Islam and quran says to go to war with non Muslims, will there ever be peace ?

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: Nochzwei
You converted?
May the Lord have Mercy on you.
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Yes i did and the lords mercy has been great!

It was the best decsion i ever made in my life.

I was a werck before i converted , i didnt have a real good understanding of life and the beauty of love and compassion.


But now i do , i have learnd these things through Islam may Allah (god) grant everyone the same mercy !

Ameen

I get the impression that you truly have love and compassion for others.
But what about eternal life? Only Jesus can give you that Once you become Saved.

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Wa-Alaikum-Salaam

Yes, the religion has gotten a bad rep since the ignorant ones who are labeled Jihadists and radicals have gone astray.

There is a strain of bigotry because people choose to be ignorant and don’t look at things on their own

But he Quran says:

By the time surely man is in lost

Except those who believe and exhort one another to truth

And exhort one another to patience

What other scripture would have this verse

"There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Tâghût and believes in God (ar. Allah), then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And God is All-Hearer, All-Knower."
256 of Al-Baqara

Ma Salaam

originally posted by: Nochzwei

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: Nochzwei
You converted?
May the Lord have Mercy on you.
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Yes i did and the lords mercy has been great!

It was the best decsion i ever made in my life.

I was a werck before i converted , i didnt have a real good understanding of life and the beauty of love and compassion.


But now i do , i have learnd these things through Islam may Allah (god) grant everyone the same mercy !

Ameen

I get the impression that you truly have love and compassion for others.
But what about eternal life? Only Jesus can give you that Once you become Saved.

Let's first look at who Jesus was .

By Christan belief he was an "exstention" of god .

Jesus is no longer in the flesh here on earth .
He was present during a time when their was disorder and chaos.

He brought a great message to mankind . and that message was peace and love.

Being that ... As i said Jesus is an "exstention" of god in the flesh , so then I ask you if Muslims worship god alone and Christians worship Jesus (a part of god) do we not then worship the same god ?

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: Nochzwei

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: Nochzwei
You converted?
May the Lord have Mercy on you.
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Yes i did and the lords mercy has been great!

It was the best decsion i ever made in my life.

I was a werck before i converted , i didnt have a real good understanding of life and the beauty of love and compassion.


But now i do , i have learnd these things through Islam may Allah (god) grant everyone the same mercy !

Ameen

I get the impression that you truly have love and compassion for others.
But what about eternal life? Only Jesus can give you that Once you become Saved.

Let's first look at who Jesus was .

By Christan belief he was an "exstention" of god .

Jesus is no longer in the flesh here on earth .
He was present during a time when their was disorder and chaos.

He brought a great message to mankind . and that message was peace and love.

Being that ... As i said Jesus is an "exstention" of god in the flesh , so then I ask you if Muslims worship god alone and Christians worship Jesus (a part of god) do we not then worship the same god ?

No Jesus was the Son of God. Now He is God The Son.
There is still disorder and chaos in the world.
Not only did bring a message of peace and love, but died on the cross for our sins.
He said: I am the truth, the resurrection and the life. No one comes to the Father, but by Me.
I am not so sure If muslims and Christians worship the same God.

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

No jesus is the Messiah, he will come again to fulfill the book of revelation which it so happens also matched the angry and vengeful messiah that many jewish people are awaiting in it's description.
He is the begotten son of God not made of the earth but immaculately concieved through a manifestation of the spirit of God but he himself said he was but a servant of God, though he did say non come to the father but by me, he who see's me see's the father, the body is the TEMPLE of god, in other word's his body is the temple of God but not God himself though the difference is hard to concieve.
Now what is the Messiah or a Messiah, well it stem's back to the time of the old testament, Israel had God as there king, his tabernacle and throne aka the mercy seat of the ark where among them and he ruled through his commandment's but they wanted an earthly king like those around them so God let them have saul knowing he would fail, then he chose another archetype in the shepherd David knowing that he too would fail but David he blessed and through him came Solomon who built the Temple, this was God moving from among the people in his Tabernacle as they ahd denied his kingship over them to the Mountain above and no longer walking among them for there folly and the Temple is of course the threshing floor that David had bought for the purpose of building the Temple.
God told Jacob his descendant's would not obey him and he would punish them upon his threshing floor scattering them into the nations but he would not forever abandon them and a remnant he would bring back.
So god promised a Saviour, a king sent by Him to lead Israel, this king would be called Emanuel or God among us, The body is the Temple of God so Christ is God walking among and with the People of Israel again and he is victory, salvation and resurrection, this is why he is called the king of the Israelites but he is also the king of the Gentiles as the Israelites where chosen specificaly judah to be a nation of priest and to go into every nation to serve the Lord, he is not only there God but he is there ONLY GOD.
Now compare this to the misinterpretation of many christians (I am christian) and the gross missinterpretation of Islam.

a reply to: Willtell

Masha Allah your 100% correct .

We call these people who go astray khuawarij ..

Wiki gives a decent explanation of these types of people

Jazak Allah khair

originally posted by: Nochzwei

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: Nochzwei

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: Nochzwei
You converted?
May the Lord have Mercy on you.
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Yes i did and the lords mercy has been great!

It was the best decsion i ever made in my life.

I was a werck before i converted , i didnt have a real good understanding of life and the beauty of love and compassion.


But now i do , i have learnd these things through Islam may Allah (god) grant everyone the same mercy !

Ameen

I get the impression that you truly have love and compassion for others.
But what about eternal life? Only Jesus can give you that Once you become Saved.

Let's first look at who Jesus was .

By Christan belief he was an "exstention" of god .

Jesus is no longer in the flesh here on earth .
He was present during a time when their was disorder and chaos.

He brought a great message to mankind . and that message was peace and love.

Being that ... As i said Jesus is an "exstention" of god in the flesh , so then I ask you if Muslims worship god alone and Christians worship Jesus (a part of god) do we not then worship the same god ?

No Jesus was the Son of God. Now He is God The Son.
There is still disorder and chaos in the world.
Not only did bring a message of peace and love, but died on the cross for our sins.
He said: I am the truth, the resurrection and the life. No one comes to the Father, but by Me.
I am not so sure If muslims and Christians worship the same God.

This is inncorect , if Jesus is the " son of god " then who was Adam and eve ? Who are we ?

Are we not the children of god ?

If Jesus is the son of god then how can he be god and the son of god ?

You don't fully understand the nature of the Trinity do you ?

a reply to: LABTECH767


I am sorry but your inncorect , explain to me the Trinity?

The Trinity tells us that Jesus and the holy spirit are exstentions of god .

So your telling me Jesus is the son of god and god him self ?


Who was Adam & eve ?

a reply to: Nochzwei


Furthermore

It is said that Jesus is God’s son, yet it is also said that Jesus is God. How can one being be both the father and son of iself. And how did God have a human son, or a son that could be seen by humans and interact with humans.- anon
Hi friend,

This is a really tricky question, isn’t it! Many Christians have puzzled over this for many years, so it is pretty normal to struggle to understand how the relationship between God and Jesus works. I’m going to try to handle your questions in reverse order if that’s ok.

So the Bible tells us that Jesus isn’t ‘God’s human son’, rather, that Jesus, who is co-eternal with God (that means that like God, he existed forever) became human. Jesus was like God - eternal and perfect - but he became human so that he could enter into our world and die for humans.

christianity.net.au...

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Well The tree fern explanatin is incorrect, Christ was Spirit of God sent and seperate from him to incarnate as the Son, Now that mean's he is not flesh like you or me but a form of Manifestation that had to be born and incarnate as Flesh but not any Flesh, Flesh made of Spirit, in essence He is Son of God and the Aspect God grant's us to see, remember though he said, Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall SEE GOD, now many who saw him that day where not seeing God but perhaps some where and the purity he described was faith as well.

The seven spirit's of God is more than three though they too are all one in the aspect's of the holy trinity as you reference but the Father is Supreme and therefore the only God, else you are talking about the Seven spirit's of god (the holy spirit), the father and the sun which is nine or three time's three.

When moses asked God at the Burning bush "Who are you", he replied "I AM that I AM", not "WE ARE THAT WE ARE".

God was before the word but created the word before all thing's and through the word he created the universe.
Further than this I shall not try to define God as we are both wrong and we are both right, He is the only one that can define it but I accept every word of Christ and if he tell's me he is God then he is God but as a descendant of Israel on my mother's maternal line I have to only accept the Father as my god in accord with his commandment "Thou shall have no other God but me", so for me Christ is the Begotten son of the Father, The True eternal king and prince of Peace MESSIAN, The Shepherd of Israel and true Rabbi, the Saviour and living Sacrifice for our sin's, The judge, The Resurrection, The High Priest and the living TEMPLE of God but I though I wish to obey him (Do any of us truly do so) must also obey the Commandment, I believe he is sent from and indeed THE incarnation of God's spirit but is seperate and Unique, He obey's the father in all thing's, Confused yet I am.

Lastly I do not Deny the Holy Trinity and Christ walked in the Flesh, his mother Mary was sent to bear him into this world and her own birth was a miracle as her mother and father were too old in that time and should never had been able to but you know the rest of the story.

He took us into him through the sacremant and we are his, we Worship the Father as the living temple by extension through the sacremant of Christ who worship's the Father, we obey him as our king and see God in him as He is The Capstone of the Temple and the True Highest Priest, And non but the high Priest goes beyond the veil of the Temple to minister to God.

When he died for us on the Cross having taken on mortal form the temple veil was Rent in two exposing the empty holy of holy's whith no ark and no throne of God in the form of the mercy seat so no God in israel with the death of Christ, the rock of Golgotha was Cracked (Have a look at Ron Wyatts Ark of the Covenant as I truly believe He was chosen by god to Find it but it is not yet time for it to be Revealed further - the Blood of Christ in the mercy seat and how it was in a cavern where Jeremiah placed it to protect it from the babylonians, the Ark was exactly under where he found a post hole and a crack in the rock with a skull like shape to the rock behind it - a site the Israeli authorty's then bulldozed, after sending some Israeli officials into the cave Wyatte had found they apparently fell dead and the site of that entrance was sealed with a metal plate, infilled and concreted over - a riot erupted amond the palastinians on the temple mount at the rumor that the ark had been found as if Israel had been allowed to approach it and bring it out they would have been forced by there own religious zealots to remove the dome of the Rock and rebuilt the Temple to house is though we now know the dome is not on the site of the Temple but to one side of it with the true site being occupied by ornamental gardens) and ground shook, the sky went dark.

When christ said to them every stone would fall and not a stone would be left atop another he was talking of the stone's of Society and it meant there social structure that they would be cast out of Jerusalem to suffer which indeed came to pass as he had said, he was not talking about the rock and structure of the city though it was sacked then repopulated by non Jew's.

When he rose from Death his body was purified for 40 day's before he ascended into heaven his flesh transfigured back into spirit, he is seated at the right hand of his father as the blood of his sacrifice was also found at the right side of the mercy seat or God's throne on earth, God's right our left looking at it.

Remember though the church herself alway's knew christ was the son of God and Our Saviour and king (though you would not think so when they allowed the so called rule by divine right which is blasphemy as our king is christ and no other), they and even the apostles before them argued about the point, a schism appeared in the church splitting eastern orthodox from western catholic over just this point.

2:190 - Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
2:191- And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

transgressor. transgress. to violate a law, command, moral code, etc.; offend; sin. to pass over or go beyond (a limit, boundary, etc.): to transgress bounds of prudence.
Fitnah: unrest or rebellion, especially against a rightful ruler.
(Definitions taken from Google define – search “define:[any word you would like the definition of]” )

Clearly this verse refers to retaliation in the face of transgression. Not once does it mention infidels nor does it mention attacking without just cause or reason. It does not say to ‘slay the unbelievers’ but rather to slay the transgressors.


9:73 - O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination.
9:123 - O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous.
9:124 - And whenever a surah is revealed, there are among the hypocrites those who say, "Which of you has this increased faith?" As for those who believed, it has increased them in faith, while they are rejoicing.

At first glance, it appears this verse is potentially commanding Muslims to fight against non-Muslims who live amongst them or near to them. However, reading it in more context it becomes clear that these disbelievers are actually the hypocrites mentioned in the next verse. The same disbelievers and hypocrites are mentioned in an earlier verse at the beginning of this discourse with a very similar message. At the time this verse was revealed, these hypocrites were detrimental to a harmonic Muslim society and were actively mixing amongst sincere Muslims. The verse you have quoted is at the end of this discourse and acts to stress the importance of fighting against these internal enemies.


9:4 - Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
9:5 - And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
9:6 - And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

Taken out of context, this verse appears to imply Muslims are to kill polytheists on sight. Looking at the preceding and succeeding verses however, it becomes clear that the polytheists mentioned in verse 5 are ONLY those who break a treaty. Those who do not break treaties are to be protected, not killed. Even then, verse 5 as a whole clearly states to leave those who repent. Furthermore, verse 4 explicitly states to wait until the end of a treaty until any action can be taken, meaning true Muslims would observe any agreements they have made regardless.


9:29– Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

To understand this verse, it is imperative to understand what Jizyah is, its purpose and its benefits to non-Muslims. Jizyah tax is imposed only on able-bodied adult males of military age. It grants non-Muslims exemption from any military service as well as exemption from the Zakat tax which is compulsory for all Muslims. The verse you have quoted commands Muslims to fight those non-Muslims who refuse to pay this tax. Given that Muslims are required to pay the Zakat tax and to complete military service if required, it would be an unfair society if non-Muslims did not have to do either of these things. Therefore, the Jizyah tax simply acts to redress this imbalance and provides parity between all citizens regardless of their religious beliefs.


3:85 – And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.

This verse implies anyone who believes in a religion besides Islam will be punished accordingly in the afterlife. It does not imply anything regarding the treatment of non-Muslims by Muslims, rather it implies their comeuppance is in the Hereafter (life after death).


9:30– The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah ." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?

I see no reference to Jews and Christians labelled as perverts. Nor do I see any reference of ‘fight[ing] them.’ All this verse states is that the Jews and Christians are essentially wrong in their beliefs.


5:32 - Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
5:33 – Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,

This verse does not state to ‘maim and crucify infidels if they criticise Islam.’ Only those who wage war against Islam are to be treated so. In fact, verse 32 clearly demonstrates the value of life in Islam. Note that this verse does not distinguish between the life of a believer and the life of a non-believer.

9:28 – O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.

This verse refers specifically to Masjid al-Haram which is the mosque surrounding the Ka’aba in Mecca. The Ka’aba is the most holy site on the face of the earth for Muslims and is the focus of the pilgrimage every Muslim strives to undertake within their lifetime. The reason polytheists are considered unclean is not physical, rather it is spiritual. There is a clear clashing of ideologies between polytheism and Islam in as much as one of the key aspects of Islam is the belief of Allah having no equal. Polytheism defies this in the belief of several deities. Given that the Ka’aba is the focal point of Islam (it is the direction all Muslims pray towards 5 times a day), it is important for us to keep this site sacred and pure. I can assure you non-Muslims are allowed in mosques and at my local mosque we even encourage them to!


22:19 - These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water
22:20 – By which is melted that within their bellies and [their] skins.
22:21 – And for [striking] them are maces of iron.
22:22 - Every time they want to get out of Hellfire from anguish, they will be returned to it, and [it will be said], "Taste the punishment of the Burning Fire!"

Taken into context, this verse is clearly describing punishments of the afterlife in Hell and is not a command for Muslims to punish unbelievers.


47:4 – So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.

This verse refers to killing disbelievers in battle. It does not say to ‘not hanker for peace with the infidels.’ It is a clear instruction for times of war only.


8:55 – Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are those who have disbelieved, and they will not [ever] believe -
8:56 – The ones with whom you made a treaty but then they break their pledge every time, and they do not fear Allah.
8:57 – So if you, [O Muhammad], gain dominance over them in war, disperse by [means of] them those behind them that perhaps they will be reminded.
8:58 – If you [have reason to] fear from a people betrayal, throw [their treaty] back to them, [putting you] on equal terms. Indeed, Allah does not like traitors.
8:59 – And let not those who disbelieve think they will escape. Indeed, they will not cause failure [to Allah ].
8:60 – And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.
8:61 – And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah . Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.
8:62 – But if they intend to deceive you - then sufficient for you is Allah . It is He who supported you with His help and with the believers
8:63 – And brought together their hearts. If you had spent all that is in the earth, you could not have brought their hearts together; but Allah brought them together. Indeed, He is Exalted in Might and Wise.
8:64 – O Prophet, sufficient for you is Allah and for whoever follows you of the believers.
8:65 – O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.

Quite a lengthy extract, but required to give the full context of the verse in question. This verse, on its own, implies that the Prophet (peace be upon him) should urge Muslims to battle. The prophet (peace be upon him) passed away many centuries ago so clearly this verse is not for Muslims living here and now, rather it is specific to the time it was revealed. Reading the verses before it, it becomes clear that again any violence is only as an act of war against those who break a treaty. In fact, verse 61 clearly states to go with a peaceful solution if the opposing party agrees.


3:28 – Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.

This verse does not forbid Muslims from becoming friends with non-Muslims. I have many non-Muslim friends of different religions, as well as atheist and agnostic friends. It is important to understand the underlying context of this verse in as much as it was revealed at a time when some non-Muslims were keeping close with those Muslims in Medina helping migrating Muslims from Mecca to integrate into society in order to make them (the migrating Muslims) lose faith. Therefore, the verse actually implies to avoid befriending non-Muslims who attempt to make you lose faith and is not a blanket ban on all non-Muslims.


8:12 – [Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."
8:13 - That is because they opposed Allah and His Messenger. And whoever opposes Allah and His Messenger - indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.

This verse refers to a battle that occurred in 624 CE (Battle of Badr). The fact that the verse is in the past tense clearly indicates it is referring to something that had already happened and is therefore not a command to Muslims telling them to ‘terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an.’ Verse 13 refers to pagans of the Quraysh tribe (‘they’).


8:60 - And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged

This verse was already covered in the analysis of 8:65. The verse says to ‘prepare against them,’ and as outlined earlier, ‘them’ refers to those who have broken a treaty.


All of the Quran quotes are taken from the same source (quran.com). Hopefully this helps clear up some misconceptions about Islam. I am not a perfect Muslim nor am I the most knowledgeable, but I will try to answer any questions anyone has regarding Islam. Feel free to PM me!

akibn90,
True Christians will not be able to bring themselves to read whatever you posted above , which also proves that we do not worship the same God. You do realise that, don't you?

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: Nochzwei

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: Nochzwei

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: Nochzwei
You converted?
May the Lord have Mercy on you.
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Yes i did and the lords mercy has been great!

It was the best decsion i ever made in my life.

I was a werck before i converted , i didnt have a real good understanding of life and the beauty of love and compassion.


But now i do , i have learnd these things through Islam may Allah (god) grant everyone the same mercy !

Ameen

I get the impression that you truly have love and compassion for others.
But what about eternal life? Only Jesus can give you that Once you become Saved.

Let's first look at who Jesus was .

By Christan belief he was an "exstention" of god .

Jesus is no longer in the flesh here on earth .
He was present during a time when their was disorder and chaos.

He brought a great message to mankind . and that message was peace and love.

Being that ... As i said Jesus is an "exstention" of god in the flesh , so then I ask you if Muslims worship god alone and Christians worship Jesus (a part of god) do we not then worship the same god ?

No Jesus was the Son of God. Now He is God The Son.
There is still disorder and chaos in the world.
Not only did bring a message of peace and love, but died on the cross for our sins.
He said: I am the truth, the resurrection and the life. No one comes to the Father, but by Me.
I am not so sure If muslims and Christians worship the same God.

This is inncorect , if Jesus is the " son of god " then who was Adam and eve ? Who are we ?

Are we not the children of god ?

If Jesus is the son of god then how can he be god and the son of god ?

You don't fully understand the nature of the Trinity do you ?

On the contrary, I do understand and KNOW the true nature of Trinity.
Since Labtech probably can speak Hebrew, has given you an account of the history of The Bible.

a reply to: LABTECH767

God is Father, Son AND the Holy Ghost
Jesus is (or more precise obtained) Father and Son but NOT the Holy Ghost
Thou shalt have no other Gods before me.

originally posted by: Nochzwei
akibn90,
True Christians will not be able to bring themselves to read whatever you posted above , which also proves that we do not worship the same God. You do realise that, don't you?

Did you read it? And I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean by proving we do not worship the same God?

a reply to: glend

You know I agree but I am constantly being confused and then thinking I understand, but then can a mortal truly comprehend the Lord.

a reply to: LABTECH767

LABTECH767 This interaction reminds me of verse I read recently. JC asked each of his disciples to explain who he was. Only one said I truly cannot explain you. That's the disciple that JC took aside and gave special teachings. You would have been that disciple. Me on the other hand would've been left in the dark saying to myself wtf.

a reply to: glend

Well I am far from worthy to be counted like the disciples of the Lord but like you say even the bible record's such discourse among them, it does not really matter as it is symantec's in that He is definitely there and with God the Father, He Is God the Son but even non christian mystics like a Native American who told how he was shown the Elder's of his people in a vision and above them, above all other's was Jesus and the light of God came from him but he was as far as that mystic said not God but the only true conduit of god and the most godlike of all being's, so He was God in other word's, he was but he was not, in other words God as a Man.

The truth though will be revealed to those who are worthy in his sight and he is the Judge, he has our eternal soul's to save or damn and our decision's, how we live our live's and what we have had to face in them are all measured by him as he alone truly know's each and every one of us from before we were created and he know's what we where meant to be.

He called us but how many have paid more than lip service or lived like he asked them to try to do.

Anyway I am sorry to have entered into this discussion as it is an internal argument that has begun to wage within me in the past few year's though as a small boy I prayed to God and believed in Jesus his son who he had given up to save us which to a child used to make me sad even though he had risen as though he had risen he had to die, the son died and god arose was what it seemed to me but that is probably a gross misunderstanding.

I do know who has the answer though, we are talking about him.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
These discussions are all mute as long as the militants ARE extent. they are hiding amongst the FAITHFUL as a shield.
I understand they don't trust the west and our passed evils are abominous, but in THIS case BOTH GROUPS will be targeted and WE as the poor bastards (and bitches) who actually have to DO that crap would suggest another way before it goes to a higher form of conflict.
AS SOON as the ISIS forms a recognizable state it will present a GORGEOUS target and an IN for the corrupt factions WE don't want them to have.
It would behoove the middle east to FIX this fast.

sorry been offline the last couple days. Just now reading and catching up here. I want to say I agree with you, but the rumors are more than just huge, and every indication is there that this baby is the west's doing.... And... should that be true, it is much easier said than done.

I have had experience fighting against those the west didn't want fought... it was a loosing battle. This one .... who knows... but I have a feeling its the baby many in the west have been dreaming of, and hoping for. Not one of those dreamers were Muslim either...