The message from ISIS:



"By Allah's leave our sheikh al-Baghdadi led Mecca stone for those who worship (pilgrims) will kill you and God ' I will tear down the Ka'ba, the place of worship,” the alleged ISIS militant said on the social media site, according to reports from Turkish media adding that those of the Islamic faith should not be worshipping 'stones.'"

www.abovetopsecret.com...


ISIS destroys shrines and mosques, may be targeting Mecca

www.foxnews.com...

Gaza Salafists pledge allegiance to ISIS
www.al-monitor.com...

originally posted by: glend
Islamist blowing up mosques and Jonah's Tomb! If I didn't know any better I'd think these terrorist weren't Islamic at all but a paid militant group hired to ignite peoples hatred against Islam. But as we all know the media doesn't lie does it. If it wasn't for the media replaying the WMD mantra a million times we would never have got all that WMD out of Saddam Hussein hands .

ISIS Trained by US military

To answer your question read this.


US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’
www.mercedsunstar.com...

U.S. diplomats and intelligence officials made clear that the United States had been closely tracking the al Qaida spinoff since 2012,

The testimony, which received little news media attention at the time, also showed that Obama administration officials were well aware of the group’s declared intention to turn its Syrian sanctuary into a springboard from which it would send men and materiel back into Iraq and unleash waves of suicide bombings there. And they knew that the Iraqi security forces couldn’t handle it

He acknowledged that the Islamic State is no longer just a regional terrorist organization but a “full-blown” army that now controls nearly 50 percent of Iraq and more than one-third of Syria. Its fighters have turned back some of the best-trained Iraqi units trying to retake key cities, while in Syria, it’s seized nearly all that country’s oil and natural gas fields and is pushing the Syrian military from its last outposts in the country’s east.

“What started as a crisis in Syria has become a regional disaster with serious global implications,” Rep. Ed Royce, R-Calif., the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said Wednesday.

We did see this coming,” said Royce, adding that Iraqi officials and some diplomats at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad began urging the administration in August 2013 to launch U.S. drone strikes against Islamic State bases near Iraq’s border with Syria.

One complicating factor was the administration’s approach to Syria and the uprising there to topple President Bashar Assad, a goal President Barack Obama adopted as America’s own in an August 2011 statement that said Assad had lost all legitimacy to rule and must go.

Some experts argue that Obama committed a key error in 2012 by rejecting calls from top national security aides, lawmakers and others to train and arm a moderate rebel force to fight Assad.

Obama administration officials say that rejection was based on a variety of concerns, including that weapons passed to moderate rebels might end up in the hands of more radical elements

What is indisputable, Smyth said, is that the White House became immobilized by the complexity of the crisis:

Read more here: www.mercedsunstar.com...=cpy

Long article but well worth reading

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: darkbake

This is utterly disgraceful.

Why would they wish to destroy such a site? What are they going to do next, nuke Mecca?

Destroying the Kabba (spelling?) in Mecca is on their wish list. Doesn't sound like they would have any support left if they continue to check things off their list. Who would be supporting them then? It would be most revealing to see who is actually supporting them if they were to succeed.