Mexico is Way More Screwed than You Think

My son and daughter-in-law went to Morelia, Mexico last year. They stayed in the private home of their married friends who were living/working/going to college there, the friends have family in Morelia.

My d-in-law and her friends are from Puerto Rico, they speak fluent English/Spanish. The Mexican dialect is a bit different so my d-in-law's friend gave her a crash course so she wouldn't sound touristy. They told my son to grow a beard/dress down/keep his voice low, so he didn't appear too American.

The friends were especially nervous about buses/taxis. They went out of their way ensuring my son/d-in-law's safe passage to/from the airport and didn't let them out of their sight ever. Kidnapping seems to be the biggest fear and it comes out of nowhere. My son/d-in-law made it back just fine, the friends graduated moved to the states.

I would've worried more if my d-in-law/her friends didn't speak Spanish/have family connections down there. From what my d-in-law's friend said that alone doesn't guarantee much but American tourists are little more than walking targets.

I really don't think resorts are doing a disservice or pulling a fast one by advising guests to stay on site. If locals are nervous/scared for their tourist friends, it would be very irresponsible and a liability if resorts didn't take the same precautions. It might seem over the top but talk to trustworthy locals, guides/staff etc., heed their advice/warnings.

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: ATODASO

Are Mexican's so afraid and weak they can not even protect a single community? They should all be ashamed they have let it get this bad is it any wonder why they are flooding across.

hey, check this out. it looks like there's a lot of militia activity, and that in some parts of the country, it's been pretty damn effective.

but even if they make headway against the cartels, the military will target them for quelling.

no win for the little guy.

a reply to: ATODASO

I am glad you made this thread because this has been my interest as of late, because i have interest in traveling through to South America, but for now it's looking impossible.

I don't know where to begin. The only roads you really want to (well.. should) travel are the toll roads. There safe places in some cities, but they are just relatively safe because numbers and tourism. What's crazy is you could be on a safe beach and then 4 or so blocks inland you are in serious danger.

One of the scariest things the cartel does is set up checkpoints. See the government sets up checkpoints that people stop at, but the Cartels set up illegal checkpoints and dress as soldiers. Obviously these are dangerous and anything could probably happen, but if you come across one you just pay like it's a normal one and keep going.

Anytime you are on the road though you are in danger (especially in SUVs and especially dark colored ones). They will car jack you while driving down the road including bumping you off the road. Other things they do is kidnapping, but they also do virtual kidnapping where they call your hotel room and tell you they are outside and if you leave they will kill you and to barricade yourself in your room. They instill fear and get your family's phone numbers from you and tell you not to answer your family or call anyone. Then they call your family and say you are kidnapped, get money, then call and say you are free. So they are payed with you never actually being kidnapped, but that doesn't mean they weren't capable and totally willing and you would much prefer to be virtually kidnapped than actually kidnapped.

Lastly, there was recently an American who was killed down there in Guerrero or somewhere nearby. It is believed he was killed by the Knights Templar cartel which is the surviving half of another Cartel that split in two. They worked briefly doing dirty work for Sinoala Cartel, but I think they are sort of at odds again. Sinoala also works with the Tijuana Cartel in Baja. Anyway.. off track.. I think one of two things happened to this American traveler/blogger. First off he was very foolish to do what he did, sorry to speak negatively of the dead. The US releases a regularly updated report on where is safe in Mexico and what's happening where and by whom. These reports are very specific like.. "don't go beyong two blocks past this street" or "only stay in the hotel district in this city." If I have time I will post it later. Anyway.. what I think happened. He sent a message saying he was in a place to dangerous to be and was getting a military escort out and would be picked up by another military escort. He was never heard from again. His motorcycle was found in a shallow grave and shortly after his body was found in two bags with small packs of pot and coc aine near where the bike was found. Most likely he was picked up by the Knights Templar Cartel posing as military and they killed him for whatever reason.. maybe he wouldn't give them money.. or I don't know? My second theory was that he actually made it through with legitimate assistance but saw an auto defense group and they killed him. Explanation: the Auto Defense groups are anti cartel and they wait at night in complete darkness for someone to come down the road then jump out and turn on lights at the last minute.. many of them with guns. These guys DONT dress like military they just wear casual clothes and often masks. Now all they do is make sure you aren't cartel, but they are hostile. If you run they will assume you are cartel and shoot you. If you stop they will let you by, no robbery, etc. The thing is they look like what most people expect the cartel to look like so people run and get shot at. So I have also considered he came up on an auto defense group, tried to run and was killed. It's not nearly as likely as the cartel ending because they are not as widespread and i don't know that they would cut the body in half and spread drugs about, but i also don't know if they would fear punishment to the point that they would make an accidental kill look like cartel. Honestly though, I doubt there is enough law that they would try to cover anything up. They would likely just say, he ran, cartel is everywhere, we shot him - and get no punishment. Either way it's interesting to consider.

I hope this thread stays alive.. and i have read alot about this so any questions. Also interesting Cartel info. One of the leaders of the Sinoala was captured just a few months ago. Also, Cartel bosses have made a tradition out of marrying beauty queens. To the point where the aforementioned captures Sinoala boss El Chapo Guzman rigged a small pageant so his wife could be a beauty pageant queen then he married her (of course he was like early 50's and she just turned 18).

a reply to: ATODASO

Even the tourist areas aren't very safe anymore. Someone close to me went to Mexico for a week and described a pretty chilling incident. They hired a tour guide to take them around to see the temples (pyramids) and at the end of the day when they were exiting the car at their hotel, the driver picked up a phone and yelled "one of you forgot your phone in the car". He insisted that one of them take it in case it belongs to one of the other people in the small group. My friend looked at the phone and it didn't look familiar. It was old and kind of beat up. She didn't want to take it, but the driver kept insisting that she does. She wasn't entirely sure that it didn't belong to one of them so she took it with her.

Once they got up to their room, she showed them the phone and none of them recognized it. One of the guys decided to call the owner of the phone (don't know details how they tracked him down) but when he did, the guy on the other end of the line sounded really angry and accused them of stealing his phone. He asked where they were staying so that he could come pick it up. Since he was raging, they decided not to tell him where they were staying and told him they'd leave it at the front desk for him where he could pick it up.

My friend didn't think much of the incident until after she got back. One day while researching something for her work, she comes across a VERY similar story from someone else who also vacationed in Mexico and had the same thing happen to them.... except..... they made the mistake of inviting the guy to their hotel room. If I remember the story correctly, three guys showed up, two of them being Mexican cops. They decided to turn their room upside down, arrested them and released them after they were forced to pay high fines. Seems like some crazy scam being run on unsuspecting tourists.

There's also a short documentary about a Mormon town in Mexico that is constantly at war with the Mexican Cartels. They've had people kidnapped, shot, etc.

It's a 3rd world country, did you expect any less?

First/Second world countries live in lala-land compared to the rest of the world. There's a bubble of insulation. The rulers of these countries harvest the energy more subtly, usually with abstractions, not machete's to the neck.

We have more of a veneer of civilization here, but it's just as nasty if you dare to see the species as we are.

I think that as long as people feel oppressed, they will turn to drugs. People turn to uppers when the times are good, and downers when times are bad, generally. Mexico has that supplied no problem, from heroine, meth, pot, and even helping to bring in coke.

There's no politically viable solution in the short term, and it seems there's not enough time to evolve the political will while keeping the cartels contained within their territories.

I don't necessarily buy into the notion that cartels are really gaining a foothold here in the US, compared to say 20 years ago. Mexican shwag was huge when I was growing up. That has been partially replaced in demand by high quality coming elsewhere, and meth from the south in recent years.

I don't think there's political will for a variety of reasons. First off, people are sufficiently propagandized to trust doctors pilling them up, but not to medicate their selves with substances that are deemed dangerous and illegal. Secondly, it's known that the government tends to play both sides of the drug war. It benefits some of our alphabet agencies and corporate interests to keep the system as it is.

You have, the world over, ruthless individuals who play by their own rules, and the people who have simple needs. I don't think this gets better as we move forward in time.

a reply to: ATODASO

Actually the military joined with them briefly, but they got a little out of hand (the auto defensas/local militia) and so they said they should just worry about their own towns.

They don't really mess with tourists, but they are obviously always on edge about strangers.

a reply to: ATODASO

From your description the place has passed the point of no return and is not worth saving.
Put up a a Berlin wall worthy fence and let the eloi and morlocks sort it out themselves.

a reply to: VforVendettea

Decriminalization of drugs in the US would be a fatal blow to the cartels. Just legalizing pot would be a huge blow.

These guys are millionaires and can afford weapons because the drugs can't be produced here, but because they can't be produced here doesn't change their use here (and actually creates crime here too).


The war on drugs causes this all. If you used drugs and had the option of buying them from a shady dealer, or growing them yourself or buying at a shop what would you choose? If you were a dealer and had the option of producing yourself or dealing with a murdering cartel what would you choose?

Keep in mind nothing changes the fact that the drugs are here and being used.

interesting reading this thread, then seeing that Mexicans apparently feel more free than in the US? how can they feel so free in conditions described here? or is this just propaganda to support those illegals?

The question asked:

"Some people feel they have completely free choice and control over their lives, while other people feel that what they do has no real effect on what happens to them. Please use this scale where 1 means "no choice at all" and 10 means "a great deal of choice" to indicate how much freedom of choice and control you feel you have over the way your life turns out."

Japan rounds out the bottom, with respondents reporting an average of 5.8. Russia comes in at a close second-to-last with six. Mexico takes the top spot. There, respondents rated their freedom and choice in life at an average 8.2.

www.businessinsider.com...

i would think from what has been described that people would feel they have no freedom of choice and control of their lives. after all according to what has been said here people are too scared to go outside for fear of death, kidnapping, and being mined for body parts from the criminals that control everything.

This is all true . I am from mexico living in the us. A lot of my family members have gotten threat messages . I was hoping of visiting my roots one day but not anymore thanks to this situation . The police have no choice but to join these cartels , they get killed if they don't . I suggest you dont travel to mexico . Have you heard of the girls who went to a party near the border? The cartel operated cops stopped them and tey turned them over to the cartels as gifts (i can't find the article but scary stuff , cant even trust the cops) .... It makes me sad that my home land is in this terrible situation /: shame on the us for profiting by all of this ..

We can add this thread to the rest of the doom porn, because it's mostly nonsense. Yep, just got back from Mexico a few weeks ago on vacation with the family. We had a great time, imagine that?

Left the resort too, on foot even. Now I would not recommend hanging around any border towns down there, but then again I would not pitch a tent in Detroit or Oakland either.

I've been all over Mexico and never once have I had any problems. Fact is,Tourism is very important to their economy. ~$heopleNation

a reply to: SheopleNation

Where were you in Mexico? Along the Rivera Maya?

Leaving the resort can be tricky during certain dates. The military has had to really ramp up to try and keep control of some of the resort locations.

It's a genuine threat, but you can still travel to Mexico a bit and never have major issues.

I'm actually still considering living in Medina in a few years time. Cheap, fiber internet, good culture, and not like the Northern part of the country. Mostly don't worry about cartels chopping people's heads off.

I've left the "resort" in Mexico many times, and on foot as well! but it was always still a "resort" area in general.

I'm 1/4 Mexican, my father is 1/2 Mexican, and we both get it that Mexico is essentially a failed state run by cartels, and not safe anymore.

My mom, French, still chooses to do business in Mexico, and travels by herself. We try to reason with her, but she's willing to take the risk. Not gonna stop her or anyone else from doing what they want to do.

If the Cartel situation is that bad down in Mexico and Central America, and they want the United States to foot the bill for the 'refugees' and take care of their populace, if it is really that bad, where they are committing mass murder Taliban style, then they need to ask for America's help. I think if you showed the American people what is supposedly going on in this country and region, a majority of our military personnel would have zero problems going in and taking out the garbage to rid the world of these scum. Send in the Military. If Mexico wants to dump it's affected population on the United States, they have to be willing to compromise. In my opinion, it would be alot cheaper to send in a few Battalion's of Marines to kill off the Cartel and help them rebuild, than to continue taking in all their people and feeding and educating them. I know it sounds bad, like it's giving America another excuse to be World Police, but if this is as bad as all the Liberals are saying, they won't have a leg to stand on, and it would be a true humanitarian mission that will end up saving America alot of money in the long run.

originally posted by: [post=18188721]ATODASO[/post

*one of the things you will be asked to do by the cartels if you work in law enforcement is tamper with the kidnapping reports. bury them, alter them, etc. if you are a police officer, you can bust someone for going shirtless in public, but a body can be chucked out the back of a van in the town plaza right in front of you, and you will do nothing.

*they even kidnap dogs. they take them from yards and parks and either ransom them or sell them to the chinese for meat. Y___ took her dog to the park one day, and a woman approached her and tried to take it. Y___ kicked her and ran like hell with the dog in her arms.

*nobody has a job. unless it's cartel related.

Those three ARE NOT TRUE im Mexican , and that just isnt true, the other things are

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: ATODASO

Are Mexican's so afraid and weak they can not even protect a single community? They should all be ashamed they have let it get this bad is it any wonder why they are flooding across.

You cant defend the country without weapons, the only ones that have are the bad guys, and if you want a license to own a gun it is a very large progress where you have to bribe the cops so they give you a gun and after that you can only own a .22 or .38 nothing more, other callibers are for the military guys.

There was a group called "Autodefensas" that killed the bad guys and took their weapons and they were doing a nice job defending the places they live, but the police arrested their leader (because the guns they took from the cartels were just for military use) and he went to jail, now those defender groups dissapeared

a reply to: SylvaneJack13

I would think that Mexicos problem is the education level and lack of middle class within the country. Interesting enough what is the trend for education and the middle class here in the US?

You cant defend the country without weapons

And there goes the tread. ...
]

I know my husband has said several times that his company was thinking of sending him down to a facility in Mexico to do some work, but that if they did, they would have to hire a personal security team for him because he works on pharmaceuticals. It doesn't matter that he mostly does lab testing and analytics on data instead of actually making the vaccines themselves. All that matters is that if the cartels find out that he has something to do with making drugs, it could make him a kidnapping target.

They sent one of his coworkers, and that guy had a private security detail while he was there.

Yes, Mexico is very messed up.

a reply to: ATODASO

www.borderlandbeat.com...
Possibly 30 Years for Canadian Narco with ties to Sinaloa Cartel and the Mafia

Canadian Drug Kingpin , Jimmy Cournoyer, with Ties to the Rizutto and Bonanno Crime Families, the Hells Angels and the Mexican Sinaloa Cartel Plead Guilty in 2013 to Narcotics Trafficking Crimes Carrying Sentence of 20 Years to Life and $1 Billion in Forfeiture.

Canada and one Billion in Forfeiture... Hummm

Cournoyer acquired his $1-billion drug empire by “gaining control over ports and customs checkpoints through a combination of covert operations and outright political corruption” and abusing “sovereign tribal lands” on First Nations’ reserves “that are almost impossible to police,” prosecutors said.

Additionally, he maintained a 2 million dollar execution fund, used to eliminate known or potential informers.

Many of the things posted in the Op have been relayed to me by local Mexican Nationals and the Border patrol guys I used to do some hunting and shooting with. Again just second hand information.

I had a buddy (X-Marine) who way back in the mid 90's made a comment that he would place all the assets of the U.S. military on the southern border and have them move south until they could establish a border (probably around the Panama Canal) that we as a nation could control and defend. I thought he was rather "out there" when he said that but it might not be that far fetched ? I do know some Mexican's would welcome such an action if it meant their lives and children's lives could be spared the corruption of their government, police, military, and the Cartels..

The nationalist would fight tooth and nail as would the Cartels and anyone on the take... Propaganda from our side might make it more palpable; but I don't see it happening in my life time ... Propaganda sure works on us so never underestimate what can be accomplished with nothing but words and lies ?
www.borderlandbeat.com...

Violence erupted tonight the result of clashes between cells of organized crime in the town of Nuevo Progreso, resulting in a flurry of shootouts and blockades generated in several block of this border town. The gunfights lasted more than three hours, beginning with fighting between organized crime groups and ending with a shootout against federal forces.

At least 10 dead in Nuevo Progresso alone.

Mexico is Way More Screwed than You Think

Dunno bout that I have always thought Mexico was pretty messed up.

Never got the whole rich people go to Mexico to 'vacation'.

Poor people come here to 'get' rich.

Never made sense.

This is why parents will send their children to the border, for a chance to...LIVE. Any of us would do the same.

Whether cartels in Mexico or war in Gaza/Israel or Netherlands/Ukraine/Russia....we just want a chance for our children to LIVE and thrive to their fullest potential.

Stop the insanity.