Study Indicates Socialism Leads to Moral Degeneracy

k, the university of munich conbuctded a study on east germans involving dice, money, and the opportunity to lie in order to improve your odds. ex-commies were more likely to cheat..

After finishing the game, the players had to fill in a form that asked their age and the part of Germany where they had lived in different decades. The authors found that, on average, those who had East German roots cheated twice as much as those who had grown up in West Germany under capitalism. They also looked at how much time people had spent in East Germany before the fall of the Berlin Wall. The longer the participants had been exposed to socialism, the greater the likelihood that they would claim improbable numbers of high rolls.

meh, i hear communist east germany was a miserable #hole where you had to be... creative... to make ends meet. seems like poverty, not ideology is more to blame for cheating cheaters, but what do i know?

is there a possibility socialist ideology would encourage cheating, and if so why?

a reply to: ATODASO

rubbish. Western Europeans and others are doing quite well with it. The US, on the other hand is in a downward spiral with it's evil twin Israel.

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: ATODASO

rubbish. Western Europeans and others are doing quite well with it. The US, on the other hand is in a downward spiral with it's evil twin Israel.

Except for the massive national and EU debts that is.

originally posted by: ATODASO
meh, i hear communist east germany was a miserable #hole where you had to be... creative... to make ends meet. seems like poverty, not ideology is more to blame for cheating cheaters, but what do i know?

is there a possibility socialist ideology would encourage cheating, and if so why?

Socialism doesn't encourage cheating, but it DOES encourage poverty. There's your link

a reply to: ATODASO

Though France is not a socialist country, I tend to think of it as more socialist on a spectrum, than my home country.

I am often struck by their tendency to be lenient at the idea of cheating- as if it is normal human behavior. I have even heard an employer of mine say once, that someone had "that specific kind of stupidity that follows all rules to the letter" (as opposed to an intelligent person that "knows" when to transgress some.)

My own husband and my daughter can be counted on to cheat if we play a board game. The french tell me it is a "latin" thing- which they have in common with the spanish and Italians. They take a certain amount of pleasure in these transgressions.
French psychologists even claim it is a sign of a person having effectively matured, and become their own master (so as not to follow blindly like a child).

That said, they only cheat when it won't hurt anyone else for real. They don't feel that material possessions are that important. Those come and go. Makes me think of the Native American tribes that were famous for their horse stealing skills (like the Cheyenne, I believe).

They have much more repulsion to causing bodily harm, however- theft is rampant, but violent crimes much lower. They get shocked at the idea of killing a robber, even if he breaks into your own house.

Interesting contrast.....

a reply to: ATODASO

Hoover, Nixon and McCarthy were exposed to socialism and they were definitively degenerate so it must be true

After finishing the game, the players had to fill in a form that asked their age and the part of Germany where they had lived in different decades. The authors found that, on average, those who had East German roots cheated twice as much as those who had grown up in West Germany under capitalism. They also looked at how much time people had spent in East Germany before the fall of the Berlin Wall. The longer the participants had been exposed to socialism, the greater the likelihood that they would claim improbable numbers of high rolls.

In the context of Cold War 'East Germany' maybe socialism could be replaced with the term oppression and the results would make greater sense?

In fact new research suggests that the Soviet system inspired not just sarcasm but cheating too: in East Germany, at least, communism appears to have inculcated moral laxity.

Sarcasm? Can you imagine a world where the Soviet Bloc won the Cold War and sarcasm was allowed to run rampant across these fair lands?

originally posted by: Bluesma
a reply to: ATODASO

I am often struck by their tendency to be lenient at the idea of cheating- as if it is normal human behavior.

there's the same lazy fair attitude toward infidelity and the like, right? it's weird that being strong enough to do the right thing even if it's not in your immediate interests is marked off as "immaturity". but then, i'm canadian.

That said, they only cheat when it won't hurt anyone else for real. They don't feel that material possessions are that important. They have much more repulsion to causing bodily harm, however- theft is rampant, but violent crimes much lower. They get shocked at the idea of killing a robber, even if he breaks into your own house.

Interesting contrast.....

yeah, it makes me think of cultures of honor. like, cheating at dice is worse than killing the man that cheats you at dice. i'll buy the immaturity argument in that case.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: ATODASO

In the context of Cold War 'East Germany' maybe socialism could be replaced with the term oppression and the results would make greater sense?

that's my first thought. i mean, i enjoy the benefits of modernate goodly put together socialist policies, so I was confused on the first read-through of the article. it seemed pretty clear to me that culture makes cheaters, not ideology.

Sarcasm? Can you imagine a world where the Soviet Bloc won the Cold War and sarcasm was allowed to run rampant across these fair lands?

and here i thought saying the opposite of what you mean was just good politics, and not for laughs.

a reply to: ATODASO

Study indicates Communism leads to moral degeneracy.

Fixed it for you.

originally posted by: clay2 baraka
a reply to: ATODASO

Study indicates Communism leads to moral degeneracy.

Fixed it for you.

was that sarcasam you gd pinko?!!

Interesting study! I wholeheartedly agree.

I think if people took a step back and really just started observing our society and the individuals in it, they would see the same thing. Sometimes people so badly want something to work that they will deny all faults up into the end. Simply because it sucks to be wrong.

Sometimes I think it is not 1984 that we are turning into but instead it might just be a "Brave New World".

And how does an only-the-best-wins-and-gets-to-live-comfortably ideology affect people?

Just an idle thought from the disaffected fringes...

They have much more repulsion to causing bodily harm, however

So their priorities are more moral than our country where people worship money and objects and are eager to shoot anything that moves for any reason?

I'd rather have someone cheat me at cards than shoot me, but I guess that's just my maturity talking- damn maturity!

a reply to: ATODASO
Doesn't surprise me. Socialism gives with little accountability, so people lose their moral compass and don't know how to live. Whereas in capitalism they're held accountable to their deeds, so morals matter. For example, you don't respect people? Don't help the old lady cross the street? Have a criminal record? Generally, socialism doesn't care. Capitalism does. And the reason it cares is because money isn't just given to you.

originally posted by: brandiwine14


Sometimes I think it is not 1984 that we are turning into but instead it might just be a "Brave New World".

And neither one were socialist. They were both Fascism!

Some one might want to let Chicago in on this information. Oh might want to let the US in on it as well, considering the massive incarceration rate and sending troops to our border to fight a invasion of kids and families. Might want to let congress in on it as well considering there going to sue Obama over not fully implementing obamacare while voting to repeal obamacare 50ish times....

How many in the states were promised a pension only to have it yanked by a court?

What about usury being banned by the bible yet its our standard operating system?

What about cutting food stamps for the defense department? What about our wars without end?

What about the stasi secret police and our modeled surveillance system currently in place?

What about fox news lying in 61% of there news stories? oh sorry this is a foreign owned news entertainment company....

Does America have any moral authority anymore? We kill citizens without due process and we torture and indefinitely detain folks without trial or due process.

Corporations have more rights than a citizen......

a reply to: Bluesma

When the government is taking nearly everything from you to give to someone else, you lie to yourself all the time that those things don't matter. So, the idea of something belonging to someone else, it being theirs because they might have earned it becomes less of a moral barrier to you.

Why should you respect someone else's stuff when your own government refuses to respect yours?

originally posted by: ATODASO
there's the same lazy fair attitude toward infidelity and the like, right? it's weird that being strong enough to do the right thing even if it's not in your immediate interests is marked off as "immaturity". but then, i'm canadian.

Um, yeah, you could say that... it seems more to me like being a bit more realistic? Like they percieve that, people cheat sometimes, whether you condemn it or not- so you might as well as acknowledge it openly and face it.
I've observed that the actual statistics on infidelity are not actually higher over though- people just admit it easier.

When I had my own business, and respected all the laws and regulations to the letter, I was pissed off to find out that when they calculate taxes, for example, they automatically factor in a minimum amount of cheating or lying you must be doing. I wasn't, so of course that rubbed my pride the wrong way. On roads, getting a speed ticket can only happen at a certain level above the speed limit- in other words, it is not expected that you respect it to the letter- it is an indication, and you are expected to not go too far above it. A bit is allowed.

It is like they leave a leeway for the individual to use some common sense of their own, beyond the official laws.

Authorities don't consider their job as doing all the thinking for you- hence the reference to maturity.
Though I find that it more leaves room for the respect of peer pressure- the unofficial, illegitamate power of the collective. People respect more what is socially accepted or not, more than the official rules.
Thus, you get a belief in conformism.

Like drinking is socially accepted, but being drunk is not. The threat of your community condemnation is enough to keep people from drinking too much. That of course doesn't work in a society which nurtures peoples ability to not care what others think.

In short, i often say, the females have more power here- it is the women of the village that determine what is socially acceptable behavior or not, they are in charge of ethics. That is the basis of women getting together to gossip- it is like an unofficial ethics commision, and they decide what they will agree upon enforcing in their community.
In general, women being the makers of humans, they will value the human body and collective more than material objects, which men are more makers of, and individual power.
But that is an unofficial power that foreigners will have more difficulty seeing.

It is also why I tend to consider socialism and communism as "matriarchial systems", in contrast to paternal individualist and capitalist systems.

Your mama teaches you what is right to do, not your government.

This proves nothing but certain germains of certain affiliations like money. Moral degradation is a huge leap. Morals is not all about money. So what if they lied? Its only a game. Morals covers a much wider spectrum than that and ex communism does not equal a representation of all socialism. There are other factors at play a major one of geography. Now im not from germany and not visited but if one part of germany has any differences culturally or econimically it would easily make for different behavior.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Bluesma

When the government is taking nearly everything from you to give to someone else, you lie to yourself all the time that those things don't matter. So, the idea of something belonging to someone else, it being theirs because they might have earned it becomes less of a moral barrier to you.

Why should you respect someone else's stuff when your own government refuses to respect yours?

I don't recognize this sentiment at all here. But then, like I said this is not a communist or even socialist country, really- perhaps you speak of communism?

Here, everyone gets a lot back from the government, so nobody feels "robbed" . They are all getting healthcare in return for their taxes, and monthly benefits just for making children, and to pay for school supplies and clothing (across the board- ALL people, regardless of income level!).

If someone steals your luxury items, that is not serious to them because they feel secure that they will always have the necessities for survival- which is most important.

I think there are a lot of misconceptions going on....