Is the Vatican withholding or destroyng important documents of other religions?

Left to rot or the valuable parchment reused for (from their point of view) Catholic religious writings

The Library itself is fairly new from the 15th century while the 'secret' archive has been around longer but from all accounts deals with Vatican internal matters.

Napoleon was the last looter he took the entire archive to Paris in or about 1809 he obtained 3,000 chests worth of material all of which was returned (slowly) to Rome after his defeat.

Oh for certain. Not only that, but I imagine all those "heretical" scientific writings of the Middle Ages and Renaissance are in those vaults too. I've been to the museo in the Vatican, it's like looking at a pirate's plunder---I would venture a guess to say that Christian artifacts don't make up half of their artifact and document stores. I mean I would even go as far as to say they probably have original artworks that have reproductions on display elsewhere in the world---the Vatican acquires other peoples' culture like frickin' Napoleon.

a reply to: Aural

Here are the requirements of entry. As NavyDoc said, you basically need to have a legitimate need to have access, to keep out the kooks. Why? Because if you ask to see a document from the Eighth Century, you get the document from the Eighth Century, not a photocopy. So get a professor at your local university to endorse you and your project, send it in a letter to the Vatican, and you'll most likely get in.

I don't think that there are any subject limitations -- people have gone in to read the records of the Inquisition, Papal journals, or documentation of the violent suppression of various heresies... not exactly the stuff that the church is proud of.

But don't get too excited. The term "Secret Archives" is a little unfortunate, because what it really meant was "Private Archives", so most of what is in there is of interest to hardly anyone outside of theologians and historians, and they have been open to the academics of the world since the 1800s, so you're unlikely to uncover anything noteworthy.

Yes and i think the reason why can not be known until the end or else the end would come sooner.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Aural
a reply to: NavyDoc

What were his requirements for entry? Im aware people can enter with permission but dont you have to already know what you are looking for and it should be known something exists to begin with? Is he allowed to roam unatended?

Well published and well respected PhD. He's an atheist but it didn't matter. He initially sent a request for his first subject and was permitted access and was helped find the materials needed. After that, the custodians (or whatever they call themselves) knew him and he was able to go back several times for research projects. It helps to be a published academian and not a crank to get access.

if i were hiding something, the last thing i would do is lock people out. the first thing people get suspicious about is the locked door that no one goes into. better to make them think they know about everything so they dont start looking to begin with.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Aural
a reply to: NavyDoc

What were his requirements for entry? Im aware people can enter with permission but dont you have to already know what you are looking for and it should be known something exists to begin with? Is he allowed to roam unatended?

Well published and well respected PhD. He's an atheist but it didn't matter. He initially sent a request for his first subject and was permitted access and was helped find the materials needed. After that, the custodians (or whatever they call themselves) knew him and he was able to go back several times for research projects. It helps to be a published academian and not a crank to get access.

if i were hiding something, the last thing i would do is lock people out. the first thing people get suspicious about is the locked door that no one goes into.

That's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy isn't it? If you are hiding something you won't let me in, if you are hiding something but let me in, you must be hiding it more cleverly. I've been to the Vatican myself several times with interest in the history of anatomy and physiology and they have some writings by Galen and Servetus. I didn't delve any further myself because I was not interested, but they were simple librarians in my experience.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Aural
a reply to: NavyDoc

What were his requirements for entry? Im aware people can enter with permission but dont you have to already know what you are looking for and it should be known something exists to begin with? Is he allowed to roam unatended?

Well published and well respected PhD. He's an atheist but it didn't matter. He initially sent a request for his first subject and was permitted access and was helped find the materials needed. After that, the custodians (or whatever they call themselves) knew him and he was able to go back several times for research projects. It helps to be a published academian and not a crank to get access.

if i were hiding something, the last thing i would do is lock people out. the first thing people get suspicious about is the locked door that no one goes into.

That's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy isn't it? If you are hiding something you won't let me in, if you are hiding something but let me in, you must be hiding it more cleverly. I've been to the Vatican myself several times with interest in the history of anatomy and physiology and they have some writings by Galen and Servetus. I didn't delve any further myself because I was not interested, but they were simple librarians in my experience.

i didnt say they are hiding something. i'm just speculating because its fun to imagine a secret organization bent on keeping world-changing secrets from us righteous citizens. thats why theres so many books and movies about it. because its entertaining.

originally posted by: Aural
a reply to: NavyDoc

Yes but what was his subject of research? If they require knowing what is being researched they can reject someone if they do not see the subject as being fit to their liking.

Shrug. I guess they could. However, without being personal, he did a lot of research that would not be considered flattering to the church. Due to his connections, I was able to visit and see original manuscripts of early medical treatise simply because I was curious. They seemed eager to share knowledge and were proud of their rare manuscripts. There are no albino monks in cassocks, the curators are all PHD and are laypeople and religious people and men and women. No dark, cobweb infested catacombs like in the movies. It's very much like an academic institution like anywhere else in the world.

That said, I can't say that they don't have a safe somewhere full of forbidden works, just that my experience,it's not like the movies.

originally posted by: adjensen
a reply to: Aural

Here are the requirements of entry. As NavyDoc said, you basically need to have a legitimate need to have access, to keep out the kooks. Why? Because if you ask to see a document from the Eighth Century, you get the document from the Eighth Century, not a photocopy. So get a professor at your local university to endorse you and your project, send it in a letter to the Vatican, and you'll most likely get in.

I don't think that there are any subject limitations -- people have gone in to read the records of the Inquisition, Papal journals, or documentation of the violent suppression of various heresies... not exactly the stuff that the church is proud of.

But don't get too excited. The term "Secret Archives" is a little unfortunate, because what it really meant was "Private Archives", so most of what is in there is of interest to hardly anyone outside of theologians and historians, and they have been open to the academics of the world since the 1800s, so you're unlikely to uncover anything noteworthy.

Well said. It is not treated like a secret conspiracy but like an academic institution with rare, old, and valuable texts. You'd go through a similar process to see the Oxford rare collection.

a reply to: strongfp

If they did have other texts from other religions then it very well might hold key information that has been lost in crusades, conquests, looting, etc that has happened in it's history. But, I doubt it would be anything beyond Judaism of Islam, and nothing they probably don't know.

You must remember that most of the texts and books you see today are compilations of either many other books, or word of mouth.

Haven't gotten past your post in the thread yet, to see what others say, but after reading the OP, I was thinking, "well, yes...they have the records of the missing 19 years of 'Jesus' - and that he was studying with gurus and monks in Buddhist lands and came back to teach those tenets."

But, I don't know. It just makes more sense to me that he was East, learning.

Just my current opinion. It changes frequently.

a reply to: NavyDoc

That's so cool!! You got to go there?!!
Wow. I love libraries. So, do you have any idea what sort of 'degree' someone would need? Do they need to be enrolled as a PhD candidate or anything?

Probably have to have 'peer-reviewed publications' or something. Best I got is speaking at a national conference, and an MSW.



ETA: I see that dale linked the requirements. (Thanks! Hi to Oscar!)

Guess I should have read the entire thread before shooting off my mouth.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

they have the records of the missing 19 years of 'Jesus' - and that he was studying with gurus and monks in Buddhist lands and came back to teach those tenets."

Nope.

The earliest texts that these archives hold are from the Eighth Century. They have no insights into the "lost years of Jesus", which we orthodox Christians believe are not noteworthy.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Tibetans use signs in the sky to locate the rebirth of the Dali lama so perhaps the wise men from the east that followed the star of Bethlehem are one and the same.

a reply to: glend

Tibetans use signs in the sky to locate the rebirth of the Dali lama so perhaps the wise men from the east that followed the star of Bethlehem are one and the same.

Yup!! Yeppers! That.

If you're interested in resources to look into it, pm me.

a reply to: adjensen

Ah. Okay.

I'd think that as a case study they would be quite 'noteworthy' indeed.
But, thanks for clarifying that.


I guess that's why the whole issue is at a violent 'stand-still' even today.

Does anyone have any evidence that such suppression has taken place?

No?

Then this thread is a waste of time — nothing but an airing of anti-Catholic prejudice.

a reply to: NavyDoc

You'd go through a similar process to see the Oxford rare collection.

I can vouch for this. I recently got someone (with the necessary permissions) to look in the Bodleian for some letters written by a nineteenth-century attorney-general. The procedure was, as I expected it to be, pretty strict. And that's for documents that are barely 150 years old. I can just imagine how careful you'd have to be with documents as much as ten times older.

Supposedly, Catholicism is actually based off a Babylonian religion, then mixed with some with Hebrew later on. Unless they had records of some archaeology. Other then that, they probably burned most of the Pagan stuff anyways.

a reply to: Specimen

I agree,
Anyways, who cares what the Pedophile Mecca says or does know ?

They will NEVER be brought to justice for the atrocities they have committed over the last THOUSAND years or so...

At least they provided material for Hollywood to make their sick-fu*k movies that the masses seem to enjoy...

a reply to: Aural

for how many centuries did the great roman killing machine march throughout the lands killing and enslaving the masses of every other faith and if you did not accept it they hung you on the cross ,fed you to the lions ,or just murder all of your people in your lands .or they burned them on the stake calling them witches funny thing is they were the healers masters of the herbs ,doing what their god told them to do as even our bible told us that everything we needed was here for us already . the same as the great Jewish king David did centuries ago murdering everyone in every nation that he conquered, and you wonder why the rest of the middle east is still pissed with them to this day .when you come home from the caravan routes and everything and everyone that you hold dear to your heart is slaughtered ,i`d be royally pissed too . now considering that the bible was plagiarized from the Sumerian texts and then they added in the history of Israel [what a joke ].and then they called it the bible .BUT HERE IS AN INTERESTING THING ABOUT THE CRISTIAN FAITH ,we the children of rock and roll watched their priests stand hand in hand with the us governments they bankers and their cops and their millitarys and turn against the children of their own nation all because the kids asked for change and correction .they beat us down and murdered us in cold blood in our great halls of knowledge .it seems that Israel has raised its ugly head world wide because they are trying their danmdest to start WWW3 right now . FACT #2 we watched the heads of all of our so called christian churches change alter and erase something from the bible on national t.v. , the bible as i was taught was never to be touched or changed or erased at least that is what our priests preached to us the sentence was DEATH for doing this . they erased the nine letters that hung above his head on the cross and replaced it with the lying 4 letters that you all wear around your necks . THE CHAIN THAT BINDS YOU TO THE PAST .