Islam and quran says to go to war with non Muslims, will there ever be peace ?

a reply to: LABTECH767

I have researched Christianity from a different angle and that's through Hinduism. I now realize, it doesn't matter if JC was a God or a Prophet. In either case he was one with the Father (Brahma) which means he spoke with the full authority of God.

Joshua (Yeshua, Jesus) showed us by example how to be one with the father. We should all aim to ride the donkey, walk the desert, be a disciple, in every thought and action we do, without ever fearing death. There are no free tickets to heaven.

God Bless.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Let's ALL remember this push for women in combat too.

originally posted by: [post=18192200]glend There are no free tickets to heaven.

God Bless.

Nope.
The gift of The Holy Ghost, in other words eternal life is entirely free.
This had/has to be true, lest any man should boast.

a reply to: Nochzwei

Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The Father made us in his image so we are the Son. The Holy Ghost is the divine mother of creation, the cosmic energy which preserves all life in our universe. Father/Son is stillness and the Holy Ghost is movement. All aspects of the true one God.

But I have no special insight, its just my interpretation of words I have read. I could be wrong and you right. Each to our own beliefs.

Ther wont be PEACE
on this planet untill
ALL religion and politics
is wiped out...

a reply to: Miccey

Organised religion sure hypotheticaly possible. Its on a downfall for non religious spirituality and isolated non governed religions. However I fail to see how politics could ever end unless you want everyone to be mind controlled to have same opinions on everything.

originally posted by: Spacespider

originally posted by: BlackNWhite
a reply to: Spacespider

Funny how people like you fear Islam , yet it's the western countries who are doing all the bombings and killings. USA has caused more mayhem and deaths around the globe in the past century than any other Muslim country, yet somehow you see Islam as a threat to world peace ?

Yes

why ? The usuall suspects from the West have been bombing souvereign countries and overthrowing governments causing millions of deaths yet you see Muslims as the biggest threat to world peace based on some misinterpeted quotes from their holy book?! Why ?

Anywhere it says to kill pagans, the line immediately before or after says "when they are attacking you". It's that simple. It goes into very clear, specific detail. Pre-emptive war or forced conversion is not left to interpretation in Qu'ran. It is directly discussed as forbidden and many particular examples are given. This kind of exegesis is like if I quote a critic who said my movie was "a spectacular failure" as saying it was "spectacular". It's not a matter of opinion and it's not vague. Every single place where killing what your translation has as "unbeliever" (in fact the word used varies, but in context it always means a person who attacks you first) is permitted it is very clear this does not mean go out and kill them first.

What Islam does say that some might object to is that it is fully acceptable to respond to anyone trying to destroy you or your people with overwhelming force. If they throw a rock hoping to kill you, it is allowed to vaporize them with a ray gun. Many might dislike this but it is hardly an unknown philosophy in Western culture.

Oh peacful muslims of the world,(and indeed in this thread) what are YOU going to do about the many many thousands of fellow followers of Islam who are allegedly misquoting and perverting your religion and causing most of the world to grow tired of the violence and aggression your people are inflicting on us, it is because of this minority that you are being tarred with the same brush as them, people are starting to think that Islam is far from a religion of peace, people are starting to think that all muslims are vile people, this is very unfair I know but unless you start to help yourselves I feel your people will be removed from western society and the sooner the better, so I ask again what are you going to do about it when are you going to start speaking up and removing these individuals from your communities so you and the rest of us can get on with our lives

Its sad to say that you wont do anything except make excuses for them I have no sympathy for you
you say you are moderate muslims, well let me put this to you, if I was a Nazi but not part of the SS or Gestapo would I be a moderate Nazi ? No I would be a Nazi so it is only right that if you are a muslim and not a part of ISIS or some other backward vile movment then you are classed as the same, the ball is in your court I suggest you use it

a reply to: dam00

I see this claim so often and it confuses me. Where exactly are you looking for these Muslims, under the carpet? On the TV news? Denouncing radicalism is so common now people have whole careers based on it. Those who don't have time or access to publish widely are constantly discussing the tragedy and offense of bad Islam online in many forms. Do you try to spend time with any Muslims or in places we talk about this stuff? I don't mean to be hostile. I'm genuinely trying to work out where this impression comes from. I'd give cites but how do I begin? It's everywhere. One has to try hard to find any ordinary Muslims who don't frequently discuss at least in passing how horrifying and wrong it is. Of course we don't just yammer on about it all day long. We don't really need to convince non-Muslims--I mean, certainly we can try, but the problem is inside the community, so it's the toxic parts of that we have to convince. In general Muslims are very friendly and welcoming of those who do want to understand, though. Maybe go on Twitter and start following some of the different discussions there for a better view of what ordinary Muslims do talk about all the time. I should warn you there are some hardcore extremists who get pretty obsessive...so if you don't like soccer you might want to put a filter on.

a reply to: sepermeru

post some links I would love to join in the disscusions, I did try to join my local mosques FB page but its a closed group,

and I have met many muslims who are great people,
maybe a kind of new testament is needed for the koran get rid of all the violent verses to stop all the misconceptions, what do you think about that, is that something you would go for?

a reply to: dam00

Your Government committed Genocide in Iraq, do I assume you are a Genocidal maniac for allowing them to get away with it or doing nothing about it?

a reply to: DarknStormy

How do you know I have done nothing about it ?
Tony Blair is a war criminal and I dont keep quiet about it.

so are you suggesting that all the problems Muslims cause are down to Iraq, or are you just trying to start an off topic argument?

a reply to: dam00

Qu'ran cannot be altered, but your suggestion isn't that far from how things are developing. (By the way, I definitely agree that the people whose problematic "it says kill em" interpretation is causing trouble are Muslims, not those seeking to grasp why Islam seems so violent. I think it shows a kind spirit and good heart when non-Muslims are alarmed.)

Anyhoo, a lot of this stuff is about poor translation or exegesis. Even in Arabic, editions of Qu'ran are generally annotated extensively, if not in the text, then by local spiritual leaders. You'd be amazed, honestly -- in some of its presentations, you get about three words of original for every two sentences of some guy twisting the words in knots to mean what he wants them to mean. People memorize the whole thing, but what starts out clear and straightforward -- if somebody tries to kill you, kill them back, but if they come to you in peace, give them peace, what's not clear about that? Well somebody just has to jump in and go "well by kill it means if they give you a dirty look, and by peace it means dead people are very peaceful..."

That's one of the big problems with religion. No argument from me about that. The best way to fight it is with better translations/teaching of what is really there, and encouragement and help for those being tragically used by evil clerics who distort it for personal gain. Qu'ran even says, there will be people who distort this and use it for evil. Don't fall for them. But the evil guy comes along and says "By distort it means you can't understand it without my help and by evil it means not doing what I say." Ultimately, the best way to fight religious-based evil is by helping to uplift people out of physical and mental and emotional circumstances where they can be easily manipulated and controlled by evil clerics, and help them be free to live and think and interpret free of coercion.

That probably sounds nothing like Islam as it is usually viewed from the outside now, but that's because a billion people not doing anything violent is not news. I don't blame anyone who has a distorted image--it's sold to us in the West so constantly and consistently, some of the most "liberal" people I know still think Islam=Saudi Arabia. But it's like if we ignored everything in America but Utah, then wanted to know where all the allegedly non-Mormon Americans were. It would be fully understandable if all the Americans who don't live in Utah or aren't Mormon only existed as a theoretical image if people were suspicious of non-Utah claims. But it'd still be very inaccurate, through no fault of the person who was taught Utah=America.

No to terror
No to Hamas

And now they are getting their butt kicked they cry
and if they get a breather they exploit it to send rockets...

Support Israel Free Israel once and forever

a reply to: sepermeru

A very well thought out response thank you, but still no links to these twitter feeds you speak of, so it would appear this is just your interpretation of what is happening, without any proof.

why cant the Quran be changed ? is it because it says so in the Quran, then that brings us back around to the same point, people obeying what is written, it is every muslim males duty to live his life in the same way as mohamads mohamad was a violent man, and there is also abrogation which means everything written before is superseeded by everything that was written after, there are some very peacefull verses in the quran but they are superseeded by the violent ones written after when mohamad was more powerfull and had more followers (they had to follow or they would be killed ) tell me I am wrong
this feels like tequia to me

a reply to: dam00

I forgot you wanted Twitter links, is all. I'm happy to supply some.

Your understanding of Islam seems confused, and is just incorrect in places. Nothing in Qu'ran can be abrogated -- one of the fundamental rules is that nothing in it is a contradiction and all of it is true and important. Where contradictions seem to arise, the context is key. For example, if it says the Messenger did something, one has to look at how and why he did it, not just copy the action. The how and why is also part of the action. So if he does something that he agonizes and prays over, we understand we are never to do that thing lightly either, but must be sure it is appropriate for the circumstance. We follow his Sunnah, his ways of living, but we do not venerate him above any other Prophet. The ways of Moses, Jesus, and all other Old Testament prophets are just as important to us.

I would be happy to try to explain, but I'm more worried about your seeming concern and despair, which I think are very understandable. I don't think me just reciting facts at you will help that, and I would much rather you have wrong assumptions about Islam than that you suffer. I'll gather some of the people and communities on Twitter who represent what more than a billion (vs the very small percentage in parts of the Middle East) Muslims are like and I hope you will feel a bit better just from getting to know us more. I know that for me, for example, I was always very nervous about Mormons. What I knew about them made me think they were dangerous people, and that while there might be good ones, they were the exception. Now I've met some, spent time just seeing them as basically like everyone else, and my heart is soothed.

a reply to: sepermeru

Looking forward to the links